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Flames - Don't reload...rebuild

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Old
02-20-2013, 12:41 AM
  #26
Bluesman91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
Maybe Cole + 1st + lesser prospect, but not Cole + Rattie + 1st. That's just way too much imo.
Yeah would have to be someone from Peoria rather than Rattie if adding a first

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02-20-2013, 12:42 AM
  #27
Remember2004
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Maybe Cole + 1st + lesser prospect, but not Cole + Rattie + 1st. That's just way too much imo.
What would we need to add for 1st, Cole and Rattie?

Giordano+?

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02-20-2013, 12:44 AM
  #28
stlblues9
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What would we need to add for 1st, Cole and Rattie?

Giordano+?
A center? Stajan or Backlund? I don't quite remember what Stajans contract is though, isn't 4 something?

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02-20-2013, 12:45 AM
  #29
TheHudlinator
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A center? Stajan or Backlund? I don't quite remember what Stajans contract is though, isn't 4 something?
3.5 cap hit for this year and next but only makes 2.5 next year.

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02-20-2013, 12:48 AM
  #30
stlblues9
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3.5 cap hit for this year and next but only makes 2.5 next year.
Cole + Rattie + 1st + D'agostini

For

Gio + Backlund/Stajan + Sarich

??

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02-20-2013, 12:53 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
3.5 cap hit for this year and next but only makes 2.5 next year.
I'd be willing to retain a little of Stajan's salary, to add the first. Say Gio + Stajan@2.5 cap hit for Cole, Rattie + 1st

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02-20-2013, 12:56 AM
  #32
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
Cole + Rattie + 1st + D'agostini

For

Gio + Backlund/Stajan + Sarich

??
Cole + Rattie + 1st + D'agostini
for
Gio + Stajan + Sarich

done

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02-20-2013, 01:11 AM
  #33
stlblues9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Cole + Rattie + 1st + D'agostini
for
Gio + Stajan + Sarich

done
Meh, probably a little too much value to Calgary but I like it. Solves the Blues first pairing LHD problem and gives them a third line center to move Steen to the wing. Also gives them a vet presence and depth defenseman for the playoffs and late season push.

Perron Backes Oshie
Tarasnko Berglund Stewart
Mcdonald Stajan Steen
Sobotka Nichol Reaves
Schwartz

Giordano Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Redden/Russel Polak
Sarich

Halak
Elliott
Allen

Looks good to me.

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02-20-2013, 02:10 AM
  #34
PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
Meh, probably a little too much value to Calgary but I like it. Solves the Blues first pairing LHD problem and gives them a third line center to move Steen to the wing. Also gives them a vet presence and depth defenseman for the playoffs and late season push.

Perron Backes Oshie
Tarasnko Berglund Stewart
Mcdonald Stajan Steen
Sobotka Nichol Reaves
Schwartz

Giordano Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Redden/Russel Polak
Sarich

Halak
Elliott
Allen

Looks good to me.
Definitely too much value to Calgary. D'Agostini and a 1st for Stajan + Sarich? That's fairly pointless for the Blues. I get that people were trying to balance what they perceived as imbalance in the Cole + Rattie for Giordano idea, but there is literally no reason from the Blues' perspective to balance like that. Add a 5th round pick if necessary, not a whole weird 1st + D'Ags for Stajan + Sarich addition. When you trade to get younger you add younger talent. Giordano > Cole, obvs, but they're both roster players and the difference is a high end prospect. Not a high end prospect AND a first, that is utterly ridiculous.

The alternative proposal to Cole + Rattie would be Cole + 1st for Giordano. Calgary's pick. Either load up on 1st rounders to help the rebuild or pluck a prospect who's been dominant for two years since his draft and has a proven chemistry with one of Calgary's prized prospects. Either Cole/1st or Cole/Rattie is fine by me, but Blues fans value Rattie VERY highly.

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02-20-2013, 02:16 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Cole + Rattie + 1st + D'agostini
for
Gio + Stajan + Sarich

done
lol not a chance

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02-20-2013, 02:17 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Definitely too much value to Calgary. D'Agostini and a 1st for Stajan + Sarich? That's fairly pointless for the Blues. I get that people were trying to balance what they perceived as imbalance in the Cole + Rattie for Giordano idea, but there is literally no reason from the Blues' perspective to balance like that. Add a 5th round pick if necessary, not a whole weird 1st + D'Ags for Stajan + Sarich addition. When you trade to get younger you add younger talent. Giordano > Cole, obvs, but they're both roster players and the difference is a high end prospect. Not a high end prospect AND a first, that is utterly ridiculous.
Thats the point We gotta recover somehow after taking it from behind after that Phaneuf trade. I wish Sutter notified the 28 other GM's that Phanuef was available besides doing this sneaky s*** I remember another GM saying they would have liked to know that he was available for trade can't remember who though.

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:48 AM
  #37
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Expires at the deadline so he can be moved. I would imagine he waives now as he isn't playing here.
I thought he just returned from injury. Has he been a healthy scratch?

Also ... who else has a similar status on theirN TC/NMC?

It would help with proposals/value/availability to nail this down.

Iginla
Cammalleri
Tanguay
Stajan
Glencross
Bouwmeester
Wideman
Giordano
Babchuk (expires at 2013 deadline)
Sarich (expires Dec 31, 2013)
Kiprusoff (expired already?)

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:48 AM
  #38
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Flames need a proper rebuild, it wouldn't be a bad draft year to sell off some of the older guys to stockpile 1st and 2nd rounders.

The Flames prospect pool isn't that impressive either, Feaster needs to either do a full out rebuild or keep at what he's doing right now, which is going to end up putting him in a rebuild mode anyway. If Iginla leaves and Kipper decides to call it quits, the team will need a new identity.

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Old
02-20-2013, 03:40 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Thats the point We gotta recover somehow after taking it from behind after that Phaneuf trade. I wish Sutter notified the 28 other GM's that Phanuef was available besides doing this sneaky s*** I remember another GM saying they would have liked to know that he was available for trade can't remember who though.
Yes but realistically if what you're looking for on here is fan bases to make deals with you where the understanding going in that it's lopsided for Calgary because Calgary needs it to be ... well, don't really need to finish that thought do I?

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02-20-2013, 03:46 AM
  #40
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Flames could probably get a 1st at the deadline for Cammalleri if they take some salary back. What playoff team wouldn't want him?

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02-20-2013, 04:39 AM
  #41
stlblues9
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Definitely too much value to Calgary. D'Agostini and a 1st for Stajan + Sarich? That's fairly pointless for the Blues. I get that people were trying to balance what they perceived as imbalance in the Cole + Rattie for Giordano idea, but there is literally no reason from the Blues' perspective to balance like that. Add a 5th round pick if necessary, not a whole weird 1st + D'Ags for Stajan + Sarich addition. When you trade to get younger you add younger talent. Giordano > Cole, obvs, but they're both roster players and the difference is a high end prospect. Not a high end prospect AND a first, that is utterly ridiculous.

The alternative proposal to Cole + Rattie would be Cole + 1st for Giordano. Calgary's pick. Either load up on 1st rounders to help the rebuild or pluck a prospect who's been dominant for two years since his draft and has a proven chemistry with one of Calgary's prized prospects. Either Cole/1st or Cole/Rattie is fine by me, but Blues fans value Rattie VERY highly.
I agree with everything you said. The original deal they asked was Cole, Rattie, 1st. I thought if they added a center it might even it out a little bit. It would give St. Louis a first pairing d to play with Pietrangelo and a center to move Steen back to the wing. The reason I added D'agostini and Sarich is nothing more than throw ins. D'agostini is worth more than Sarich but he has to be traded. He just doesn't fit this team and I think he needs to be moved somewhere where he can play.

Like I said, it is probably too much value, but I look at it as St. Louis gaining 2 roster spots they need and some depth on D and only losing 1 roster player (Cole). I know D'agostini should be considered one but he just isn't playing, and really shouldn't be playing. If we gain Stajan or Backlund, it puts him even further back on the depth chart. He's too good to sit in the press box every night though.

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02-20-2013, 04:59 AM
  #42
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I agree with everything you said. The original deal they asked was Cole, Rattie, 1st. I thought if they added a center it might even it out a little bit. It would give St. Louis a first pairing d to play with Pietrangelo and a center to move Steen back to the wing. The reason I added D'agostini and Sarich is nothing more than throw ins. D'agostini is worth more than Sarich but he has to be traded. He just doesn't fit this team and I think he needs to be moved somewhere where he can play.

Like I said, it is probably too much value, but I look at it as St. Louis gaining 2 roster spots they need and some depth on D and only losing 1 roster player (Cole). I know D'agostini should be considered one but he just isn't playing, and really shouldn't be playing. If we gain Stajan or Backlund, it puts him even further back on the depth chart. He's too good to sit in the press box every night though.
It was just that when they asked for Cole + Rattie + 1st for Giordano that they were getting way too greedy. Just because we have an agenda on defense that could be addressed by acquiring Giordano it doesn't mean we'd pay anything for it. We'd pay a solid return which is solid roster player (at same position) + strong future value. In this case a 1st in this great draft OR Rattie really fits exactly that bill. Calgary could say, hey, we got a stud prospect in return for a minor downgrade. That downgrade has some room to grow but is definitely an NHL-quality player.

If they didn't want Cole (he'd be the logical return roster player) they could swap out for Russell instead. Also young, though Cole's style is more analagous to Giordano's than is Russell's (smaller PMD, off to a bad start this year but one of the few bright spots against the Kings in the playoffs last year and a solid part of the 11-12 Blues).

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02-20-2013, 05:02 AM
  #43
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Am I odd in that while I definitely think the Flames should go hardcore rebuild, I also think they should keep Iggy as long as he's willing to accept what's coming and stay with the org through it? Gotta have one or two good vets around to teach the kids, and I can't think of too many more players I'd want to have around to inspire and teach the youngins than a class act like Iggy.

The Flames have enough 'other' pieces that they could still get quite a return.

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02-20-2013, 05:05 AM
  #44
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I strongly believe Feaster is going to be a seller when the trade deadline hits (whenever that is?)

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02-20-2013, 05:06 AM
  #45
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I don't think either Stajan or Backlund is an upgrade to Steen at third line center.

Wouldn't mind moving Rattie/1st+ for Gio, but I would want to send something else with them instead of Cole.

There's a big difference between paying to add Gio to our existing LHD group, and paying to upgrade Cole into Gio. Even with the growing pains, Cole's been our second best LHD this year, and it hasn't been all that close. Moving him in the deal takes a lot of the value out of the exchange for the Blues.

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02-20-2013, 06:42 AM
  #46
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I would do cole/rattie and a 1st for Gio, think its very fair for both teams.

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