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go down with the ship? or make some moves?

View Poll Results: Trade deadline
Make a trade that may help the team win 25 35.21%
leave the team untouched 46 64.79%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:30 PM
  #51
AntonCH
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This is not the year to trade for top tier talent
If anything we trade for a serviceable gritty big dman
Someone to clear the front of the crease come playoff time
An epic playoff beard would be an added bonus but not a requisite

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Wow, you are easy to please. One conference final in 20 years and you are pleased. More of we fans should be like you......I think.
Not easy to please, but a realist. This isn't the Original 6 anymore. There's not going to be any dynasties anymore. It simply won't and can't happen. It should be our goal to win the Cup every year, but there is no shame in saying losing in the semi-finals was a successful season.

Finishing 4th out of 30 is pretty damned good I would say. We don't have it nearly as bad as fans of some NHL teams out there. Imagine if you were a kid growing up now and being a fan of the Columbus Blue Jackets, or the New York Islanders!

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
If Timmons is so great these past 12 years how come we haven't come close to winning a Cup during this period?
well. 1) drafting , 2) develop the player into and NHLer.

I believe there was a time not too long ago where the habs would have been able to mess up crosby had we drafted him. hardly timmins' fault.

if the team chemistry keeps being that great I wouldn't touch anything ... as long as we improve as the season goes on.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:38 PM
  #54
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well. 1) drafting , 2) develop the player into and NHLer.

I believe there was a time not too long ago where the habs would have been able to mess up crosby had we drafted him. hardly timmins' fault.

if the team chemistry keeps being that great I wouldn't touch anything ... as long as we improve as the season goes on.
So, you feel the players drafted were fine, but not properly coached up.
Certainly a valid point to make. Being a tennis player , I'm not qualified to judge our coaches.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Not easy to please, but a realist. This isn't the Original 6 anymore. There's not going to be any dynasties anymore. It simply won't and can't happen. It should be our goal to win the Cup every year, but there is no shame in saying losing in the semi-finals was a successful season.

Finishing 4th out of 30 is pretty damned good I would say. We don't have it nearly as bad as fans of some NHL teams out there. Imagine if you were a kid growing up now and being a fan of the Columbus Blue Jackets, or the New York Islanders!
You are one patient man, Ryan. Ill bet you are a great father and pretty good husband too.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:44 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
So far NO ONE has answered my question, but rather seem more concerned about my spelling. Was it too hard?
I feel like I'm saying the obvious but a head scout can't come into an organization and make it win a cup just by the strength of his picks. Especially in under 10 years for an org like the habs who was in complete shambles after Houle when Timmins joined.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Are you saying Gainey made him draft players he preferred not to draft?
No, I am saying that some of the talent that Timmins put together that could have been used either on the ice or in packages to other teams, was simply lost through bad trade, incorrect player assessments, etc.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:00 PM
  #58
SouthernHab
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So, you feel the players drafted were fine, but not properly coached up.
Certainly a valid point to make. Being a tennis player , I'm not qualified to judge our coaches.
Timmins is a god here at HF. He is beyond reproach.

And I am not sure of the reason for that undying love.

Timmins has done a very good job of drafting players who make it to the NHL. The problem is that most of them are marginal at best. Yes, he has chosen some winners but the biggest majority are the Chipchuras, Maxwells, Stewarts, D"Agostinis, Higgins' found in the NHL.

Average players with little impact.

I think we need a change. I get hammered every time I say this. However, I do not see a big improvement. Leblanc worries me. So does Nattinen and Avtsin.

That combined with the most inept management for a decade has set this franchise back tremendously. Hamilton is struggling mightily.

One can only hope that his draft picks in the last 3 or 4 years pan out. I grow tired of hoping though.

To the OP, Paul Mara is playing in the AHL and possibly could be available...........oooops. Gauthier left.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:10 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Timmins has done a very good job of drafting players who make it to the NHL. The problem is that most of them are marginal at best. Yes, he has chosen some winners but the biggest majority are the Chipchuras, Maxwells, Stewarts, D"Agostinis, Higgins' found in the NHL.

Average players with little impact.
I don't know how many time this has to be debunked.

Carey Price and Jaroslav Halak are NHL starters.

Mark Streit, McDonagh and PK Subban are all very important for their teams (with quite a few promising prospects waiting in the wings).

Grabovski, Sergei Kostitsyn and Pacioretty are--at the very least--good second liners.

Then you have Galchenyuk and Gallagher looking very good in the NHL and plenty of other prospects waiting for their chance.

That, on top of all the good depth players. Don't forget that he also didn't have very high picks to deal with, often drafting in the 20-30 range.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:49 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I don't know how many time this has to be debunked.

Carey Price and Jaroslav Halak are NHL starters.

Mark Streit, McDonagh and PK Subban are all very important for their teams (with quite a few promising prospects waiting in the wings).

Grabovski, Sergei Kostitsyn and Pacioretty are--at the very least--good second liners.

Then you have Galchenyuk and Gallagher looking very good in the NHL and plenty of other prospects waiting for their chance.

That, on top of all the good depth players. Don't forget that he also didn't have very high picks to deal with, often drafting in the 20-30 range.
Not to be argumentative but I said impact players.

Price and Halak. Yes. Streit is solid but not an impact player. McDonagh and Subban are still too early to tell.

I like Pacioretty but again, not an impact player. Neither is Grabovski or Kostitsyn. They are good NHL players.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher have the potential to be the best picks made by Timmins. Galchenyuk was a no-brainer and Gallagher was a very nice pick.

The problem is that there are far too many players selected by Timmins who have gone nowhere or are just middle of the road NHL players.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:50 PM
  #61
Guy Caballero
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I don't believe this is a Cup-winning core. Then again, all it takes is a hot streak. Look at how incredibly lucky the B's got with a mediocre lineup.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Not to be argumentative but I said impact players.

Price and Halak. Yes. Streit is solid but not an impact player. McDonagh and Subban are still too early to tell.

I like Pacioretty but again, not an impact player. Neither is Grabovski or Kostitsyn. They are good NHL players.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher have the potential to be the best picks made by Timmins. Galchenyuk was a no-brainer and Gallagher was a very nice pick.

The problem is that there are far too many players selected by Timmins who have gone nowhere or are just middle of the road NHL players.
What do you consider an impact player?

Subban has been a top pairing defenceman for the last 2 years. Streit has averaged 53.5 pts over the last 4 seasons and Pacioretty was top 10 in goals scored for LW last year.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:20 PM
  #63
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Would rather we deal vets for picks and prospects. We are not a cup calibre team but we could be in a couple of years.

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02-19-2013, 08:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
What do you consider an impact player?

Subban has been a top pairing defenceman for the last 2 years. Streit has averaged 53.5 pts over the last 4 seasons and Pacioretty was top 10 in goals scored for LW last year.
Its self explanatory, impact. What impact do they have on the game?

Plekanec, Price, Markov, Prust.

Pacioretty is a very good player. He is not there yet. Neither is Subban.

I can give you Streit.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Not to be argumentative but I said impact players.

Price and Halak. Yes. Streit is solid but not an impact player. McDonagh and Subban are still too early to tell.

I like Pacioretty but again, not an impact player. Neither is Grabovski or Kostitsyn. They are good NHL players.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher have the potential to be the best picks made by Timmins. Galchenyuk was a no-brainer and Gallagher was a very nice pick.

The problem is that there are far too many players selected by Timmins who have gone nowhere or are just middle of the road NHL players.
I guess we have a different definition of what an impact player is.

But if you are going to dismiss anyone drafted with a top-5 pick as a no-brainer, then you are taking away a lot of good players from head scouts' resume throughout the league. Don't you then think that Timmins compares pretty well with them?

Also, Galchenyuk was far from a no-brainer. He could've ended up 10th overall. The guy had played 8 unimpressive games before the draft (very understandable, coming back from injury). The injury was a worry. There was very little sample to base a scouting report on. Taking him 3rd overall could've backlashed big time.

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02-19-2013, 09:24 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I guess we have a different definition of what an impact player is.

But if you are going to dismiss anyone drafted with a top-5 pick as a no-brainer, then you are taking away a lot of good players from head scouts' resume throughout the league. Don't you then think that Timmins compares pretty well with them?

Also, Galchenyuk was far from a no-brainer. He could've ended up 10th overall. The guy had played 8 unimpressive games before the draft (very understandable, coming back from injury). The injury was a worry. There was very little sample to base a scouting report on. Taking him 3rd overall could've backlashed big time.
I think that Timmins has done a good job in Montreal.

Its just been too long since we won a Cup and he has had 10 years now.

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02-19-2013, 09:31 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I think that Timmins has done a good job in Montreal.

Its just been too long since we won a Cup and he has had 10 years now.
Price, Halak, Mcdonagh, Subban, pacioretty are impact players.

Keep in mind the sample size is small. If you think it is too early to judge Subban, when that means you are restricting the sample to 2003-2006.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:31 PM
  #68
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kaberle is an obvious "trade if we can".

with Diaz solidifying himself as a regular, hard to see how/where Weber will fit, so he's another guy to move (though i'd love to see the habs get him some ice time and showcase him a bit before they trade him... like the nucks did with hodgson)

i'd move cole if the right deal came along, ditto for bourque and gionta, but with the team winning it would be a blow to the room chemistry that may not be worth it short term unless the return is really significant.

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02-19-2013, 09:57 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I think that Timmins has done a good job in Montreal.

Its just been too long since we won a Cup and he has had 10 years now.
A lot of the assets he has acquired for the Canadiens have returned nothing because of bad, careless management.

There are players all over the league drafted by Timmins being good and useful for other teams, yet they returned nothing of value to us.

The Rangers have been able to acquire Rick Nash using mostly unproven assets, yet we got Scott Gomez out of Higgins and McDonagh. Sergei Kostitsyn, who is playing very well for the Predators, got us nothing. We gave up way too early on Benoit Pouliot (not that I cared myself), which we got in return from Latendresse, another asset that should've had much more value at *some* point in his tenure here in Montreal.

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02-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
A lot of the assets he has acquired for the Canadiens have returned nothing because of bad, careless management.

There are players all over the league drafted by Timmins being good and useful for other teams, yet they returned nothing of value to us.

The Rangers have been able to acquire Rick Nash using mostly unproven assets, yet we got Scott Gomez out of Higgins and McDonagh. Sergei Kostitsyn, who is playing very well for the Predators, got us nothing. We gave up way too early on Benoit Pouliot (not that I cared myself), which we got in return from Latendresse, another asset that should've had much more value at *some* point in his tenure here in Montreal.
I cannot disagree with anything that you posted here.

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02-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #71
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Not to be argumentative but I said impact players.

Price and Halak. Yes. Streit is solid but not an impact player. McDonagh and Subban are still too early to tell.

I like Pacioretty but again, not an impact player. Neither is Grabovski or Kostitsyn. They are good NHL players.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher have the potential to be the best picks made by Timmins. Galchenyuk was a no-brainer and Gallagher was a very nice pick.

The problem is that there are far too many players selected by Timmins who have gone nowhere or are just middle of the road NHL players.
He's done a great job for where we've drafted. We've had two top five picks and the jury is still out on one... the other is great.

We got arguably the best (or close to it) player in the draft with Subban and kicked in that entire draft.

You can't expect impact players when you're always drafting 15th or lower and that's where we've usually been. Timmins has done very, very well with what he's had to work with.

Yeah we haven't won a cup, but it's despite Timmins being here not because of it.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #72
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Make a trade only if it involves players off the roster. I don't want to touch our prospects or picks. Right now we have one too many forwards and defensemen when everybody's healthy.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:07 PM
  #73
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Trade dead wood for picks, but otherwise, keep the team as is, don't trade for rentals, keep the picks and prospects...

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02-19-2013, 10:10 PM
  #74
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We have 4 picks in the top 60 and the best head scout around. This is the opportunity to rebuild our forward stable for years to come. I wouldn't sacrifice it for an unexpected cup run. More often than not, these deals end up biting you in the ass.

Trading some of our depth, or for a good long-term deal, sure why not. But no rental.

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02-19-2013, 10:16 PM
  #75
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Trade dead wood for picks, but otherwise, keep the team as is, don't trade for rentals, keep the picks and prospects...
This.

This team was neutered between 2008 and 2011 by trading picks and prospects for "that little bit extra to put us over the top." In those 4 drafts, we were missing 50% of our picks in the first two rounds. Can you imagine how different our prospect pool would be if Timmins' were a.) allowed to work, or b.) not have his work sabotaged by the GM?

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