HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

B. Schenn

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2013, 05:17 PM
  #126
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
If Mesz can prove he can stay healthy in the last year of his contract I will have no problem signing him in the 2.00-3.00m range. When he's healthy he's easily worth the 4.00m, so if he can prove the ability to stay healthy I'm easily talking to him about staying on as a depth defenseman. If he doesn't take it, then oh well. Good luck to him.

I agree on the amnesty Briere thing at this point. It's the only thing that really makes sense.

Hartnell - Giroux - Read
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn
Laughton - Couturier - Voracek
Rinaldo - Talbot - (Cousins)

Coburn - Grossmann
Schenn - Gustafsson
(Meszaros) - (Gostisbehere)

Bryzgalov

I could live with that lineup, but we still need to find a #1 defenseman.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:21 PM
  #127
Roo Mad Bro
U havin a giggle m8?
 
Roo Mad Bro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
forget, jake, this team is always passing which is my biggest problem with this team, that's why they cant beat the devils or good trap teams, they are always being fancy with the puck, you are telling me that's the way to win?
Yes, the best thing to do against the Devils is dump and chase so the Flyers can just let Brodeur burn them with his puck-handling skills.

Wonderful plan.

Roo Mad Bro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:26 PM
  #128
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If Mesz can prove he can stay healthy in the last year of his contract I will have no problem signing him in the 2.00-3.00m range. When he's healthy he's easily worth the 4.00m, so if he can prove the ability to stay healthy I'm easily talking to him about staying on as a depth defenseman. If he doesn't take it, then oh well. Good luck to him.

I agree on the amnesty Briere thing at this point. It's the only thing that really makes sense.

Hartnell - Giroux - Read
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn
Laughton - Couturier - Voracek
Rinaldo - Talbot - (Cousins)

Coburn - Grossmann
Schenn - Gustafsson
(Meszaros) - (Gostisbehere)

Bryzgalov

I could live with that lineup, but we still need to find a #1 defenseman.
I like that forward group, but I would switch McGinn and Voracek. If you're leaving Couturier with Laughton then that line becomes more of a defensive unit. Putting Voracek on the other wing limits his potential to be an impact offensive player, which I think he can be. McGinn might be better suited to play in that role with the other two.

That D though... yikes. We need a number one terribly moving forward.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:37 PM
  #129
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I like that forward group, but I would switch McGinn and Voracek. If you're leaving Couturier with Laughton then that line becomes more of a defensive unit. Putting Voracek on the other wing limits his potential to be an impact offensive player, which I think he can be. McGinn might be better suited to play in that role with the other two.

That D though... yikes. We need a number one terribly moving forward.
Well...now that we've signed Timonen, I doubt we're going hard after a number #1 this offseason; not that there's a whole lot of options.

The following offseason though (the one we're currently discussing), there is a healthy list currently:

Bouwmeester
Boyle
Phaneuf
(Timonen)
Markov
Pitkanen
Komisarek
Kaberle
Gilbert
(Meszaros)
Kuba
Quincy
Orpik
Salo
Mitchell
Hjalmarsson
Letang
N. Schultz
Tallinder
Girardi
Robidas
Ericsson
Seidenberg
Phillips
Klesla

...followed by a parade of third pairing guys...

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:37 PM
  #130
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I have my doubts about that.
No, that's certain. It's dropping to 64.3 next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
forget, jake, this team is always passing which is my biggest problem with this team, that's why they cant beat the devils or good trap teams, they are always being fancy with the puck, you are telling me that's the way to win?
Going back to last season, shots for/against while playing the Devils is 213-214. We are matching them in shots. That's not the issue. There's more to hockey than just hurling everything on net. Shot quality matters, and passing improves shot quality.

I agree that this team needs to get more shots on net. However, sitting Voracek does nothing to help that...if anything, it would have the opposite effect. Voracek creates shooting opportunities for others. Sitting Voracek, who is also 4th on the team in shots (in addition to creating chances), doesn't help the team shoot more. Especially if he's being sat for Knuble, who has 1.38 shots per game compared to Voracek's 2.29 shots per game.

Edit: If you ignore Voracek's absolutely terrible start to the season, his recent shooting rate is higher. That stat is dragged down by his heinous first 2-3 weeks.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.

Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-19-2013 at 05:43 PM.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:46 PM
  #131
PALE PWNR
Registered User
 
PALE PWNR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,597
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well...now that we've signed Timonen, I doubt we're going hard after a number #1 this offseason; not that there's a whole lot of options.

The following offseason though (the one we're currently discussing), there is a healthy list currently:

Bouwmeester
Boyle
Phaneuf
(Timonen)
Markov
Pitkanen
Komisarek
Kaberle
Gilbert
(Meszaros)
Kuba
Quincy
Orpik
Salo
Mitchell
Hjalmarsson
Letang
N. Schultz
Tallinder
Girardi
Robidas
Ericsson
Seidenberg
Phillips
Klesla

...followed by a parade of third pairing guys...
Do you think its possible Pitt actually lets Letang go? The only way I could see it happening is if they get a real winger to go along with Crosby and don't have the cap space to resign him. I doubt it gets to that though, their defense is horrid without him.

Markov on the other hand I may be interested if he can prove he can be healthy for 2 straight seasons

PALE PWNR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:50 PM
  #132
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Do you think its possible Pitt actually lets Letang go? The only way I could see it happening is if they get a real winger to go along with Crosby and don't have the cap space to resign him. I doubt it gets to that though, their defense is horrid without him.

Markov on the other hand I may be interested if he can prove he can be healthy for 2 straight seasons
I think right now, the players I have the biggest interest in are Letang (obviously but doubt he makes it to FA), Bouwmeester, Hjalmarsson, and Phaneuf.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 05:56 PM
  #133
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,409
vCash: 500
I seriously doubt the Flyers solve their issue for a #1 dman through free agency. Most likely it will come through trade.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:09 PM
  #134
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I seriously doubt the Flyers solve their issue for a #1 dman through free agency. Most likely it will come through trade.
What legitimate expendable assets do we have?

Laughton -
Cousins -
Gustafsson -
Gostisbehere -
McGinn -
1st Round 2013 -
1st Round 2014 -
2nd Round 2013 -
2nd Round 2014 -

Maybe if the Caps do implode we can ask about Green, Alzner, or Carlson.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:11 PM
  #135
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
What legitimate expendable assets do we have?

Laughton -
Cousins -
Gustafsson -
Gostisbehere -
McGinn -
1st Round 2013 -
1st Round 2014 -
2nd Round 2013 -
2nd Round 2014 -
Voracek and Read also probably. I think if the right deal for a defender comes along, Homer will pull the trigger. We can not go long with out one.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:12 PM
  #136
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
What legitimate expendable assets do we have?

Laughton -
Cousins -
Gustafsson -
Gostisbehere -
McGinn -
1st Round 2013 -
1st Round 2014 -
2nd Round 2013 -
2nd Round 2014 -

Maybe if the Caps do implode we can ask about Green, Alzner, or Carlson.
I was going to suggest looking at the Caps. They need centers. I doubt they'd part with Green; as injury prone as he is, he's their best defenseman. Carlson has been struggling this year; outside of the playoffs last year, I've never paid any close attention to him so I can't speak with any authority on his availability or potential.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:24 PM
  #137
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I was going to suggest looking at the Caps. They need centers. I doubt they'd part with Green; as injury prone as he is, he's their best defenseman. Carlson has been struggling this year; outside of the playoffs last year, I've never paid any close attention to him so I can't speak with any authority on his availability or potential.
Honestly,

Coburn - Grossmann
Schenn - Carlson/Green
VET - Gustafsson

would actually be a pretty strong defense; particularly if we have Giroux --> Schenn --> Couturier down the middle as defensively well-rounded centers.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:25 PM
  #138
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
What legitimate expendable assets do we have?

Laughton -
Cousins -
Gustafsson -
Gostisbehere -
McGinn -
1st Round 2013 -
1st Round 2014 -
2nd Round 2013 -
2nd Round 2014 -

Maybe if the Caps do implode we can ask about Green, Alzner, or Carlson.
Alzner isn't what the Flyers need. He won't fill the role of that puck mover that we need to replace Timonen eventually. Carlson's trade value is at its lowest point right now. I think they hold out and see if he can turn it around to the player that he was looking like when he first came into the league. Green is their most talented defenseman and a guy that they've put a lot of time into dealing with his injuries and defensive deficiencies. I highly doubt they move him now that he's seemed to put it all together.

If the Flyers want a number one, they'll have to do it through the draft like most of the league does. In the meantime they'll probably have to find a stop gap guy like Bouwmeester to be the guy until a prospect develops into that role.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:27 PM
  #139
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Alzner isn't what the Flyers need. He won't fill the role of that puck mover that we need to replace Timonen eventually. Carlson's trade value is at its lowest point right now. I think they hold out and see if he can turn it around to the player that he was looking like when he first came into the league. Green is their most talented defenseman and a guy that they've put a lot of time into dealing with his injuries and defensive deficiencies. I highly doubt they move him now that he's seemed to put it all together.

If the Flyers want a number one, they'll have to do it through the draft like most of the league does. In the meantime they'll probably have to find a stop gap guy like Bouwmeester to be the guy until a prospect develops into that role.
This year is a good year to go after defensemen, but we're not going to get another swing at another Dougie Hamilton. Best we can hope for really is a Luca Sbisa, particularly if we're looking for a quick impact.

We might be better off continuing to draft forwards that we can use as trade bait for defenseman. Then we watch Gostisbehere with hopeful eyes.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:44 PM
  #140
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, that's certain. It's dropping to 64.3 next year.
Talking about two yrs from now. I doubt it goes down again


Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
forget, jake, this team is always passing which is my biggest problem with this team, that's why they cant beat the devils or good trap teams, they are always being fancy with the puck, you are telling me that's the way to win?
Devils don't play the trap...so there's that.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:46 PM
  #141
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Talking about two yrs from now. I doubt it goes down again




Devils don't play the trap...so there's that.
Ah yes, it will go up. I think it's set to go up slower than it did before, though. I also think the cap can't ever drop below 64.3 million?

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 06:49 PM
  #142
chinatown81592
Knight of Beavers
 
chinatown81592's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Country: China
Posts: 1,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Ah yes, it will go up. I think it's set to go up slower than it did before, though. I also think the cap can't ever drop below 64.3 million?
Oops Kevin Allen didn't expand on that. But yeh without going back into the CBA the cap can't drop below 64.3 million for the 2013/2014 year.

Edit: http://cdn.agilitycms.com/nhlpacom/P...ms-1-10-13.pdf
Scroll down right before point 7 in the summary
Quote:
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Upper Limit shall never fall below $64.3M during the term of this Agreement and the magnitude of the Payroll Range shall never fall below $16 million and never rise above $28 million (from Lower Limit to Upper Limit).

chinatown81592 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 07:37 PM
  #143
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,976
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Alzner isn't what the Flyers need. He won't fill the role of that puck mover that we need to replace Timonen eventually. Carlson's trade value is at its lowest point right now. I think they hold out and see if he can turn it around to the player that he was looking like when he first came into the league. Green is their most talented defenseman and a guy that they've put a lot of time into dealing with his injuries and defensive deficiencies. I highly doubt they move him now that he's seemed to put it all together.

If the Flyers want a number one, they'll have to do it through the draft like most of the league does. In the meantime they'll probably have to find a stop gap guy like Bouwmeester to be the guy until a prospect develops into that role.
This seems to be a common misconception around here...that top defenders are developed, not traded for/signed. While it is more cost-effective to develop your own #1, a lot of the top defenders in the league have been signed as UFAs or traded for. There are lot of young defensemen out there with #1 POTENTIAL, but that doesn't mean they will ever develop into that or that they will stay with their current team.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 07:42 PM
  #144
bauer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If Mesz can prove he can stay healthy in the last year of his contract I will have no problem signing him in the 2.00-3.00m range. When he's healthy he's easily worth the 4.00m, so if he can prove the ability to stay healthy I'm easily talking to him about staying on as a depth defenseman. If he doesn't take it, then oh well. Good luck to him.

I agree on the amnesty Briere thing at this point. It's the only thing that really makes sense.

Hartnell - Giroux - Read
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn
Laughton - Couturier - Voracek
Rinaldo - Talbot - (Cousins)

Coburn - Grossmann
Schenn - Gustafsson
(Meszaros) - (Gostisbehere)

Bryzgalov

I could live with that lineup, but we still need to find a #1 defenseman.
please no Mez. he's been a nightmare so far. this summer, sign Perry, then package Voracek (who's value may never be higher than it is right now) + Meszaros for a top Dman.

2013-14 Flyers.

Hartnell/Giroux/Perry
Read/Schenn/Simmonds
Laughton/Couturier/Talbot
Rinaldo/Cousins/Sesitito

Timonen/Schenn
Coburn/{new Dman}
Gustafsson/Grossmann

bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #145
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This seems to be a common misconception around here...that top defenders are developed, not traded for/signed. While it is more cost-effective to develop your own #1, a lot of the top defenders in the league have been signed as UFAs or traded for. There are lot of young defensemen out there with #1 POTENTIAL, but that doesn't mean they will ever develop into that or that they will stay with their current team.
That kind of thing is on the decrease in the Cap era...and when those guys do become available, they get pursued by a lot of teams. It's not a sure-fire way to obtain them, and generally by that point they're getting a big cap hit that will last into their decline years...something this team has in abundance, and we are being treated to its effects this season. Relying solely on FA is a bad way to get those guys, especially since you're paying a premium. Being at least partially capable of drafting your own Dmen is more cost effective and provides a safety net if the team doesn't manage to hit a home run every 5-6 years when they need a new #1 FA, because the last #1 FA is aging.

Buying and trading for those guys is certainly possible, but making it the only option is a bad way to go about it.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-19-2013 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Buying, not drafting. I r good at comyunikating
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #146
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This seems to be a common misconception around here...that top defenders are developed, not traded for/signed. While it is more cost-effective to develop your own #1, a lot of the top defenders in the league have been signed as UFAs or traded for. There are lot of young defensemen out there with #1 POTENTIAL, but that doesn't mean they will ever develop into that or that they will stay with their current team.
Suter, B. Campbell, and Chara are about the only ones that I can think of. Chara wasn't who he is today and Ottawa made a choice between him or Redden. Campbell isn't a top flight number one, so he doesn't really fit. Ryan Suter is about the only big name free agent, but Nashville did everything in their power to keep him. It is incredibly difficult to get a number defenseman outside of drafting and developing your own.

Timonen would fit I guess, but don't forget that Nashville also had Weber, Suter, and Hamhuis already in the system.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 07:58 PM
  #147
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
#1 defenseman is such a weirdly abstract thing.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 08:04 PM
  #148
Mgkibbles
Registered User
 
Mgkibbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gilbertsville, Pa
Posts: 2,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Suter, B. Campbell, and Chara are about the only ones that I can think of. Chara wasn't who he is today and Ottawa made a choice between him or Redden. Campbell isn't a top flight number one, so he doesn't really fit. Ryan Suter is about the only big name free agent, but Nashville did everything in their power to keep him. It is incredibly difficult to get a number defenseman outside of drafting and developing your own.

Timonen would fit I guess, but don't forget that Nashville also had Weber, Suter, and Hamhuis already in the system.
Scott Niedermayer too.

Mgkibbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 08:11 PM
  #149
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Scott Niedermayer too.
Ok. So a handful of guys in a thirty team league in over a decade. Point is, it's not as simple as just nabbing one through free agency.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2013, 08:17 PM
  #150
laundryman
Registered User
 
laundryman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 973
vCash: 500
I love that Schenn and Voracek are developing chemistry. It's risky to have 2 young players' development kinda depend on one another, but if they can become a great combination for the future it could be a tremendous 2nd line. There was the idea of sticking either of them on Giroux's wing for the future, but they work so well together that you'd be hard pressed to split them up.

laundryman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.