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Tank or no Tank!

View Poll Results: What should the Caps do?
Tank and trade UFA's 36 43.90%
Tank and re-tool 36 43.90%
Trade futures to right the ship 2 2.44%
Stand pat, hoping they pull it together. 8 9.76%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-19-2013, 11:26 AM
  #76
WetHog
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Ryan Callahan is my idea of a leader, someone worthy of the C on their chest. Does OV hustle like Callahan does game in game out? No.

And I said a couple posts ago that talent is a factor for any successful team, but leadership is what puts teams over the top. If Federov was on the Caps the last 3 years I would maintain the Caps playoff outcome would of been different. Especially in regards to that famous Habs series, or the TB series collapse the following year. OV said it best in regards to Federov:

"He's our leader...He's our best guy in the locker room. He showed it. He's our best guy. He has more experience than anybody in this locker room. He knows how to play like that. He just shows his leadership."

The Caps have needed a presence like that since Federov left. OV needed a presence like that, still does.

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Old
02-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #77
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And yet despite Callahan's leadership the Rangers have only gone further than the caps once and were eliminated twice by them. Also missed the playoffs a year back.

Also, in the playoffs Ovechkin hustles as hard as anyone out there.

Seems Callahan's leadership isn't the cure all for their troubles, as Sather's huge acquisitions/moves every offseason seem to confirm.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:06 PM
  #78
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The UFA's can be replaced and some from within the organization. The one who can't be replaced is Ribero and he needs to be resigned. We gave up too much for him to let him walk. Hendricks can be replaced by Garrett Mitchell who has done well for Hershey this year. Erskine can be replaced too. You have Schilling waiting for time in Hershey, Orlov's hurt, and Kundratek has shown some promise. Selling off assets that can easily be replaced is the best bet. This team isn't going anywhere this year. One or two guys (Orlov and Laich) aren't gonna change this team and especially coming off of long injuries (Green couldn't do it last year)

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
You think OV is a good leader, I do not. Nothing else needs to be discussed.
How's he in the lockerroom?

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02-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #80
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Hope they get "unlucky" for the rest of the year, have good underlying numbers so they can say the system is working but they're still losing. Trade the UFAs... try to sign Ribeiro early, if you can't, trade him if you can get a good return.
Are "they" really going to look at underlying numbers though?


But I basically agree. A Ribeiro extension needs to be explored before the deadline. If they're not close, trade him for probably a nice return. I guess more than anything you can hope the goalies are just terrible all year and then they replace Neuvirth in the off-season or something.

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Old
02-19-2013, 12:34 PM
  #81
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I'm not voting because none of the choices fit my position.

I'm fine with tanking but I definitely would want to resign Ribeiro given what they gave up for him and how he has played, minus his faceoff work which we knew coming in but still. I also don't see any reason to not resign Erskine, Hendricks, or Fehr.

So that leaves Hamrlik, Poti, Crabb, Wolski, and Hillen to deal away and I'm sure they will bring back a windfall.

So that basically makes next year's team very similar to this one just with Forsberg added and the rest of the team one year into Oates' system.

I guess that is a combination of tank and trade away UFAs and stand pat as it doesn't leave much cap room for next year for any real retooling...

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02-19-2013, 12:44 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I'm not voting because none of the choices fit my position.

I'm fine with tanking but I definitely would want to resign Ribeiro given what they gave up for him and how he has played, minus his faceoff work which we knew coming in but still. I also don't see any reason to not resign Erskine, Hendricks, or Fehr.

So that leaves Hamrlik, Poti, Crabb, Wolski, and Hillen to deal away and I'm sure they will bring back a windfall.

So that basically makes next year's team very similar to this one just with Forsberg added and the rest of the team one year into Oates' system.

I guess that is a combination of tank and trade away UFAs and stand pat as it doesn't leave much cap room for next year for any real retooling...
Pretty much my thoughts as well. The UFAs who have value, I'd like to keep. I'd like to move Green and Johansson but this team is built so poorly and the holes are so many that we're stuck.

In a realistic best case scenario the big adds would be a top pick this year, Forsberg and a half season of experience under Oates.

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02-19-2013, 12:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Pretty much my thoughts as well. The UFAs who have value, I'd like to keep. I'd like to move Green and Johansson but this team is built so poorly and the holes are so many that we're stuck.

In a realistic best case scenario the big adds would be a top pick this year, Forsberg and a half season of experience under Oates.
Yeah the problem is though do we really think just basically another year in the system makes this team all that much better? I want to say yes but I'd be far from certain of it.

That still leaves Erskine, Schultz, or Orlov playing on his non preferred side rounding out the top 4. That doesn't instill me with a whole lot of confidence.

I'm rather down on the two young goaltenders at the same time approach but Holtby's recent play has been encouraging I guess.

At this point just to shake that part of the team up I'd consider adding Luongo for Johansson and Neuvirth if Vancouver would pick up say 25% of his salary and add a decent prospect or fairly young player. I'm not thrilled about Luongo even at a $4 mil cap hit for the next 12 years though but at least it makes this a different team.

I don't know...

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02-19-2013, 01:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
How's he in the lockerroom?
Doesn't pick up after himself, leaves wet towels on the floor, leaves cap off of the toothpaste, doesn't resplace spent roll of toilet paper . . .

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02-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
I would find a way to remove the C from OV"s chest that allows OV to save face before trading him. He needs some pressure removed from his shoulders. Removing the C will do that. Free him up to be himself more on and off the ice.

Trading him will have the same affect, so why not try reducing some of OV's responsibilities with the Caps before out right trading him away?
I've gotta say that I think Halpysback is correct: why are we angry with AO? He is what he is. And although I agree with CCF about 99% of the time, there is one issue:

A head coach can work with players to work within a system, but most professional athletes come in knowing the in's & out's of their sports. If they didn't, I doubt they'd make it to the professional level.

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02-19-2013, 01:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
Ryan Callahan is my idea of a leader, someone worthy of the C on their chest. Does OV hustle like Callahan does game in game out? No.

And I said a couple posts ago that talent is a factor for any successful team, but leadership is what puts teams over the top. If Federov was on the Caps the last 3 years I would maintain the Caps playoff outcome would of been different. Especially in regards to that famous Habs series, or the TB series collapse the following year. OV said it best in regards to Federov:

"He's our leader...He's our best guy in the locker room. He showed it. He's our best guy. He has more experience than anybody in this locker room. He knows how to play like that. He just shows his leadership."

The Caps have needed a presence like that since Federov left. OV needed a presence like that, still does.
From what I've seen of Callahan, I think you're right. His attitude is exactly what you want in everyone... even the towel boy.

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02-19-2013, 03:19 PM
  #87
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Stop having this conversation after back to back drubbings of the Devils, and a couple more wins bring the Caps to .500...

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02-19-2013, 03:19 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
I've gotta say that I think Halpysback is correct: why are we angry with AO? He is what he is. And although I agree with CCF about 99% of the time, there is one issue:

A head coach can work with players to work within a system, but most professional athletes come in knowing the in's & out's of their sports. If they didn't, I doubt they'd make it to the professional level.
I am not angry with OV. He is a generational talent. I think trading him would be a huge mistake.

I do, however, believe OV and the Caps would be best served if OV did not have the C on his chest. I think taking the C off OV"s chest would reduce some of the weight on his shoulders. Freeing him up to be more himself on and off the ice.

And I think the Caps would be best served with someone more suitable to wear the C on his chest. A Ryan Callahan type player. Someone that gives maximum effort on both offense and defense. Someone that leads by example. Most importantly, a player that isn't currently on the Caps roster.

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02-19-2013, 03:46 PM
  #89
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Yeah but unless you bring in some obvious captain type from outside the organization how do you take the C off Ovechkin and give it to say Laich?

And I agree, IMO Ovechkin not having the responsibility of being captain would be a good thing but how do you take away the C without him losing face?

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02-19-2013, 03:51 PM
  #90
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I think fans are reading way too much into the Captain pressure. Ovechkin will have the same pressure, C or no C. He's THE Superstar player.

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02-19-2013, 04:10 PM
  #91
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Removing the C will do nothing, the media will still blame him.

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02-19-2013, 04:31 PM
  #92
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Removing the C will do nothing, the media will still blame him.
He's the highest paid player in the league and he's producing like a run of the mill 2nd-line winger.

He shoulders the blame or McPhee does because the whole situation is a disaster.

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02-19-2013, 04:37 PM
  #93
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I want a spinal change on this roster, an express retool a la Flyers. Build around Laich, Backstrom, Carlson, Alzner, Beagle, Holtby. Maybe Brouwer and Orlov if they don't bring back something of more value to the roster, i.e. Ryan O'Reilly. Give the "C" to Laich (Callahan-lite minus the fighting), have him preach about hard work and let his hustle lead the way.

Ovechkin should bring 2 young roster players with upside + high pick, Ribeiro a mid 1st, Green should fetch a young roster player + pick/prospect.
Johansson, Ward, Schultz, Neuvirth, Chimera should in any combination bring back something valuable and the UFA's should be let go if they aren't moved at the deadline.

In the offseason GMGM should try to find character-players and Defenders that can teach the Caps young players how to protect their Goalie!

AND, instill into players the importance of sticking up for each other on the ice!

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02-19-2013, 04:38 PM
  #94
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Removing the C isn't gonna make his linemates finish more.

There's been a bunch of games this year where Ovechkin hustled and generated chances left and right and they were wasted (or mostly wasted) because his linemates couldn't do anything or were not on the same page. If you think a cosmetic change to AO's jersey fixes that I don't know what to tell you.

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02-19-2013, 04:39 PM
  #95
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I want a spinal change on this roster, an express retool a la Flyers. Build around Laich, Backstrom, Carlson, Alzner, Beagle, Holtby. Maybe Brouwer and Orlov if they don't bring back something of more value to the roster, i.e. Ryan O'Reilly. Give the "C" to Laich (Callahan-lite minus the fighting), have him preach about hard work and let his hustle lead the way.
Talk about seeing what you want to see.

Laich really knows how to play the groupies, I'll give him that.

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02-19-2013, 04:51 PM
  #96
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Yeah, give Mr. Mouthpiece the C because you want a "spinal change." That'll pan out really well. Stanley Cup here they come.

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02-19-2013, 05:15 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Talk about seeing what you want to see.

Laich really knows how to play the groupies, I'll give him that.
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Yeah, give Mr. Mouthpiece the C because you want a "spinal change." That'll pan out really well. Stanley Cup here they come.
Is there anyone more suited for it on this roster right now?

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02-19-2013, 05:27 PM
  #98
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Is there anyone more suited for it on this roster right now?
Yes, and that's beside the point. You seem to identify Ovechkin's captaincy as an important fundamental problem. The team's core, in your view, is fundamentally flawed because the captaincy was given to a player who made sense at the time, for arguably the wrong reasons. Why would the solution be to give it to someone who, to you, makes sense because he's the best of the rest, but not necessarily actually good?

The only players on the team with the potential to be decent captains are Backstrom and Alzner (who isn't ready). Really they need someone from the outside.

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02-19-2013, 06:05 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Yes, and that's beside the point. You seem to identify Ovechkin's captaincy as an important fundamental problem. The team's core, in your view, is fundamentally flawed because the captaincy was given to a player who made sense at the time, for arguably the wrong reasons. Why would the solution be to give it to someone who, to you, makes sense because he's the best of the rest, but not necessarily actually good?

The only players on the team with the potential to be decent captains are Backstrom and Alzner (who isn't ready). Really they need someone from the outside.
backstrom? hes a bigger let down than ovechkin

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02-19-2013, 06:05 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Yes, and that's beside the point. You seem to identify Ovechkin's captaincy as an important fundamental problem. The team's core, in your view, is fundamentally flawed because the captaincy was given to a player who made sense at the time, for arguably the wrong reasons. Why would the solution be to give it to someone who, to you, makes sense because he's the best of the rest, but not necessarily actually good?

The only players on the team with the potential to be decent captains are Backstrom and Alzner (who isn't ready). Really they need someone from the outside.
The teams core is not flawed because of Ovechkin being named captain. And i would give it to Laich because he understands what the game's about. Someone might claim he talks the talk but doesnt walk the walk, but never takes a shift off, never opt out of practices, he seems well respected around the league, doesn't lose his temper at the ref's, wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice his body for the team (like Callahan) and those are the kind of signals I would want delivered to "my" team!

Backstrom is not captain-material IMO, he's a fellow swede and by judging from interviews both in Swedish and English he's not the sharpest tool in the box. Alzner, like you said, isn't ready and probably won't be for years to come.

Why isn't Laich a good captain in your opinion?

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