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Old
02-18-2013, 01:38 AM
  #51
jigsaw99
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lots of bitter cancuks fans. its not like Kassian is that sound defensively. He got demoted by Weise to the 4th line today. Both guy needs work.

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02-18-2013, 02:10 AM
  #52
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
lots of bitter cancuks fans. its not like Kassian is that sound defensively. He got demoted by Weise to the 4th line today. Both guy needs work.
'cept defense hasnt been a problem for Kassian aside from the last couple of games.

Its expected with young guys. Happens even to our vaunted defensive forwards from time to time.

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02-18-2013, 02:38 AM
  #53
VanCanucks14
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
'cept defense hasnt been a problem for Kassian aside from the last couple of games.

Its expected with young guys. Happens even to our vaunted defensive forwards from time to time.
Exactly, it is expected from younger guys but a lot of people seem to be forgetting(or ignoring) that when talking about Hodgson.

Anyways, Hodgson wasn't good here at all defensively and needs to be taught that defense is equally as important. But I'm sure he'll be able to do that. He's already got the offense part down pat and it's only a matter of time when he starts to sort out his defensive problems too.

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02-18-2013, 03:32 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Probably mostly to do with being a young center.
This and his skating to some extent. I wouldn't worry too much, if you force him to respect the defensive game and learn it at the NHL level he will do fine, you can also shelter him so he can maximize his high offensive potential, but you know what you're getting into with his defense.

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02-19-2013, 11:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Was horrible defensively in the AHL too. I don't know that it's just skating, I'm pretty sure it isn't. He cheats a lot to get out of the zone early and seems to treat defensive play as an afterthought. I think it's a matter of getting him to respect that part of the game more so than a matter of teaching him.
I don't know if Cody treats defense as an afterthought as he makes the effort to get back. I do agree that when he was a Canuck, Cody looked like he frequently cheated. I think he did that in part because Cody knew he needed to produce offensively to gain icetime and stay in the lineup. He needed to be defensively responsible to stay in the lineup, but above all else he was there to provide offense.

But I agree with others that Cody's size and speed are likely factors preventing Cody from being a good defensive player. It's the same way with the Sedins. The Sedins are actually good defensive players IMO but they do get caught flat-footed in their own zone and they can't seem to find a way to tie up guys even thought they are right there. If you watch the goals that scored against the Sedins you'll find that they aren't caught out of position. It's the same way with Cody, except Cody can't win the board battles the way Sedins can. When Cody is on the ice for goals against, you'll find that he's actually not caught in a bad position, it's usually due to the fact that he got caught flat-footed or he failed to tie up his man.

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02-19-2013, 12:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
I don't know if Cody treats defense as an afterthought as he makes the effort to get back. I do agree that when he was a Canuck, Cody looked like he frequently cheated. I think he did that in part because Cody knew he needed to produce offensively to gain icetime and stay in the lineup. He needed to be defensively responsible to stay in the lineup, but above all else he was there to provide offense.

But I agree with others that Cody's size and speed are likely factors preventing Cody from being a good defensive player. It's the same way with the Sedins. The Sedins are actually good defensive players IMO but they do get caught flat-footed in their own zone and they can't seem to find a way to tie up guys even thought they are right there. If you watch the goals that scored against the Sedins you'll find that they aren't caught out of position. It's the same way with Cody, except Cody can't win the board battles the way Sedins can. When Cody is on the ice for goals against, you'll find that he's actually not caught in a bad position, it's usually due to the fact that he got caught flat-footed or he failed to tie up his man.
I think a lot of it has to do with the intention to do well defensively. It just isn't there with him. He has to want to defend and not cheat. It has to be in his makeup as a player.

Plus I think he has things "figured out" in the pros. It becomes pretty difficult for a coach to sit a high producing player. As long as he keeps producing... So he's bought into that mindset. It won't be until he isn't producing and is getting lit up defensively, that Ruff will take notice and bench him.


Cody has no base to fall back on.

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02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Plus I think he has things "figured out" in the pros. It becomes pretty difficult for a coach to sit a high producing player. As long as he keeps producing... So he's bought into that mindset. It won't be until he isn't producing and is getting lit up defensively, that Ruff will take notice and bench him.
This is why AV won't even give a kid a chance to produce until they show they can play the right way. It's tougher to reel 'em in later imo.

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02-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #58
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Some Canuck fans seem to take it personal that Cody wanted out of Vancouver. They will never be able to admit that he is a good player. Yeah, he has his weaknesses, but he has a high end plus side. He will develop his defensive game to a point that it won't be a big issue.

I think most Buf fans are happy with the trade, as are most Van fans.

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02-19-2013, 01:16 PM
  #59
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I think when all is said and done, he'll be comparable to Paul Stastny. Paul will never win any defensive awards but as long as he's producing, people won't complain too much.

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02-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
I don't know if Cody treats defense as an afterthought as he makes the effort to get back. I do agree that when he was a Canuck, Cody looked like he frequently cheated. I think he did that in part because Cody knew he needed to produce offensively to gain icetime and stay in the lineup. He needed to be defensively responsible to stay in the lineup, but above all else he was there to provide offense.

But I agree with others that Cody's size and speed are likely factors preventing Cody from being a good defensive player. It's the same way with the Sedins. The Sedins are actually good defensive players IMO but they do get caught flat-footed in their own zone and they can't seem to find a way to tie up guys even thought they are right there. If you watch the goals that scored against the Sedins you'll find that they aren't caught out of position. It's the same way with Cody, except Cody can't win the board battles the way Sedins can. When Cody is on the ice for goals against, you'll find that he's actually not caught in a bad position, it's usually due to the fact that he got caught flat-footed or he failed to tie up his man.
Cody consistently wins board battles in the offensive zone though. He's a bulldog in the offensive zone. As Bleach alluded to, he doesn't have the same attitude in the defensive zone at this point. His determination and commitment to defence is not there yet.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
Some Canuck fans seem to take it personal that Cody wanted out of Vancouver. They will never be able to admit that he is a good player. Yeah, he has his weaknesses, but he has a high end plus side. He will develop his defensive game to a point that it won't be a big issue.

I think most Buf fans are happy with the trade, as are most Van fans.
I don't think it's taking it personally to say that right now Hodgson is very weak defensively. I've read the same from some Buffalo writers as well.

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02-19-2013, 05:51 PM
  #62
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The defensive struggle may come down to inexperience and lack of acceleration skills.

Both can be taught.

When Joe Sakic came into the league, he knew everything about offense but was not a great skater nor reliable checker. But he worked at his weak areas diligently in the off season.

Hodgson is being trained by arguably the best hockey trainer around in Gary Roberts. I think they need a little more speed work to go with the strength work and CoHo will be just fine.

Do they call him CoHo over there?

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02-19-2013, 07:15 PM
  #63
Mitts McCann
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Originally Posted by Yammer View Post
The defensive struggle may come down to inexperience and lack of acceleration skills.

Both can be taught.

When Joe Sakic came into the league, he knew everything about offense but was not a great skater nor reliable checker. But he worked at his weak areas diligently in the off season.

Hodgson is being trained by arguably the best hockey trainer around in Gary Roberts. I think they need a little more speed work to go with the strength work and CoHo will be just fine.

Do they call him CoHo over there?
He's been the same skater since he was drafted and he's 23 years old now. He's not gonna learn to be a better skater unfortunately. He's weak and his stride is short and choppy. Maxed potenital on his stride. He's very good offensively and smart so he'll be a good second line center and pp specialist. But in the grand scheme of things, he isn't a core player. Yes he's been trained by Gary Roberts for a number of years. There's nothing new here.

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02-19-2013, 07:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
He's been the same skater since he was drafted and he's 23 years old now. He's not gonna learn to be a better skater unfortunately. He's weak and his stride is short and choppy. Maxed potenital on his stride. He's very good offensively and smart so he'll be a good second line center and pp specialist. But in the grand scheme of things, he isn't a core player. Yes he's been trained by Gary Roberts for a number of years. There's nothing new here.
I think the Sedins were able to increase their speed later in their careers. It's harder but possible.

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02-19-2013, 07:57 PM
  #65
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Oops.

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Old
02-20-2013, 01:49 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
He's been the same skater since he was drafted and he's 23 years old now. He's not gonna learn to be a better skater unfortunately. He's weak and his stride is short and choppy. Maxed potenital on his stride. He's very good offensively and smart so he'll be a good second line center and pp specialist. But in the grand scheme of things, he isn't a core player. Yes he's been trained by Gary Roberts for a number of years. There's nothing new here.
While i think you're partially correct, in that it's extremely hard to change the stride of a guy who has made it to the NHL. And Hodgson definitely has a choppy and inefficient stride, compounded by his lack of 'length' in the limbs...the stride can still be refined with work and dedication.

There have been plenty of NHLers who were fringe guys with questionable skating who have continually refined their stride and built up their power to the point that they have long and successful NHL careers. There's no reason the same couldn't be true of Hodgson.

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:57 PM
  #67
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I think the Sedins were able to increase their speed later in their careers. It's harder but possible.
That's true and certainly true that Hodgson might be able to do the same. The immediate difference to the comparisons is that the Sedins have worked on it each and every year and every year got better to the point they are passable in the speed department. Hodgson hasn't displayed that yearly improvement. now much of that may simply be that he hasn't been physically healthy enough to truly address that concern until the last 18 months.

We'll see what happens. We'll also see what happens with his ice time now that Ruff has been fired.

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02-20-2013, 03:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by B-rock View Post
Cody consistently wins board battles in the offensive zone though. He's a bulldog in the offensive zone. As Bleach alluded to, he doesn't have the same attitude in the defensive zone at this point. His determination and commitment to defence is not there yet.
This is it exactly. For the most part he seems to be able to win offensive zone board battles, but seems not to care in his own end.

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02-20-2013, 03:10 PM
  #69
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I recall Russ Courtnall talking about how he took power skating training during one off-season. There's a guy I didn't think needed to do that. It's partly about how dedicated you are to that aspect of the game, I suppose.

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