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Loui Eriksson - trade bait?

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:12 PM
  #26
BigG44
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
How do you know it was between Daley and Grossmann? Daley has a limited NTC clause too.

Seems like confirmation bias to me.
Because they're similar and there's limited space in the Top 6. He was aware of the prospects in the system and the fact that they'd be pushing for roster spots soon. You can't re-sign everyone if you expect to give prospects an opportunity in the NHL.

That speculation is far from biased. I like Daley, but I was a big Grossmann fan. Anyone that pays attention to what GM Joe says about mobility and puck movement would come to a similar conclusion.

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02-19-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
He clearly pointed out that he felt Fistric was ready for a bigger role...
I must have missed that part. Was it within the organization or outside it?

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This need to identify how the player came into the organization is going to lose most people. It's an unnecessary distinction. Honestly, who cares? He's not trading players that he thinks can help the team for a final push into the playoffs ... that's a more logical way to look at it. He's not playing favorites. [...]
He didn't think he was hurting the playoff chances by moving Grossmann. Finally, I think an overwhelming majority of people agree Grossmann had more value that Souray ... so they traded the better asset for the better return.
Using your own logic, try figuring out how his penchant for retaining assets essential for a playoff push somehow didn't translate in his firing of a coach that has made the playoffs in every year he's been a head coach, but for 2009 and then replacing him with a coach who hadn't made the playoffs since 2004. He may not have hurt our chances at playoffs by moving this player, but he didn't help it much either by retaining that player.

I think I already said that he either had no ****ing clue or under a false sense of pride to think the squads he put together were playoff-worthy. They might have squeaked in only to get annihilated and that's about it. Retaining Souray for this silly dichotomy of "win now but rebuild for future" has pervaded this organization under his tenure. It is the same mantra that is coercing the coach to play Morrow over __________(insert name) or Robidas over ___________(insert name).

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02-19-2013, 01:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Or maybe he wasn't going to.

Or maybe it'd have made sense if he decided to bring Souray back.
Yeah, we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Has he traded away a player (of consequence) he was responsible for bringing into this organization? No, he let the Dvoraks, Burishes, Sourays, etc. walk for nothing. Henceforth, he'd better deal away any of his Jagrs, Ryders, Whitneys, Roys, etc., in case he doesn't plan on re-signing any of them.
As your list suggests, he hadn't brought anyone onto the team that had much trade value in the first place. What teams would have wanted any of those guys?

Add to that a team in the playoff hunt that was also struggling to meet the cap floor, and I don't see much of a problem with Joe keeping a handful of UFA vets with vet-sized contracts who would have only brought in a handful of 4th round picks if traded.

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02-19-2013, 01:29 PM
  #29
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I don't know how you can bring him up and then say you're not comparing them. Ribs wasn't a part of the future of the team and had only 1 year remaining on his contract. Loui is a part of the core and has 3 years remaining and no reason to believe he wouldn't re-sign when the time comes.

Creating a hypothetical where the Stars get a return they can't possibly refuse doesn't have much meaning since it's not going to happen.

Eriksson is the epitome of a player you never should want to trade. He's exactly what you want a Dallas Star to be.
I get that, but Im not comparing them as players, Im showing an example of dealing a vet for a younger player.

I get all that about Loui, Im not saying he needs to go, but open yoursel to the option.

Im talking about these type of deals:

1990 -
100 point center Denis Savard (age 29) traded by Chicago to Montreal for 28 year old defenseman Chris Chelios.

1990 -
100 point center Dale Hawerchuk (age 27) traded by Winnipeg to Buffalo for 26 year old defenseman Phil Housley.

1995 -
40-50 goal winger Brendan Shanahan (age 26) traded by St.Louis to Hartford for 20 year old defenseman Chris Pronger.

Or

1995 -
Calgary trades 40 goal/90 point center Joe Nieuwendyk (age 28) to Dallas for prospect Jarome Iginla.

2009 -
Boston trades 36 goal winger Phil Kessel (age 21) to Toronto for two 1st round picks (Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton)

2011 -
Philadelphia trades 26 year old 35-45 goal scoring forward to Columbus for 21 year old Jakub Voracek and a 1st ( Sean Couturier)

I know its hypothetical. Of course it is. But the fact is Loui could possibly fetch a return of the likes. Again, not saying he has to go, just exploring options of how this team will turn today in to a better tomorrow. A deal may not be out there, but exploring the prospect is what Im saying Im open to.

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02-19-2013, 01:32 PM
  #30
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Sure I'd trade Loui if the player coming back is Bogosian, Peirtangelo, Yandle, Keith, Seabrook, or Karlsson but since none of that seems likely I doubt they'd move Eriksson.

I'd also consider Dougie Hamilton, Doughty, Gartnner, Myers+Stafford, etc. But the number of players is small and most would require other picks/players to make the deal work. It would have to be a legit superstar for superstar trade and not a project like Goligoski for Neal.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:32 PM
  #31
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Well my view is that the team will ultimately get better by retaining the players they already have who are good while developing additional good players to surround them with. Robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't going to get it done. There's no surplus anywhere on this team to make that strategy valid.

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02-19-2013, 02:15 PM
  #32
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I don't think Loui has hit his overall prime yet. His goal scoring prime has come and gone but I think his best days are still ahead of him.

Then again, there are theoretical trades for him that I would accept. I just don't know if they are realistic.

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02-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Well my view is that the team will ultimately get better by retaining the players they already have who are good while developing additional good players to surround them with. Robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't going to get it done. There's no surplus anywhere on this team to make that strategy valid.
My view is that this team is headed in the right direction as well, but how much better will we be with our current stock of players 25 and under? We have a couple nice pieces but lack true high end talent when looking at the prospect pool. Its at least not very deep. IF the opportunity presents itself to rob Peter who is your present, to pay Paul who is your future, I say you bank on Paul and build him up as much as you can. Soon Peter may not have anything left in his pockets and youll wish you robbed him when his pockets were full. And so on.

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02-19-2013, 02:58 PM
  #34
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This is just... wow..

It's a long wait until Thursday

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02-19-2013, 03:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hairylikebear View Post
I don't think Loui has hit his overall prime yet. His goal scoring prime has come and gone but I think his best days are still ahead of him.

Then again, there are theoretical trades for him that I would accept. I just don't know if they are realistic.
Hard to say. I think yes his goal scoring peak has likely come and gone. That 36 he hit a few years ag looks more and more like an aberration.

Aint like hes not still a heckuva player or anything, but If Im Joe I at least see what deals are out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiedisA View Post
This is just... wow..

It's a long wait until Thursday
So youre saying Loui is untouchable?


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Old
02-19-2013, 03:25 PM
  #36
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Nooooo Loui is way to sexy to trade.

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #37
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We're lucky to have found someone of Jere's skill-set so quick after his retirement. These kind of players don't come around often, and as great as it would be to have a true #1 Dman, I would rather keep my Selke calibre 1st-line Swede any day.

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02-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
No, he let the Dvoraks, Burishes, Sourays, etc. walk for nothing.
You do realize the return for most of these guys would be so little it's not worth it, right?

If we trade every depth player we have for 5th-7ths, that's terrible asset management, whether they're UFAs or not.

Getting upset about not trading players like that is just ridiculous.

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02-19-2013, 03:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by KiedisA View Post
This is just... wow..

It's a long wait until Thursday
Let's not act like he's Crosby. If I were Joe, I wouldn't shop him, but I wouldn't hang up if another GM mentioned his name.

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02-19-2013, 03:31 PM
  #40
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He got value in return for Barch. If it's there, he's going to scrape it.

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02-19-2013, 03:33 PM
  #41
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He got value in return for Barch. If it's there, he's going to scrape it.
Barch was a liability and a different situation than any of those players.

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02-19-2013, 03:50 PM
  #42
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Let's not act like he's Crosby. If I were Joe, I wouldn't shop him, but I wouldn't hang up if another GM mentioned his name.
Id sniff around. Kick some tires for sure. And although hes a really good player, thats right hes not a franchise guy. He shouldnt be untouchable.

I gave examples of the kind of deal Im thinking of. And if something like one of those comes along, why hang up the phone?

Gotta do your diligence as a GM and explore options. A little creativity here is all Im bringing to the table. Morrow and Robidas arent gonna fetch us young high end talent or a high calibre D-man. And I dont want to depend on mid round picks since we're stuck in that trap.

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02-19-2013, 03:59 PM
  #43
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It just seems like an empty sentiment to me.

Sure, let's trade Eriksson, Benn, Kari, and everyone else if we can get better, younger players in return.

You say it's not based on 16 games but I have difficulty believing this topic would be started otherwise.

You can keep kicking the rebuild down the road indefinitely if you want.

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02-19-2013, 05:23 PM
  #44
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It just seems like an empty sentiment to me.

Sure, let's trade Eriksson, Benn, Kari, and everyone else if we can get better, younger players in return.

You say it's not based on 16 games but I have difficulty believing this topic would be started otherwise.

You can keep kicking the rebuild down the road indefinitely if you want.
Benn is our franchise player, he's 23, and he hasn't peaked yet.

Kari is our MVP and a top 5 goalie.

Loui is almost 28, he's likely peaked, and is likely to fetch a good return on the trade market. If he's 24 or 25, or we have a load of young high end talent in the system, or we have other assets worth anything on the market, I'm probably not making this thread. Nobody else is going to help us add young talent which we're currently behind the curve on.

If there's a team whose window is more now and they have say an abundance of young talent (19 -21 year olds or so) to sacrifice then why would we be closed off to any deal? Why wouldn't we want to add more guys that age to grow here with guys like Benn, Dillon, Oleksiak, Eakin, etc?

I gave examples of the kind of deal I'm envisioning us sniffing around for, the kind of deals I think helps more ready this team for when its realistic window is open. You're just ignoring them. So no it's not based on empty sentiment.

Hey if you're happy coasting along just missing the playoffs and grabbing mid round picks, praying they all turn out better than everyone else's early-mid round picks then by all means. I'd much rather try to get ahead of the curve by at least exploring options.


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Old
02-19-2013, 05:35 PM
  #45
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Yes, I'm happy coasting along missing the playoffs. Clearly getting rid of Eriksson will fix that.

There's no reason why Loui can't play for this team for the next decade.

The Stars aren't behind the curve on young talent at all.

You've given no actual examples as far as who you're moving Loui for and why it would make sense for both teams.

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02-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #46
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Eriksson is the type of guy who will play till he's close to 40. I'd rather have him for another decade-plus then risk a trade.

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02-19-2013, 05:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Yes, I'm happy coasting along missing the playoffs. Clearly getting rid of Eriksson will fix that.

There's no reason why Loui can't play for this team for the next decade.

The Stars aren't behind the curve on young talent at all.

You've given no actual examples as far as who you're moving Loui for and why it would make sense for both teams.
I'm not thinking of this season. Obviously dealing Loui for younger players/prospects wouldn't help right now. I'm looking more at stockpiling guys in their early 20s to grow with Benn, Oleksiak, and the others I mentioned. And as much as you think that would set us back, players that age are proving to be able to help out much sooner than later.

I don't think we're any better than average on young talent to be honest. Not much better if we are. And to me, that's not good enough. Decent isn't where I want to be when other teams are decent-good-great.


Another 20-something being traded for youth is Mike Richards to L.A. for Brayden Schenn. I know Richards helped L.A. win a Cup, but Schenn is a darn good young player and I'd do that deal over and over again if I'm Philly. Again, this is what I would do if the same type of player was available (or a good D-man). That's what this is about. I don't need to scour for specific names to make this credible. If there's something out there, pull the trigger. If not, obviously we're in good hands holding on to Loui.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:56 PM
  #48
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Almost all of these past examples you're citing were the result of the veteran getting dealt having some type of onerous contract combined with problems behind the scenes. Neither of which is applicable to Eriksson.

I don't understand why Loui can't grow with Benn.

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02-19-2013, 06:09 PM
  #49
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Almost all of these past examples you're citing were the result of the veteran getting dealt having some type of onerous contract combined with problems behind the scenes. Neither of which is applicable to Eriksson.

I don't understand why Loui can't grow with Benn.
Regardless of the reasoning, the fact is those trades brought ample return.

Like I said I'm fine with Loui sticking around. This isn't a thread about why Loui shouldn't be here or why we don't need him. I'm sure he and Benn can play together and be dynamic for a few more seasons. There's no NEED to unload him. I don't think Loui is Teemu Selanne though where he'll keep the pace in to his 40s. There is a window there. And I'd just rather explore options. I don't think this team is in the position to not explore options. If someone has a Brayden Schenn for us and wants Loui, I do it. If someone has an Alex Goligoski for us and wants Loui, I tell them to stick it up their @zz.

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02-19-2013, 06:11 PM
  #50
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I wouldn't even consider it barring we return a guy like Pietrangelo, Hedman, OEL, etc.

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