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Do the Habs need a heavyweight enforcer?

View Poll Results: Should the Habs claim Matt Kassian on waivers from Minnesota?
Yes 86 74.78%
No 29 25.22%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:52 PM
  #626
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I will ignore someone on the internet claiming he knows what the players really think but it's all off the record.

Kadri's comments say more about how weak he is mentally than anything else. I'd rather a guy like Gallagher who isn't intimidated to begin with.

I'm not sure what Beregeron or Krecji are doing on your list, but Marchard played the exact same way when he was in junior and Paille had his best seasons by far in Buffalo.

Let me ask you a question. Who on the Habs is would be playing better right now if we had an enforcer?
Its pointless going back and doing a search for YOU but its here on the forum about several players expressing a desire to have an enforcer. Not going to waste my time on that.

And I love your first sentence combined with your last statement. Classic!!!!

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02-19-2013, 08:16 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its pointless going back and doing a search for YOU but its here on the forum about several players expressing a desire to have an enforcer. Not going to waste my time on that.

And I love your first sentence combined with your last statement. Classic!!!!
I noticed you avoided answering the question.

Who on the Habs would be playing better right now if we had an enforcer?

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:21 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I noticed you avoided answering the question.

Who on the Habs would be playing better right now if we had an enforcer?
The smaller guys for one, even if they are playing well enough, they'd move it up a notch with an enforcer behind their backs, as is usually the case.

Just adding Staubitz and White to the daily lineups last season proved this to be factual.

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02-19-2013, 08:36 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Mynameismark View Post
The smaller guys for one, even if they are playing well enough, they'd move it up a notch with an enforcer behind their backs, as is usually the case.

Just adding Staubitz and White to the daily lineups last season proved this to be factual.
So what you think Gionta and Gallagher are playing scared and would score more if someone had their back? What about Diaz would he a ppg player if only we had someone to protect him. Would Desharnais start winning more battles along the boards?

By the way before claiming Staubitz we had a winning percentage of 38%. After picking up Staubitz it was 36%. So it's not factual at all.

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02-19-2013, 08:48 PM
  #630
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I'm surprised at the results of this poll. Unless an enforcer would also be better than our weakest link among forwards, it would be detrimental to the team to have one. This talk about players playing better with an enforcer on the team is a pure myth and all statistical evidence debunks it.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:54 PM
  #631
Et le But
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For all his beloved protection, Kadri still decided to fight a guy twice his size.

Quote:
@DownGoesBrown

Nazem Kadri just fought a 6'6" guy with Colton Orr standing three feet away in case you still believe enforcers are a thing.

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02-19-2013, 09:58 PM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I noticed you avoided answering the question.

Who on the Habs would be playing better right now if we had an enforcer?

OK. I'll answer your question. I feel it will be lost on you but I will do it all the same.

Every single player. Hockey is a team sport and with that, there is a team dynamic that cannot be measured.......but it exists.

For a skill player, having someone fight battles on your behalf builds a tight knit team. Chemistry. Comraderie. Call it whatever, but the stronger the bond between a group of athletes is, the better the team results.

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02-20-2013, 05:52 AM
  #633
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Kadri vs Hedman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9AaL1cg7b0

This fight shows what having a tough team does.

Somehow, a scrap happens between Hedman and Kadri. However, since Toronto is a tough team, they are both surrounded, limiting space and thus limiting damage.

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02-20-2013, 06:27 AM
  #634
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Coincidentally, the only time the Habs won anything of note(like a cup) was when they'd be loaded with toughness, including enforcers.

That's not myth.

You cant win with a bunch of scorers followed up on your 4th line by special team players with some skill that equates to maybe scoring 5 to 7 goals a year and 15 points at most while not bringing any fighting ability to the table.

May as well have the enforcer there.

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02-20-2013, 06:37 AM
  #635
Beendair Donedat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
For all his beloved protection, Kadri still decided to fight a guy twice his size.
Kadri started throwing punches over the top of a pile of players and was immediately helped by Orr who jumped on Hedman's back while Kadri kept punching... Why do you think Kadri was playing so tough? Kadri doesn't come close to fighting Hedman if there's no crowd or Orr's not on the ice. Same thing Kadri did to White a year or so ago... Throw punches at a guy who is down and tied up with someone else. He's only tough in a crowd when the other guy is at a disadvantage.

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02-20-2013, 07:49 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynameismark View Post
Coincidentally, the only time the Habs won anything of note(like a cup) was when they'd be loaded with toughness, including enforcers.

That's not myth.

You cant win with a bunch of scorers followed up on your 4th line by special team players with some skill that equates to maybe scoring 5 to 7 goals a year and 15 points at most while not bringing any fighting ability to the table.

May as well have the enforcer there.
Contrary to what some think we have enforcers NOW.

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02-20-2013, 07:55 AM
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Kadri started throwing punches over the top of a pile of players and was immediately helped by Orr who jumped on Hedman's back while Kadri kept punching... Why do you think Kadri was playing so tough? Kadri doesn't come close to fighting Hedman if there's no crowd or Orr's not on the ice. Same thing Kadri did to White a year or so ago... Throw punches at a guy who is down and tied up with someone else. He's only tough in a crowd when the other guy is at a disadvantage.
It's a sucker punch. Kadri started punching when Hedman was tied up and not looking. He'll get his if he keeps that crap up.

Are the Leafs trying to be one of those teams that start the BS once the game has been decided. Looks like it.

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02-20-2013, 07:59 AM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
OK. I'll answer your question. I feel it will be lost on you but I will do it all the same.

Every single player. Hockey is a team sport and with that, there is a team dynamic that cannot be measured.......but it exists.

For a skill player, having someone fight battles on your behalf builds a tight knit team. Chemistry. Comraderie. Call it whatever, but the stronger the bond between a group of athletes is, the better the team results.
We already have that. Prust, Moen, White, Bouillon will drop the gloves with pretty much anyone and fight with regularity. Gorges, Armstrong, Subban, Nokelainen all fight a few times a season. How many more do we need?

When there's after the whistle scrums all our guys stick up for each other. Hell even Galchenyuk got a penalty in a scrum after Subban's big hit in Carolina. Whatever camaraderie gets created from fighting we already have that base covered. Not too mention fights aren't the only way to build camaraderie.

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02-20-2013, 08:02 AM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We already have that. Prust, Moen, White, Bouillon will drop the gloves with pretty much anyone and fight with regularity. Gorges, Armstrong, Subban, Nokelainen all fight a few times a season. How many more do we need?

When there's after the whistle scrums all our guys stick up for each other. Hell even Galchenyuk got a penalty in a scrum after Subban's big hit in Carolina. Whatever camaraderie gets created from fighting we already have that base covered. Not too mention fights aren't the only way to build camaraderie.
The only thing I would add in that department is maybe a big wingnut like 6'7" 250lbs to beat the tar out of Orr and co and play 15-20 games a year as #14 forward. MacIntyre?

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:07 AM
  #640
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Thing is, I did mention not that long ago than any enforcers would have a spot in my lineup way before Armstrong. To which I still agree. The problem though is that the day Gallagher comes back...Armstrong, for me, is in the pressbox. So an enforcer in the pressbox is not really needed....

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02-20-2013, 08:42 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
More like, a 10-4 record suggests that an enforcer is far from a *need*. It's a subjective want, for some.
In my opinion, it is a need, but not at any price, meaning not just anyone. It needs to be someone who can skate and be responsible in his own end at the very least. Understanding of course that every team not coached by Bob Gainey or Jacques Martin is looking for someone like that.

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02-20-2013, 11:12 AM
  #642
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Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
McCormick (BUF) waived

There is our heavyweight, if MB doesn't claim him he loves smurf hockey and hates toughness.

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02-20-2013, 11:58 AM
  #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
I'm surprised at the results of this poll. Unless an enforcer would also be better than our weakest link among forwards, it would be detrimental to the team to have one. This talk about players playing better with an enforcer on the team is a pure myth and all statistical evidence debunks it.
Your avatar is Blondy from the Leone cowboy movies, this is a board mostly attended by men with all the testosterone included, why would you be surprised that voters would want more toughness?

Who doesn't want more toughness on their team? (even if some think enforcers are useless)

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02-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Very true so how does an enforcer change that. He's not going to be the one scoring the goals, does his presence allow for small forwards to suddenly be able to take on Pronger?
Just look at Orr with the Leafs, he's given them all more courage.

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02-20-2013, 12:03 PM
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Just look at Orr with the Leafs, he's given them all more courage.
You realize, of course, that Orr also played 82 games and racked up 240 PIMs for them the year they finished second-to-last in the league...right?

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02-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You realize, of course, that Orr also played 82 games and racked up 240 PIMs for them the year they finished second-to-last in the league...right?
An enforcer is an added piece, you can have one who does his job well, yet if he's with a crappy team, you cannot change that. But this year he's really the element that stirs the drink, if you will. He's not the only reason they play well but Carlyle's new philosophy where the Leafs are hard to play against plays well with Orr's style of play.

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02-20-2013, 12:18 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
An enforcer is an added piece, you can have one who does his job well, yet if he's with a crappy team, you cannot change that. But this year he's really the element that stirs the drink, if you will. He's not the only reason they play well but Carlyle's new philosophy where the Leafs are hard to play against plays well with Orr's style of play.
The Leafs have also two big tough sob on D. I think that is more important.

We need one like that in Montreal.

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02-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
An enforcer is an added piece, you can have one who does his job well, yet if he's with a crappy team, you cannot change that. But this year he's really the element that stirs the drink, if you will. He's not the only reason they play well but Carlyle's new philosophy where the Leafs are hard to play against plays well with Orr's style of play.
Same Leafs that were initially worse with Carlyle than they were with Wilson last season?

Same Leafs who in 2011-2012 finished on top of the Eastern Conference in October winning seven of 10?

Same Leafs that can never play a full season since the lockout?

The difference in Toronto is their leading goal scorer and their leading point producer: Kadri and Van Riemsdyk. Frattin is also doing a good job making up for the injury to Lupul.

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02-20-2013, 12:25 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You realize, of course, that Orr also played 82 games and racked up 240 PIMs for them the year they finished second-to-last in the league...right?
You do realize that Orr wasn't the only guy that played on that team...right?

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02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #650
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I don't see how the 70's are relevant to the issue. Or 80's. Or 90's. Times have changed across the league, really. (Except possibly in Toronto). Clifford and Westgarth didn't play, Janssen and Boulton didn't play in last year's playoffs for their respective finalist teams. (Though Clifford is a reasonable player and was injured - but they showed they didn't NEED his toughness to win). You know that the enforcers aren't used when "the game matters" in the playoffs. So how are they anything but sideshow regular season entertainment? I like that entertainment too, and enjoyed the crazier days of yore, the brawls, the arms races and Kordic and Normand Baron, it was colourful. But it's just a different league now, I don't see the point in trying to project that nostalgia into a modern reality.

Bigger tougher players who can play are always welcome, of course. McCormick can even play a bit too. I would much rather have him than Kassian, for example. And now we have a little bit of IR wiggle room if we want to be careful with Gallagher's concussion. I'd be marginally for claiming McCormick. If the pro scouts think he's still ok. He has a relatively premium contract for next year too, though. So if whatever took the wind out of his sails last year (injury?) is going to hamper him permanently, and that's what's going on here, then of course that's different. He was much better a couple years ago, and was showing signs of being able to make that kind of regular-shift PK/disturber contribution sort of like Prust does, not just play a pure tough-guy role.

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