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Erik Johnson

View Poll Results: How many points do you think EJ puts up this season?
Less than 25 18 16.36%
25-30 16 14.55%
31-35 39 35.45%
36-40 22 20.00%
More than 40 15 13.64%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:46 PM
  #101
Avs71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Exactly the way I feel about it.

That said, there's only so much one can attribute to Sacco and EJ's defense partners. There are other players on teams with crappy defenses and/or coaches, who have more than 1 point this season. Tyson Barrie has 4 points - with the same crap defensemen and crap coach - in his last 3 games. The same number of points that EJ has put up on the board in his last 30+ games. Sure, EJ has more defensive responsibilities, but 3 games vs. 30+ games' worth of responsibility? I don't think so.
If EJ threw caution to the wind and just played irresponsibly (similar to when he first came here), I'm pretty sure he would have more points. Barrie is pretty weak defensively and definitely makes risky plays which have backfired a few times already. EJ does not have this luxury.. at all.

Look how his partners have played next to him. Hejda all of a sudden thinks he was brought in to be a two way defencemen and starts jumping up in the play all the time. Together they go like -16. Then O'Brien joins EJ. What happens? "Orr'Brien" emerges. Hunwick was the go to offensive guy when playing with EJ too. He always joined the rush. That leaves EJ last guy back all the time, and if he wasn't he looks over and there is O'Brien below the oppositions goal line with him. I don't know a defenceman who can be at all. If he's going to jump up and be involved then he needs someone to sit back for him. If he's going to be the one to sit back all the time, then he should have a good offensive defenceman with him. He doesn't have either luxury. He's been caught in the middle of being the only offensively capable defenceman, but at the same time responsible for being the strong one defensively. He's obviously not Weber or Chara, so this just isn't going to work.

As for your analysis, I don't see how this season was supposed to be any different than lasts. Same coach, ****tier defense. I'll be ready to write him off as a shutdown defenceman once he is still offensively challenged in a new system, with a better partner than someone who would be scratched on 25/30 teams in the league.

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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
EJ hasn't played with a reliable partner since leaving STL. Until he does he's being asked to clean up for his partners, and when he's doing that he can't go out and get involved in the play regularly. Other young dmen are at least given the freedom to go out and attack despite their partners, like Barrie, he's the mistake maker on that pairing and Hejda's focused on cleaning up after him, EJ doesn't get to do that, he's our best dman and Sacco uses him to absorb as many chances against as he can, and EJ's been really good at it, but it's not conducive to scoring points, although we do see EJ's capabilities when he gets mad and imposes himself on the game regardless of whomever else is on the ice. The only thing more he can do is learn to get his shot through to the net, and that's my lone complaint with his play, but even there a better partner would be able to set him up better which may be all the difference he needs.
Good post. Agreed on all points.

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02-19-2013, 01:46 PM
  #102
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Sacco knows that EJ plays his best when he gets big minutes, and he saw that almost derail our tank once before when he made that mistake after the trade, when EJ was one of our last player still doing anything and was trying to singlehandedly win games. And that almost cost us Gabe despite the trade for Tank Commander Elliot, so Sacco refuses to make the same mistakes again. As long as people recognize that Sacco's goal is not to win games, all of his decisions start to make a lot more horrifying sense. Either that or he's just a moron who should've been fired long ago but has stuck around because he's cheap, a loyal company man, and a good fall guy for when the team's ready to compete.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Foppa View Post
I said this in the Duchene thread but EJ needs to be allowed to play real #1 dman minutes so that we can figure out truly what he is, because at this point it's hard to say. I mean we know a few things for sure. When you see him on the ice and the way he moves and his size and how hard he can shoot the puck when he wants to...you know physically he has all the tools. You know he's by far our best defenseman and the lack of him on our blueline is absolutely beyond crippling to our defense. But I still don't think, at 24, we know what he is because he goes out there and plays the same 20 minutes a game that Wilson does and Hejda does and Hunwick does and Barrie does.

I know his partners suck and he's never developed good chemistry with anybody but let him play 25+ minutes a game and deal with all the growing pains that may come with it. But make him the man and give him the minutes...if Sacco leans on him as a guy who absorbs the tough chances against then why on earth is EJ 5th among our defenders in PK time? Let him play 3 or 4 minutes a game on the PP instead of the 2:30 he averages now. I feel like Sacco's need to have a uniform distribution of minutes is stunting EJ's promise and it certainly isn't making any of our other defenders better.

To wit: EJ is 78th in the NHL among defenders in ice time per game.
I couldn't agree more with all of this. Why he doesn't get 25+ minutes a game is mind boggling.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa View Post
I said this in the Duchene thread but EJ needs to be allowed to play real #1 dman minutes so that we can figure out truly what he is, because at this point it's hard to say. I mean we know a few things for sure. When you see him on the ice and the way he moves and his size and how hard he can shoot the puck when he wants to...you know physically he has all the tools. You know he's by far our best defenseman and the lack of him on our blueline is absolutely beyond crippling to our defense. But I still don't think, at 24, we know what he is because he goes out there and plays the same 20 minutes a game that Wilson does and Hejda does and Hunwick does and Barrie does.

I know his partners suck and he's never developed good chemistry with anybody but let him play 25+ minutes a game and deal with all the growing pains that may come with it. But make him the man and give him the minutes...if Sacco leans on him as a guy who absorbs the tough chances against then why on earth is EJ 5th among our defenders in PK time? Let him play 3 or 4 minutes a game on the PP instead of the 2:30 he averages now. I feel like Sacco's need to have a uniform distribution of minutes is stunting EJ's promise and it certainly isn't making any of our other defenders better.

To wit: EJ is 78th in the NHL among defenders in ice time per game.
He was on pace for 24 minutes in the game he got hurt. That would have been his 3rd game over 23 minutes in 4 games. It looked like Sacco was finally ending his trial period with all defencemen getting equal time, and then he goes and gets his bell rung.

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02-19-2013, 01:53 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I dunno, I guess I just don't see things the same way as you do.

So, the Erik Johnson that produced 33 pts in 69 gp as a rookie and 39 points the year after, do you attribute that to LUCK or has his offensive abilities magically disappeared?? Is he unable to do that anymore or does he just NOT have anyone covering him??
*sigh*

My friend, I don't know. I wish I did. When I originally looked at those stats, my eyes lit up, because I think that when the Avs got him (though I always criticized the trade as an overpayment - since day 1), I looked at EJ and all of the individual skillsets he has, I'm thinking "Yes, a 6'4" #1 guy for a decade!". But then I watch his play in the offensive zone, and I simply don't see it. Does EJ have TJ Galiardi-itis (39 points in his second season and has never even had half that since, and is strictly a defensive player now)?

I don't disagree with the sentiment that EJ's defense partners by and large suck. They do. And I also don't disagree that he's the only one out there playing even marginal NHL defense (Hedja's been just OK). But zero goals and 4 points in his last 30+ games? I'm sorry, substandard defensive defensive pairings does not fully explain that sort of extended scoring drought, IMO.

In particular, I don't see good puck movement in the offensive zone, particularly from the point. Nor do I see a shot getting through. Tyson Barrie seems to be able to do these things. Why doesn't EJ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
So, just so I'm not being misinterpreted here, I'm not saying that EJ necessarily will become an offensive dynamo. All I'm saying is that I believe under the right set of circumstances, he can still be a guy who puts up 35-45 points per season all the while playing great defense.
If EJ can consistently score 40-50 points per season, then this trade looks better from the Avs standpoint - not to mention the fact that they'll be a much harder team to beat. But right now, EJ is a sub-20 point per season guy, and if that's what he is, the Avs overpaid for him. As much as I like him, as good as he may be in his own zone, that's overpayment.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:05 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
He was on pace for 24 minutes in the game he got hurt. That would have been his 3rd game over 23 minutes in 4 games. It looked like Sacco was finally ending his trial period with all defencemen getting equal time, and then he goes and gets his bell rung.
it's not mind boggling. Sacco is a moron.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:13 PM
  #107
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
If EJ can consistently score 40-50 points per season, then this trade looks better from the Avs standpoint - not to mention the fact that they'll be a much harder team to beat. But right now, EJ is a sub-20 point per season guy, and if that's what he is, the Avs overpaid for him. As much as I like him, as good as he may be in his own zone, that's overpayment.
Agreed but I think there's more to come with this guy.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:26 PM
  #108
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As much as I would love for the Avs to build of yesterday's game and try to make a run for the playoffs (wishful thinking, I know), looking at the big picture that's probably very, very bad for the team.

Playoffs = Sacco still behind the bench next year.

Obviously the big talk is tanking for a draft pick, but at this point I don't care about another young gun. For me at this point, I just want Sacco gone, no matter the cost.

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02-19-2013, 04:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Avs View Post
As much as I would love for the Avs to build of yesterday's game and try to make a run for the playoffs (wishful thinking, I know), looking at the big picture that's probably very, very bad for the team.

Playoffs = Sacco still behind the bench next year.

Obviously the big talk is tanking for a draft pick, but at this point I don't care about another young gun. For me at this point, I just want Sacco gone, no matter the cost.
not sure why this posted to moved to this thread??? lol

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