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Old
02-19-2013, 10:22 AM
  #26
viper0220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
replying to you... Every team requires a sense of urgency - if you don't have it, what are you doing?

Some recommendations.

How about Chevy actually doing what TNSE hired him to do. How about building through the draft. That means draft day trades to move down and get additional players who can assist within the next year or two. Drafting underclassmen and hoping they pan out is foolish. Waiting FOUR years for Trouba is ridiculous.

Waiver wire pickups are for lowly teams. We don't need this. We have adequate players in the minors we need to see. Why haven't we seen our $!M AHL players like Jaffray and Machacek? What is Chevy waiting for? Is he waiting for them to bolt like Kulda who was almost promised a shot?

As for trades, only the village idiot trades players when their value is low. Wellwood should have been traded to the Canucks who WANTED him for a 3/4/5th rounder. Now, he's put in and out of the lineup - how do you think he feels? Think he's resigning or will have anything good to say about the organization?

Kane, yes he is our only legit scorer and I love him. But EVERYONE knows he will be run out of town eventually. Why not trade him when his value is high? He's worth 2 first rounders. Right now, TNSE KNOWS which realignment the NHL is going with. Find a trade partner and move on.

Buy out Pavelec at the end of the season and NEVER give 4-5 year deals for any player unless they are a true superstar. A second year starting G should have never been given that salary. We're the laughing stock of the league. Enstrom (a great transition player) and Byfuglien (a known disaster in his own zone but great offensively) could be traded for 1/2/3 rounders to again, restart the program.

Sign Burmi to a 3-4 year deal before he holds out. Consider him gone very soon because he's already ticked at the organization. I'm surprised Noel hasn't tried him in goal yet.

Trade Wheeler while he still has some value. If people say they want to build through the draft, this guy ain't it. He had a great year last year - trade him now before he loses value. You could get a second rounder for him and a decent guy in the AHL.

These are simple ideas to get a winner in 2-3 years not waste time signing guys like Jokinen who I do like but is a veteran player you bring in for a playoff run not for a rebuild. Chevy over-estimated the pieces he thought he had last year. Lots of people did.

So yeah, there are things he can do - but I would prefer to watch a young emerging hockey team like the Oilers than rag tag has been/ never weres that pull on these jets jerseys.

Getting serious about building through the draft can be done but Chevy hasn't done it. He doesn't know how. Trading down means acquiring pieces. If the scouts did their homework it shouldn't be a problem.

Why don't we send the team to Toronto while we are at it? I think the drafting for the Jets will be better than other teams because we have twice as many scouts as other teams. In Atlanta the team was very badly mismanaged and that will take some time to recover from. As for the Trouba pick, he fits right in the gameplan, when this team gets to a contender level, he will be ready. As for the Scheifele pick, I am personally 50-50 on it but the Atlanta scouts had a lot of influence on that pick. We could have had Sean Couturier but we will see in 3-4 years. The Jets have fired a lot of Atlanta scouts and have hired their own. As for what the management is doing they are doing a good job, don't go the Calgary Flames(your way pcanuck) and trade all the young assets for old players. This off season Chevy MUST PUT HIS STAMP ON THIS TEAM, with all of the expiring contracts and a lot of cap space and lots of picks in the top 2 rounds in a deep draft(don't know the exact number), if he does not do anything, then I'd be worried but until then, lets see what happens.


Last edited by viper0220: 02-19-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 10:31 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
replying to you... Every team requires a sense of urgency - if you don't have it, what are you doing?

Some recommendations.

How about Chevy actually doing what TNSE hired him to do. How about building through the draft. That means draft day trades to move down and get additional players who can assist within the next year or two. Drafting underclassmen and hoping they pan out is foolish. Waiting FOUR years for Trouba is ridiculous.

Waiver wire pickups are for lowly teams. We don't need this. We have adequate players in the minors we need to see. Why haven't we seen our $!M AHL players like Jaffray and Machacek? What is Chevy waiting for? Is he waiting for them to bolt like Kulda who was almost promised a shot?

As for trades, only the village idiot trades players when their value is low. Wellwood should have been traded to the Canucks who WANTED him for a 3/4/5th rounder. Now, he's put in and out of the lineup - how do you think he feels? Think he's resigning or will have anything good to say about the organization?

Kane, yes he is our only legit scorer and I love him. But EVERYONE knows he will be run out of town eventually. Why not trade him when his value is high? He's worth 2 first rounders. Right now, TNSE KNOWS which realignment the NHL is going with. Find a trade partner and move on.

Buy out Pavelec at the end of the season and NEVER give 4-5 year deals for any player unless they are a true superstar. A second year starting G should have never been given that salary. We're the laughing stock of the league. Enstrom (a great transition player) and Byfuglien (a known disaster in his own zone but great offensively) could be traded for 1/2/3 rounders to again, restart the program.

Sign Burmi to a 3-4 year deal before he holds out. Consider him gone very soon because he's already ticked at the organization. I'm surprised Noel hasn't tried him in goal yet.

Trade Wheeler while he still has some value. If people say they want to build through the draft, this guy ain't it. He had a great year last year - trade him now before he loses value. You could get a second rounder for him and a decent guy in the AHL.

These are simple ideas to get a winner in 2-3 years not waste time signing guys like Jokinen who I do like but is a veteran player you bring in for a playoff run not for a rebuild. Chevy over-estimated the pieces he thought he had last year. Lots of people did.

So yeah, there are things he can do - but I would prefer to watch a young emerging hockey team like the Oilers than rag tag has been/ never weres that pull on these jets jerseys.

Getting serious about building through the draft can be done but Chevy hasn't done it. He doesn't know how. Trading down means acquiring pieces. If the scouts did their homework it shouldn't be a problem.

Oilers have gotten their players by sucking and getting top 5 picks in 3-4 years in a row(sometimes getting lucky), that is bad losing culture and oilers GM and management has had 4-5 years to get this together, while Chevy and company have only had 2 years(have you thought about that).

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02-19-2013, 10:55 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Totally agree. What did people think we were getting when we bought this team? We were getting the Atlanta Thrashers, which was a slightly better option than an expansion franchise would have been, but not by much.
Thats a ridiculous statement and you know it. Or perhaps you dont and need to look up what an expansion roster really looks like.

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02-19-2013, 11:11 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
Thats a ridiculous statement and you know it. Or perhaps you dont and need to look up what an expansion roster really looks like.
I know what an expansion roster looks like as I have been there and done that.

The Jets this year could very well finish 30th. And if they had been an expansion team instead of the Thrashers they would still finish 30th. At least with an expansion franchise you have an excuse. If the Jets finish 30th this season, then how are they any different than what we would have gotten with an expansion team? No difference, which shows just how poorly the Thrashers were built. Because of how much year 1 was a rush ( and a drastic change for the players as well ) and now with a lockout season, the new Jets management really hasn't had a lot of time to do anything. IMO they are basically still the Thrashers and I am more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for 2-3 seasons. After that, there had better be some improvements starting, but it will be difficult with what the team has to work with.

Like I said, they have a few good core players that I really like, but the rest is just filler.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 02-19-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 11:19 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I know what an expansion roster looks like as I have been there and done that.

The Jets this year could very well finish 30th. And if they had been an expansion team instead of the Thrashers they would still finish 30th. At least with an expansion franchise you have an excuse. If the Jets finish 30th this season, then how are they any different than what we would have gotten with an expansion team? No difference, which shows just how poorly the Thrashers were built.

Like I said, they have good core players, but the rest is just filler.
Then blame it on coaching, chevy, etc but dont say a team with byfuglien, enstrom, ladd, little, wheeler, kane, bogosian, burmistrov, etc is only slightly better than getting an expansion team. If it was an expansion team, people would actually be right complaining that we have third liners on the first line.

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02-19-2013, 11:29 AM
  #31
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pcanuk-

The Oilers are not yet a playoff team. 5-6-3 last in their division, 13th in their conference and 23rd in the league.
Sure they have buckets of talent, but they are still only a couple losses from hanging out with the Jets at the bottom and dare I say, there have been other teams with buckets of talent that never really had the right "it".

There is no wand that KC can wave to make magic happen. Scouting and researching players for a team and then moving on picks is a deliberate chess match. Picks, even first round, are not a sure thing and can be a couple years in development before they are ready. Sure it is exciting when a team trades for a player, especially if they are not doing well during the season, it gives fans hope.
Both Chipman and KC have said they are not going to rush players, and this process will take time.

Relax buddy...saying "Are we there yet? Drive faster" repeatedly didn't work when we were kids. Enjoy the ride, bumps and all.


Last edited by Snot Rocket: 02-19-2013 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Spellun errors
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02-19-2013, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Certain people in this topic have forgotten that this franchise's front office isn't 2 years old yet. We've been through 2 drafts, but nothing that TNSE has done has grown fruit yet. We're all wallowing in ASG's mire of stupidity in terms of drafting and drafting players. Zach Bogosian is 22, and this is his FIFTH year of pro. He may have been ready when he attended training camp, but I was stunned to find that out. I am fully prepared to wait and see with this team, because TNSE has only started to put their stamp on it with the last 2 drafts.

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02-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
Certain people in this topic have forgotten that this franchise's front office isn't 2 years old yet. We've been through 2 drafts, but nothing that TNSE has done has grown fruit yet. We're all wallowing in ASG's mire of stupidity in terms of drafting and drafting players. Zach Bogosian is 22, and this is his FIFTH year of pro. He may have been ready when he attended training camp, but I was stunned to find that out. I am fully prepared to wait and see with this team, because TNSE has only started to put their stamp on it with the last 2 drafts.
100% agreed.

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02-19-2013, 12:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snot Rocket View Post
pcanuk-

The Oilers are not yet a playoff team. 5-6-3 last in their division, 13th in their conference and 23rd in the league.
Sure they have buckets of talent, but they are still only a couple losses from hanging out with the Jets at the bottom and dare I say, there have been other teams with buckets of talent that never really had the right "it".

There is no wand that KC can wave to make magic happen. Scouting and researching players for a team and then moving on picks is a deliberate chess match. Picks, even first round, are not a sure thing and can be a couple years in development before they are ready. Sure it is exciting when a team trades for a player, especially if they are not doing well during the season, it gives fans hope.
Both Chipman and KC have said they are not going to rush players, and this process will take time.

Relax buddy...saying "Are we there yet? Drive faster" repeatedly didn't work when we were kids. Enjoy the ride, bumps and all.
fair enough, appreciate the post!

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02-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #35
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Well I think Trouba was an excellent pick and the lower round guys are looking like decent picks as well. Schiefele in my opinion wasn't the best possible pick the Jets could've made but they certainly could've done worse. There seems to be a lot of defending of that pick around here so I try not to even bring up Couturier or Hamilton. But my take is they could've done better.

This year if the Jets are picking top 10 (which looks very likely) they will be hard pressed to not have a slam dunk selection pool in Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Nicushkin, Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Nurse.

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02-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
These are simple ideas to get a winner in 2-3 years not waste time signing guys like Jokinen who I do like but is a veteran player you bring in for a playoff run not for a rebuild. Chevy over-estimated the pieces he thought he had last year. Lots of people did.

So yeah, there are things he can do - but I would prefer to watch a young emerging hockey team like the Oilers than rag tag has been/ never weres that pull on these jets jerseys.
Have you actually watched the Oilers? Their rebuild is in year 5 and counting, and they're still just an "emerging" hockey team.

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02-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #37
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Have you actually watched the Oilers? Their rebuild is in year 5 and counting, and they're still just an "emerging" hockey team.
That's about to get even further screwed by the salary cap. They'll be able to hold onto the young talent they've acquired to this point and that's it.

They're going to have to wait for that talent to mature and then further wait for young talent (or really cheap vets) on ELC's to be able to fill roster holes before they're relevant. I'd give the Oilers another 5 more years before relevance.

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02-19-2013, 01:24 PM
  #38
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Well I think Trouba was an excellent pick and the lower round guys are looking like decent picks as well. Schiefele in my opinion wasn't the best possible pick the Jets could've made but they certainly could've done worse. There seems to be a lot of defending of that pick around here so I try not to even bring up Couturier or Hamilton. But my take is they could've done better.

This year if the Jets are picking top 10 (which looks very likely) they will be hard pressed to not have a slam dunk selection pool in Mackinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Nicushkin, Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Nurse.

The same Dougie Hamilton that played so soft in front of the net it looked like he was dancing with Burmistrov when Burmistrov scored his second goal of the year from the crease? The same Dougie Hamilton that did not have a very good WJC or Summit Series?

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02-19-2013, 01:35 PM
  #39
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When I think about the shortened season and the fact this year's strangely deep draft will be coming sooner than later, a part of me honestly hopes we finish pretty low. I'm personally just enjoying watching them play.

Nice research into the OP, btw. I think some of the Thrashers fans such as videofarmer have a great pulse on that part of the franchise's history so I am privy to leaning on their side of the discussion regarding draft decisions

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02-19-2013, 01:39 PM
  #40
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In the last two weeks, seeing Kadri perform reinforces the need for patience with Scheifele. He's still junior eligible and some are calling the pick a bust.

If anything, this season has made me MORE patient with our team.

Prediction/Pipe Dream: We will have (2) top 14 picks this year and end up with one of the "big 3" and Nichushkin.

Monahan seems like a TNSE guy though.

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02-19-2013, 01:50 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post

Nice research into the OP, btw. I think some of the Thrashers fans such as videofarmer have a great pulse on that part of the franchise's history so I am privy to leaning on their side of the discussion regarding draft decisions
Agreed. OP was very informative. My only contention with it would have been that rather than finding the most successful guy(s) drafted after the Thrashers, I'd bet there are a lot of other picks that were less successful. The draft is an educated guessing game. Every team has a dud every now and then and really looking over the long term history I think this franchise is doing relatively well. Especially considering Atlanta management's trend of putting guys in to the league earlier than might have been beneficial. That aside the drafting to me looks awfully productive, aside from 2003-2005 (no first rounder in 07).

First rounders for the most part look awfully nice to be honest. Obviously Heatley had his issues and Kovy wanted out but if you pull only the good years you end up with:

00 Heatley
01 Kovalchuk
02 Lehtonen
06 Little
08 Bogosian
09 Kane
10 Burmistrov
11 Scheifele
12 Trouba

Aside from that bump in the middle 03-05 and no first rounder in 07, I sure do like the looks of that. 9/13 success rate (presumed on the last two). Bogo-Kane-Burmi all at age 21-22 and contributing in positive ways? Little playing solid. I'll take it.

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02-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by wpggrown View Post
In the last two weeks, seeing Kadri perform reinforces the need for patience with Scheifele. He's still junior eligible and some are calling the pick a bust.

If anything, this season has made me MORE patient with our team.

Prediction/Pipe Dream: We will have (2) top 14 picks this year and end up with one of the "big 3" and Nichushkin.

Monahan seems like a TNSE guy though.


Ever nice I saw Bob Mackenzie's draft rankings on TSN, I have a gut feeling that we might end with Monahan because he is seems a TNSE kind of player, who do you guys think Monahan compares to?

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02-19-2013, 03:10 PM
  #43
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Ever nice I saw Bob Mackenzie's draft rankings on TSN, I have a gut feeling that we might end with Monahan because he is seems a TNSE kind of player, who do you guys think Monahan compares to?
I haven't see much of him, but most people on HF say Toews, but with less offense.

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02-19-2013, 03:11 PM
  #44
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Ever nice I saw Bob Mackenzie's draft rankings on TSN, I have a gut feeling that we might end with Monahan because he is seems a TNSE kind of player, who do you guys think Monahan compares to?
He's been compared to Toews on a couple of prospect sites. He's big (6'2", around 200lbs already), very smooth skating, and has great hands and vision. I'd be more than happy if he was the Jets pick in the upcoming draft.

This draft is so strong, I'd be happy with ANY top 5 pick, to be honest. Jones, MacKinnon, Monahan, etc.

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02-19-2013, 03:13 PM
  #45
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kingballs -

I am originally from Winnipeg and I love saying that. Getting the Jets back is a cool thing because I went to games when they were good in the 70s and 80s, and even a year or two in the 1990s.

I want to watch the team succeed and I don't think what they did in their first year was successful. We overachieved and I will say it, buckled under the pressure at the end of the season. This year, we've done nothing to fix the problems on the PP, PK, find consistent scoring, fix the massive defensive leaks and address our goaltending. Our coach can't motivate the players and the GM has done very little to make any significant impact.

We're early in the year and we can right the sinking ship. Why repair the holes when the sink is old and broken. It's a terrible analogy I know...

The Oilers were bottom feeders for a reason. They traded away anything and everything to rebuild. Now, they are a playoff team three years later. That whole time, the fans have not abandoned them - they knew what was happening. Winnipeg fans will not abandon the team but they want to see some change, Anything!

Young players are fun to watch. It will kill me if this team gets rid of Burmi, Kane or Bogo without getting a lot in return. They are the only 3 players I think are stars in this league. The rest are simply good to marginal players on any other club.

I want the team to succeed but we are going in the wrong direction. Pavelec should have never got that contract. This offseason will be the determining factor for me (and many others). IF we are re-signing Hainsey to some 1 yr deal and Wheeler to a 3 yr deal, I think this rebuild will take a decade, if it even happens. We are WORSE off now than before the team moved from Atlanta. You may not want to believe it but we've had two drafts and counting .... look at all the other teams playing their draft picks. Teams are getting younger, not older like us. Then Chevy has the nerve to say we're building through the draft to get younger? Really?
Incorrect. Tell us about this off-selling the Oilers did? The Oilers did a lot of what we are doing. The difference is they didn't have a young core of very good players keeping them from 30th 3 years in a row.

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02-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #46
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pcanuk-

The Oilers are not yet a playoff team. 5-6-3 last in their division, 13th in their conference and 23rd in the league.
Sure they have buckets of talent, but they are still only a couple losses from hanging out with the Jets at the bottom and dare I say, there have been other teams with buckets of talent that never really had the right "it".

There is no wand that KC can wave to make magic happen. Scouting and researching players for a team and then moving on picks is a deliberate chess match. Picks, even first round, are not a sure thing and can be a couple years in development before they are ready. Sure it is exciting when a team trades for a player, especially if they are not doing well during the season, it gives fans hope.
Both Chipman and KC have said they are not going to rush players, and this process will take time.

Relax buddy...saying "Are we there yet? Drive faster" repeatedly didn't work when we were kids. Enjoy the ride, bumps and all.
This is also a great post. The Oilers have a lot of blue chip talent but terrible balance. They also have no clue how to win hockey games because they have grown in a losing culture. I would not point at the Edmonton Oilers as a way to build a team -- this coming from an Oilers fan.

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02-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #47
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I haven't see much of him, but most people on HF say Toews, but with less offense.
That's pretty good, I think the offense will come slowly.

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02-19-2013, 03:31 PM
  #48
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He's been compared to Toews on a couple of prospect sites. He's big (6'2", around 200lbs already), very smooth skating, and has great hands and vision. I'd be more than happy if he was the Jets pick in the upcoming draft.

This draft is so strong, I'd be happy with ANY top 5 pick, to be honest. Jones, MacKinnon, Monahan, etc.

My personal feeling(gut feeling) is that we end up with one of Mackinnon, Monahan or Barkov because they all seem like guys that TNSE wants to build around.

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02-19-2013, 03:31 PM
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This is also a great post. The Oilers have a lot of blue chip talent but terrible balance. They also have no clue how to win hockey games because they have grown in a losing culture. I would not point at the Edmonton Oilers as a way to build a team -- this coming from an Oilers fan.
The Oilers have a toxic culture from the top down that is fraught with nepotism. Never a great idea when the Owner and the president are best friends and their wives are best friends as well. Hard to screw it up when you end up bad enough for long enough to get 3 first overall picks in a row as your base to build on but Lowe will give it his best shot I am sure.

The Jets will not be bad enough to be able to land 3 first overall picks anytime soon so they are a very poor example to compare ourselves to.

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02-19-2013, 03:32 PM
  #50
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vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpggrown View Post
In the last two weeks, seeing Kadri perform reinforces the need for patience with Scheifele. He's still junior eligible and some are calling the pick a bust.

If anything, this season has made me MORE patient with our team.

Prediction/Pipe Dream: We will have (2) top 14 picks this year and end up with one of the "big 3" and Nichushkin.

Monahan seems like a TNSE guy though.
If we were to trade Olli and Hainsey, then we might get another 1st round pick.

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