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Leafs/Oilers trade proposal

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:03 PM
  #51
broc
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Also, lol at the guys propping Gagner for his fighting.

I think I've heard it all.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:04 PM
  #52
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Sam Gagner is not an upgrade for us on any Leaf center, probably not even our 4th line center, considering how important he is to the PK.

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:11 PM
  #53
topchowda
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Oilers say yes please
TML say ***** off


Gagner > Bozak
Gardiner >> 2nd round pick

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Old
02-19-2013, 04:12 PM
  #54
alphahelix
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Originally Posted by broc View Post
Gagner puts up better offensive #'s- and that's it.

Gagner plays more physical? Is bigger? ...Where do you get this stuff?
Gagner 199 or 200 lbs depending on where you look.

Bozak 195 lbs.

I think that it's safe to say Gagner is bigger. He is built solid.

Frankly, Gagner is underrated and Bozak is overrated. Bozak comes from a proud tradition of overrated Leafs centers, belonging to the Alex Steen, Matt Stajan variety of bubble players. Burke could have traded him in a package for a quality player like Gagner but I don't think Nonis has the chops to pull it off. At the end of the day, Gagner may wind up belonging to the proud Oilers tradition of quality centers run out of town by overzealous and impatient fans. If we move him, we will be justly punished by the hockey Gods.

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Old
02-19-2013, 05:19 PM
  #55
Lessy
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Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
far superior? gagner hasn't scored more than 50 points a season in the NHL and bozak's numbers are almost identical. care to explain how gagner is far superior offensively? because the numbers certainly don't support your claim.

winning faceoffs and playing big minutes on the PK of a team top 10 in GA isn't "HF intangibles". infact, those stats are quite tangible. maybe you should look up what that word actually means.
If Gagner was getting gravy minutes alongside Phil Kessel I think it's fair to say he'd have cracked 50 by now. If you think Bozak is a better offensive player or has comparable offensive upside to Gagner than so be it.

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02-19-2013, 05:24 PM
  #56
Lessy
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Player A: RFA at seasons end, better offensive player, more upside, younger

Player B: UFA at seasons end, better defensive player, better on faceoffs, older, bigger

If player A wasn't named Sam Gagner this wouldn't even be up for debate. Gagner is clearly more valuable than Bozak although Gardiner is much more valuable than a 2nd so the Leafs pass.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
No way.

Wouldn't trade Bozak for Gagner.

Gardiner for a 2nd is an instant hang up.
hahaha you kidding right?? what bozak had last season as a 25 year old player, gagner had in his first season as a 18 year old! get over your team honestly, i agree the trade is a little unreasonable, but you can't say you won't trade bozak for Gagner! I would make it Gagner + 1st + a prospect like Curtis Hamilton for Gardiner and Bozak.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:32 PM
  #58
14eberle
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Originally Posted by broc View Post
Also, lol at the guys propping Gagner for his fighting.

I think I've heard it all.
Well is true, fighting doesn't just get defined by who the tougher player is, is who is ready to enter a fight for the sake of his team mates or getting the crowd going, and if a 5'11 gagner does that, you gotta give him credit for it! he's a team player all the way through. And lets just wait till the end of season, perhaps then your interest in gagner might rise, especially if his play continues!

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:38 PM
  #59
14eberle
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Can anyone explain to me why Bozak is supposedly significantly worse than Gagner?

Gagner has put up 41-49 points in each of his first five full years in the league. Bozak apears to be settling in at a scoring pace of roughly the same ~45 points a season (career average of .55 PPG). Sure, Gagner is off to a better pace this year, but he has five previous years of trending in the same range. Bozak plays a much better defensive game, has slightly more size, and is infinitely better at face offs (57% vs 41%)

Maybe you would give a slight value bonus to Gagner in a trade because of age, potential, and contract control, but when it came to a player on your team RIGHT NOW, Bozak is better.
Here's an explanation: using your stats for gagner being roughly 41-49 points for last five season, wanna explain to me how many points bozak has over the same 5 seasons, and the age difference??? when bozak was 23 he had 32 points with a -29 rating in 82 games, guess what gagner is 23 and already has 15 points in 12 games! so clearly gagner has better offensive output than bozak, that should be non debatable. I understand the value bozak posseses for Toronto, but honeslty saying he's comparable in a trade right now is ridiculous.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 14eberle View Post
what bozak had last season as a 25 year old player, gagner had in his first season as a 18 year old!
And then he proceeded to barely improve past that.

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:03 PM
  #61
topchowda
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
And then he proceeded to barely improve past that.
NHL.com > stats > individuals > # 22

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:23 PM
  #62
TOGuy14
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Originally Posted by 14eberle View Post
Here's an explanation: using your stats for gagner being roughly 41-49 points for last five season, wanna explain to me how many points bozak has over the same 5 seasons, and the age difference??? when bozak was 23 he had 32 points with a -29 rating in 82 games, guess what gagner is 23 and already has 15 points in 12 games! so clearly gagner has better offensive output than bozak, that should be non debatable. I understand the value bozak posseses for Toronto, but honeslty saying he's comparable in a trade right now is ridiculous.
Bozak did have 32 points at age 23, you are right, but you conveniently left out the part where that was his rookie season

Gagner has 5 seasons in the 40 point range, and one short sample of a higher offensive output but he is being judged only on the season that suits your stats in this comp. Cherry pick those numbers though. If we are playing this game though, Nazem Kadri clearly has a much higher offensive output ability than RNH or Eberle. Hence, Kadri > RNH or Eberle

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:35 PM
  #63
Oilin Toronto
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
i love the 2nd round pick........

if oilers want any of: gardiner, rielly, kadri they will have to give up atleast one of: hall, nugent-hopkins, eberle, yakupov.

sorry to burst your bubble but not even close.
This is the funniest post I've seen in a long time.

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:39 PM
  #64
Joey Moss
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Leafs say no.

I'm not getting these Bozak >/= Gagner comments though.

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Sam Gagner is not an upgrade for us on any Leaf center, probably not even our 4th line center, considering how important he is to the PK.
Posts like these are just trying to start a fight. What an ignorant post.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:00 PM
  #66
doubledown99
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Gagner is better than any centre the Leafs have.

I find it so hilarious that every non Leafs players like Gagner have no value yet their fans think they will be trading MacArthur, Gunnarson, Grabovski for 1st rd picks this year or players like RoR or Perry

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:05 PM
  #67
TOGuy14
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Posts like these are just trying to start a fight. What an ignorant post.
To be fair it would be hard to justify his integration into our team right now, just on his awful faceoff % alone.

Carlyle leans heavily on zone matchups and controlling possession of the puck. With a 41% FO%, Carlyle would probably have him on the end of the bench, offensive talents or not.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:08 PM
  #68
DousedInOil
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
To be fair it would be hard to justify his integration into our team right now, just on his awful faceoff % alone.

Carlyle leans heavily on zone matchups and controlling possession of the puck. With a 41% FO%, Carlyle would probably have him on the end of the bench, offensive talents or not.
If Carlyle would bench his leading scoring game after game for having a 41% face off record, he shouldn't be an NHL coach.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:13 PM
  #69
TOGuy14
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
If Carlyle would bench his leading scoring game after game for having a 41% face off record, he shouldn't be an NHL coach.
Sometimes just scoring isn't really enough, at least if you are a liability going the other way. Look at the Barons in the AHL when they had Schultz / Hall / RNH etc. They were all top 5 scoring in the league, but the team wasn't even .500 from what I recall.

Gagner isn't even average at FOs, he is actually horrendous at 41%, which means you could never start him in the defensive zone, which would disrupt Carlyle's matchups and lines

So yes, Carlyle would have a case to keep Gagner on the bench.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Is bozak not a centre?
I meant to write a better center. Which Bozak is not.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:31 PM
  #71
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Seems like everyone is thinking that current Sam Gagner is the same player as he was as a rookie. Most of the criticisms we're seeing are no longer valid. He has improved a lot.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:38 PM
  #72
Puritania
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
This is the funniest post I've seen in a long time.
No doubt eh? First page has a post saying Gardiner would cost RNH and now apparently Gardiner, Rielly, or Kadri are worth RNH+Eberle.

If it was one of our guys with the concussion issues that Gardiner is having he'd be injury prone and not worth the risk to acquire. HF is awesome and consistent.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #73
BlueBaron
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Gagner is better than any centre the Leafs have.

I find it so hilarious that every non Leafs players like Gagner have no value yet their fans think they will be trading MacArthur, Gunnarson, Grabovski for 1st rd picks this year or players like RoR or Perry
That would be a great statement if it had any basis in reality. Tim Connoly who is on our farm team is probably a better player. Grabovski is certainly a better player. Kadri is looking like he will be a better player. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Lets agree to disagree. We think he wouldn't make our team and it seems unlikely the Leafs would trade for him, so how about you all tell yourselves how great he is and we let this thread die.

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Old
02-19-2013, 08:54 PM
  #74
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Sam Gagner is going nowhere.

Edmonton + Bozak - Gagner = Worst group of centers in the 13/14 season.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Sam Gagner is going nowhere.

Edmonton + Bozak - Gagner = Worst group of centers in the 13/14 season.
Edmonton = Worst group of centres in the 13/14 season.

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