We're talking about players from Romanian/Ukranian descent here right? That is the modern version as far as I know of a gypsy. People who settled in Eastern Europe.
Well they are kind of everywhere, hence gypsies right? I'll go on record that this is a bogus category to ask to choose from. There are Roma decendants everywhere, what constitutes as Roma these days? The Romani ethnic groups break into a gazillion different dialects, territorial and cultural groups. I wouldn't know where to begin to call someone Roma unless they came from Romania and told me they were gypsy. They live everywhere from Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, France, Spain, England (with special designation given to Welch Romanis),Brazil, US, Canada and on and on.
Is Milan Lucic Roma? That used to be old Roman gypsy country which is now Croatia. Where do you even begin with such an elusive ethnic group?
Almost half of Europe is "more Western European" than Sweden. Even Prague is further west than Stockholm.
You claimed that "for us Western Europeans" there's no such thing as Central Europe, but that is simply not true. I'm in Western Europe, further west from where you are and I consider Czechia to be part of Central Europe, not Eastern Europe, and Sweden to be part of Northern Europe. I also don't expect everybody in Western Europe to agree with these definitions, in fact I expect people in other countries no to, though I'm sure many do.
Ummmm dude, read any geo-political book and Western European has less to do with geography and more to do with the Iron Curtain and the divide after WW2. Shyte man, Greece is considered Western Europe and that is further East than most of Central Europe like Slovakia.
Scandinavia is indeed considered Western Europe at least by any US standards I studied in university.
I will further add, my Slovakian friends consider themselves, Central Europe which has been a new distinction since the Soviet influence stopped. There's a book called "The Heart of Europe", I suggest you read it. But hey. let this map show you there is a central Europe as defined
There is a long long history between the Roma (Gypsies) and the rest of the ethnic groups in that area. It goes way way back and I believe as North Americans it is not our place to make any commentary on what is prejudice in that neck of the woods. Way too much history for us to use our 2010 outlook on the world.
Ummmm dude, read any geo-political book and Western European has less to do with geography and more to do with the Iron Curtain and the divide after WW2. Shyte man, Greece is considered Western Europe and that is further East than most of Central Europe like Slovakia.
Scandinavia is indeed considered Western Europe at least by any US standards I studied in university.
I will further add, my Slovakian friends consider themselves, Central Europe which has been a new distinction since the Soviet influence stopped. There's a book called "The Heart of Europe", I suggest you read it. But hey. let this map show you there is a central Europe as defined
The above is relatively accurate. The term "Western Europe" can be assessed in various ways, but the most common is culturally and politically. A geographical discussion of what defines and comprises Western Europe is somewhat crude and irrelevant.
Infact, i think Western Europe is more of a political term in historical terms. Culturally it is a little murky, given Britain for instance is somewhat culturally different than many other Western European countries. Even though we are geographically and politically the very definition of "Western European", one cannot say we culturally are remotely similar to countries like Spain, Italy etc. Whatever Greece is like .. it ain't culturally similar to Britain.
So arguments over classings seems somewhat redundant when expanding outside of politics IMO. Europe is a varied, complex area with many different cultures and historical backgrounds. It's unfair to try and group these countries into rigid categories.
The above is relatively accurate. The term "Western Europe" can be assessed in various ways, but the most common is culturally and politically. A geographical discussion of what defines and comprises Western Europe is somewhat crude and irrelevant.
Infact, i think Western Europe is more of a political term in historical terms. Culturally it is a little murky, given Britain for instance is somewhat culturally different than many other Western European countries. Even though we are geographically and politically the very definition of "Western European", one cannot say we culturally are remotely similar to countries like Spain, Italy etc. Whatever Greece is like .. it ain't culturally similar to Britain.
So arguments over classings seems somewhat redundant when expanding outside of politics IMO. Europe is a varied, complex area with many different cultures and historical backgrounds. It's unfair to try and group these countries into rigid categories.
How about this
NATO = Western Warsaw Pact = Eastern
Really, it was a political/ideological identification more than a geography distinction. I know lots of things in Europe has changed since 1991 but more or less, if you went to high school before the Wall fell and after WW2, this is what you were taught and I went to high school before the Wall fell.
Really, it was a political/ideological identification more than a geography distinction. I know lots of things in Europe has changed since 1991 but more or less, if you went to high school before the Wall fell and after WW2, this is what you were taught and I went to high school before the Wall fell.
My degree was in 20th Century History. Not a good decision, however.
Western Europe is a symbolic definition that is definitely less relevant today. I think what many countries share is in Globalisation of certain things, yet culturally, i don't think Western Europe is a very relevant concept.
My degree was in 20th Century History. Not a good decision, however.
Western Europe is a symbolic definition that is definitely less relevant today. I think what many countries share is in Globalisation of certain things, yet culturally, i don't think Western Europe is a very relevant concept.
Mine was US History 20th century. WTF am I doing talking about Europe....
Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary are all Central Europe. You could even go farther and include Slovenia or Austria but the common thought is those four of the Visegrad Group.
The fact that Greece is included in Western Europe I would dare to say speaks volumes about how outdated this Western vs. Eastern Europe divide in the Cold War sense is. Because if you want to talk about today´s situation I´d wager to say that Greece share s much more of the bad stuff that is typical for Eastern European politics for example than it does of Western European tbh.
The fact that Greece is included in Western Europe I would dare to say speaks volumes about how outdated this Western vs. Eastern Europe divide in the Cold War sense is. Because if you want to talk about today´s situation I´d wager to say that Greece share s much more of the bad stuff that is typical for Eastern European politics for example than it does of Western European tbh.
Well, I think this was the point. Someone tried saying Scandinavia was not western Europe because of it's locality. But that wasn't the reason why Europe at one point and time was called western and eastern Europe. As I said it was the way Europe was divided up after the WW2. That's all. No one discounts or at least shouldn't discount how much has changed since the Wall fell. The concept of west and east wasn't even cultural, geographical or whatever; it was...are you with the Soviets or not with the Soviets.
I will further add, my Slovakian friends consider themselves, Central Europe which has been a new distinction since the Soviet influence stopped. There's a book called "The Heart of Europe", I suggest you read it. But hey. let this map show you there is a central Europe
This is exactly my point, "dude", though the concept of central Europe predates the Soviet union, let alone the end of it.
As an Ontarian I really don't know what we even consider Ontario to be. We're no man's land really. Even Quebec no one really considers them "East".
Do you guys really feel the need to be penciled in as such and such, when all that matters are that you're THE BOSS? It's where the power lies, and therefore are some kind of default. That's how i look at it, with my northern european view on things.
Well, I think this was the point. Someone tried saying Scandinavia was not western Europe because of it's locality.
I did not say Scandinavia was or was not western Europe, but it is a fact that many definitions of Western Europe do not indeed include Scandinavia, whether you like it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs
Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary are all Central Europe. You could even go farther and include Slovenia or Austria but the common thought is those four of the Visegrad Group.
Studied at Masaryk University
I'm not sure how "common" this thought really is. It might make sense economically as of now but the idea of Vienna not being in Central Europe is just bizarre.
I did not say Scandinavia was or was not western Europe, but it is a fact that many definitions of Western Europe do not indeed include Scandinavia, whether you like it or not.
VERY VERY VERY few whether you like it or not. The one that gets hung out to dry alot is Finland. But here is a quick goggle.
As you see, Scandinavia is almost always put into the western European maps.
No at all, I can't be bothered to look beyond the 1st line of results but 3 of the first 6 pictures don't include it, while a 4th also includes the likes of Latvia, Estonia or Macedonia. Not exactly compelling evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam
How old are you? You do know western Europe is not geographical right?
It's not only a geographical term but it is also a geographical term. In fact other definitions are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
But hey, if merely being able to name a few countries that used to be in the Eastern bloc makes some students feel like they are knowledgeable, that's fine by me.
No at all, I can't be bothered to look beyond the 1st line of results but 3 of the first 6 pictures don't include it, while a 4th also includes the likes of Latvia, Estonia or Macedonia. Not exactly compelling evidence.
It's not only a geographical term but it is also a geographical term. In fact other definitions are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
But hey, if merely being able to name a few countries that used to be in the Eastern bloc makes some students feel like they are knowledgeable, that's fine by me.
To me Western and Eastern Europe was/is defined geo-politically and not geographically. It seems to most everyone that has been posting that they agree with me, not sure why you are disputing. Why is Greece which is way east considered west? Because they aligned with NATO and not the Warsaw Pact.
And again "HOCKEY" and Guy LaFleur which means the flower.
It's not only a geographical term but it is also a geographical term. In fact other definitions are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
But hey, if merely being able to name a few countries that used to be in the Eastern bloc makes some students feel like they are knowledgeable, that's fine by me.
If I'm not mistaken you are from Slovenia. Does it bug you that people consider Slovenia to be in eastern Europe?
To me Western and Eastern Europe was/is defined geo-politically and not geographically. It seems to most everyone that has been posting that they agree with me, not sure why you are disputing. Why is Greece which is way east considered west? Because they aligned with NATO and not the Warsaw Pact.
It is sometimes considered West. All these terms are ill-defined and there are many conflicting definitions for them, I'm not sure why you can't admit that.
It is sometimes considered West. All these terms are ill-defined and there are many conflicting definitions for them, I'm not sure why you can't admit that.
It is ALWAYS considered Western and Eastern and it is defined by the guidelines I have already given.
Look don't revise history because it is not like it is now, I have clearly stated much about Europe geography has changed since the Wall fell. But from WW2 to 1989, that is how Europe was defined.
It is ALWAYS considered Western and Eastern and it is defined by the guidelines I have already given.
Look don't revise history because it is not like it is now, I have clearly stated much about Europe geography has changed since the Wall fell. But from WW2 to 1989, that is how Europe was defined.
Just because you keep repeating it, doesn't mean it's true. Of course, Cold War politics and the Iron Curtain's prevailing geo-political bifurcation of East and West produced the predominant world-view of Europe for the last half century. But that's simply not the one and only accepted view. Hell, even during the Cold War, this simple dichotomy couldn't entirely and accurately describe the true complexity of the situation (i.e.. non-aligned nations like Yugoslavia, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria belonging firmly to neither East nor West).
There exist countless regions and sub-regions one could use to describe parts of Europe: British Isles, Iberian Peninsula, Balkans, Mediterranean, Scandinavia, Nordic, Baltic, Benelux, Alpine, North Europe, South Europe, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Central Europe, etc. . All of these are fairly widely accepted regions describing different constituent parts of Europe. Obviously, these regions can over-lap and shift depending on context (i.e.. political, economical, cultural, historical, geographical). Regions, by their very nature are not precisly defined political entities, thereby leading to varried interpretations.
Nobody is looking to revise history here. We're just trying to elucidate what's actually quite a simple idea.
Only one person but i just remembered when Jagr said he preferred the culture in Russia versus the US when going to the KHL. Obviously the Czech Republic seem to differ some from eastern countries in the values map i provided, but still, interesting.
Another thought is if it could be a popular thing to do now for many, to distance themselves from Russia, which of course is a good thing politically i mean.
