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02-20-2013, 06:27 AM
  #101
CobraAcesS
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Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
do you think Siemens makes it over Elliot? I kind of want to trade Hejda but he just signed here two years ago so it would be a rude gesture to future FA's if we traded him so fast.
The reason I put Siemens there is because I do actually think that Avs management is realizing that this team may not be ready to compete for a playoff spot. If at the very least and probably with a little truth, because of our defense. I think they realize that bringing in a guy like Zannon was a mistake, and that it's going to be time to focus on our defensive youth. Much like we did with our forward group. I mean look what they are doing now with having both Elliott & Barrie in the lineup. (I wasn't actually sure we would see them both dressed at the same time, at least this early.)

Hejda, Barrie, Elliott, O'Brien, O'Byrne, Hunwick, and Zannon is still 7 defenders. They are actually playing Elliott as well which tells me they are focused on evaluating our youth.

With that sentiment, I think there is a high chance Siemens makes the team unless Elliott really decides to wake up. With an offensive defender brought in, Barrie, Wilson and EJ in the lineup. There will be more of a need for the type of tough defense first play Siemens brings. Siemens is also a good skater, which helps because we need our defenders to be mobile. I'm not sure anyone expected Zannon to be as bad as he has been. I think he was suppose to be a more mobile stay at home at 5'11.

Personally I think Hunwick sticks around as well, because he has the organizations respect for working hard and not complaining about being scratched. O'Brien should be kept as backup in-case Siemens really isn't ready.

So yeah I think next year we carry 8 D again : (I'll use Yandle as an example because hes my favorite, plug your favorite in.)

Yandle - EJ

Hejda - Barrie

Siemens - Wilson <--- that's actually quite scary when you think about how mean and mobile both of them are.

O'Brien - Hunwick


It's really... really crazy how much better that looks than what we started with this year.

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02-20-2013, 06:36 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The reason I put Siemens there is because I do actually think that Avs management is realizing that this team may not be ready to compete for a playoff spot. If at the very least and probably with a little truth, because of our defense. I think they realize that bringing in a guy like Zannon was a mistake, and that it's going to be time to focus on our defensive youth. Much like we did with our forward group. I mean look what they are doing now with having both Elliott & Barrie in the lineup. (I wasn't actually sure we would see them both dressed at the same time, at least this early.)

Hejda, Barrie, Elliott, O'Brien, O'Byrne, Hunwick, and Zannon is still 7 defenders. They are actually playing Elliott as well which tells me they are focused on evaluating our youth.

With that sentiment, I think there is a high chance Siemens makes the team unless Elliott really decides to wake up. With an offensive defender brought in, Barrie, Wilson and EJ in the lineup. There will be more of a need for the type of tough defense first play Siemens brings. Siemens is also a good skater, which helps because we need our defenders to be mobile. I'm not sure anyone expected Zannon to be as bad as he has been. I think he was suppose to be a more mobile stay at home at 5'11.

Personally I think Hunwick sticks around as well, because he has the organizations respect for working hard and not complaining about being scratched. O'Brien should be kept as backup in-case Siemens really isn't ready.

So yeah I think next year we carry 8 D again : (I'll use Yandle as an example because hes my favorite, plug your favorite in.)

Yandle - EJ

Hejda - Barrie

Siemens - Wilson <--- that's actually quite scary when you think about how mean and mobile both of them are.

O'Brien - Hunwick


It's really... really crazy how much better that looks than what we started with this year.
Siemens? Is the that NHL-ready? Most likely O'Brien-Wilson is the last pairing

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02-20-2013, 07:34 AM
  #103
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Well said, I agree.

That's why the Winnipeg deal is so much better. You get a decent forward as replacement (Little/Burmistrov) plus the chance to hit a real home run with a prospect like Jacob Trouba.
When we are talking young Dmen, the first two names that I would love to have with the Avs are Trouba and Kulikov.

MDZ would be a nice addition but Rangers need to add.

Trouba and Kulikov could become very good 1rst or 2nd dmen but MDZ is just a little bit better than Liles when he was at his best. I do not see MDZ as a 1rst pairing. and the way Barrie is playing at this moment, we need to give him a serious look before getting a guy like MDZ.

With Winnipeg, like Bender says, we have the possibility to add Little or Burmistrov.

And with the Panthers, we can add Nick Bjudstad, a giant that has the potential to be a very good 2nd line center.

I know, it would be ROR + but when you have a nice talent like ROR, you go for the home run.

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02-20-2013, 07:37 AM
  #104
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My biggest issue with MDZ is he's not a great skater, that's why he plays so conservatively on D and doesn't rush the puck, his skating makes him be more careful lest it be exposed. He's got good puck skills, a nice outlet pass, good shot and isn't afraid to throw his body around, but that skating makes me worry that EJ would still end up being the cleaner-upper of that pairing, and I want an EJ partner who'll free EJ, someone like Kulikov coming from Colorado-East.

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:37 AM
  #105
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You guys let an outsider come in here and hijack the topic? Have some pride, guys. Don't turn this into some generic trade proposal thread. Anymore than it already is, I suppose.
Agreed. This is a Money O'Reilly thread. Let's get on topic.

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02-20-2013, 08:14 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Siemens? Is the that NHL-ready? Most likely O'Brien-Wilson is the last pairing
Yeah most likely, but he was good in last years camp and has been very strong this year. I think his size and skating ability could help him out a bit.

I think it's pretty obvious O'Brien has lost respect with his poor conditioning to start the season. (Still think hes played better than Zannon though.)

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02-20-2013, 08:14 AM
  #107
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Many scouts point to Troubaís decision-making as one of his greatest weaknesses. His decisions at times are erratic and he is sometimes slow to reacting to developing plays. Some scouts also have questions about Troubaí hockey sense as well. But with maturity and development, Trouba should be able to improve in those areas.
Uh-huh. These are the same scouts who had Eberle as a late 1st and Justin Faulk in around the 50s. I've learned over the past 6 years to steer clear of what other people think, watch players play and form MY own opinion.

I haven't seen anything that suggests Trouba has any issues with decision making whatsoever.

Here is my pre-draft scouting report on him, ranked 5th overall:

#5 Ė Jacob Trouba, RD Ė US NTDP, USHL
With so many other great d-men available in this years draft, Trouba has maintained his top-10 draft status for the most part but I wouldnít be surprised to see him fall down a bit. Thatís not due to his ability, it could just be the case of who likes who more like when Fowler and Gormley fell a few years back. Having said that, it would be a mistake. Watching this guy, I started out indifferent and he completely won me over. Heís does everything well and he does it with authority. Heís a great skater and open-ice hitter. He had to come out from the shadow of next yearís phenom franchise prospect Seth Jones and he was actually able to do it and impress. Iím sold on this guy, heíll be a force.

NHL COMPARABLE: Erik Johnson

UPSIDE: Top 4 Two-Way D-man

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02-20-2013, 08:16 AM
  #108
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Much apologies then, but in defense, it was posed and answered surrounding the idea (although unlikely) of paving the way for ROR to return to this team as the 2C. Wont happen again.

My concern is that unless this trade brings back a home run in the return, this will be looked back on as a major step backward for the organization, and ROR may be that one piece the Avs continually search for without finding a suitable or equal replacement when their core reaches their prime and is ready to compete for a cup.

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02-20-2013, 08:16 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
there is a TON of free agent forwards this summer though. Plus we could finally give Pirate and maybe even Colin Smith a chance to shine.

we could target:

Ryan Clowe (would be great)
Semin
Perry
Jagr (would be fun)
Matt Cullen
Michael Ryder
Pierre Marc Bouchard
Penner
Bozak
MacArthur
David clarkson (would love him)
Semin is still the guy I want. He is balling right now in Carolina.

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02-20-2013, 08:17 AM
  #110
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This thread title is wrong. It's not about the money, remember?

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ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
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02-20-2013, 08:18 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
...the Winnipeg deal is so much better. You get a decent forward as replacement (Little/Burmistrov) plus the chance to hit a real home run with a prospect like Jacob Trouba.
Some people are completely delusional.

If the Avs could get Trouba alone for O'Reilly, they would be making out like thieves. Trouba is a blue-chip first-pairing type prospect. He is a hard-nosed shut-down defender who can join the rush and has a rocket for a shot. Seth Jones was not even the best defenseman on the US WJC team--Trouba beat him--and every other d-man in the tournament--hands down.

You figure that the Jets need to add a young, front-line forward like Little or Burmistrov as a throw-in?

Dream on.


Last edited by Sam I Am: 02-20-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 08:21 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Some people are completely delusional.

If the Avs could get Trouba alone for O'Reilly, they would be making out like thieves. Trouba is a blue-chip first-pairing type prospect. He is a hard-nosed shut-down defender who can join the rush and has a rocket for a shot. By far the best d-man in the WJC.
.
That's an interesting interpretation. In my opinion, trading a proven top line player for a potential top line player with questions on his decision making (you know the thing that really determines speed at the NHL level), doesn't make me feel like I'm getting a bargain, or even fair value for that matter.

But hey, that's just me.

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02-20-2013, 08:24 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Some people are completely delusional.

If the Avs could get Trouba alone for O'Reilly, they would be making out like thieves. Trouba is a blue-chip first-pairing type prospect. He is a hard-nosed shut-down defender who can join the rush and has a rocket for a shot. By far the best d-man in the WJC.

You figure that the Jets need to add a young, front-line forward like Little or Burmistrov as a throw-in?

Dream on.
Trouba alone is probably fair value, ROR will be another Bergeron.

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02-20-2013, 08:29 AM
  #114
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O'Reilly Senior is a tool.

Quote:
This is not about money and never has been.
Quote:
So we ask the person who has a tremendous amount of character to take less money for his character yet it is the essential building block any team matter of fact the key ingredient.

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02-20-2013, 08:39 AM
  #115
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My biggest issue with MDZ is he's not a great skater, that's why he plays so conservatively on D and doesn't rush the puck, his skating makes him be more careful lest it be exposed. He's got good puck skills, a nice outlet pass, good shot and isn't afraid to throw his body around, but that skating makes me worry that EJ would still end up being the cleaner-upper of that pairing, and I want an EJ partner who'll free EJ, someone like Kulikov coming from Colorado-East.
MDZ is definitely not fleet of foot but he isn't slow. He has gotten better with his footspeed since he got into the NHL. I can't really remember the last time he got "burned" and he is rather aggressive due to the Rangers style of play.

He will not be a puck-rusher, more of a distributor of the puck.

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02-20-2013, 08:56 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
MDZ is definitely not fleet of foot but he isn't slow. He has gotten better with his footspeed since he got into the NHL. I can't really remember the last time he got "burned" and he is rather aggressive due to the Rangers style of play.

He will not be a puck-rusher, more of a distributor of the puck.
My concern centers around puck retrieval, when I've watched MDZ there was too many times where he stayed around the net instead of racing into the corner to steal the puck before the opposition forwards could get to it. Which I get, you don't wanna get caught out off position, but a smoother skater wouldn't have to worry about that and that's what I want from an EJ partner. I'm actually fine with him not being a puck rusher, EJ's great at that when he's free to do so, but getting to the puck and getting it out of the zone is something very important in an EJ partner, and is an area I'm not sold on MDZ with, which is why I prefer a deal around Kulikov.

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02-20-2013, 09:03 AM
  #117
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Trouba alone is probably fair value, ROR will be another Bergeron.
I genuinely think ROR is worth more. Re-drafting 2009 sees ROR go 5th overall or so (ignoring the tools that say second overall) and he's really blossomed into a responsible, reliable two way centre that is capable of being a 1C. Trouba + a little something for me because I would take a good, proven NHLer over a good NHL prospect any day of the week. Until he plays in the NHL, we have no way of knowing exactly how well his game translates to the pro game. It could also be another 6 years until he is a really effective player, if at all.

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02-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #118
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My concern centers around puck retrieval, when I've watched MDZ there was too many times where he stayed around the net instead of racing into the corner to steal the puck before the opposition forwards could get to it. Which I get, you don't wanna get caught out off position, but a smoother skater wouldn't have to worry about that and that's what I want from an EJ partner. I'm actually fine with him not being a puck rusher, EJ's great at that when he's free to do so, but getting to the puck and getting it out of the zone is something very important in an EJ partner, and is an area I'm not sold on MDZ with, which is why I prefer a deal around Kulikov.
I'd rather Kulikov as well, but I wonder how much of MDZ's reluctance is Torts. If MDZ gets caught out of position a few times he is going to have his minutes cut or sent back to the minors like he was a couple of seasons ago.

Of all the things to be worried about with MDZ, skating is one of the least IMO. His skating will get better (if not it is good enough), and he would be paired with a good skater here. I'm more worried about him clearing up the lapses in judgement that he gets from time to time. There are moments where you wonder what he was thinking or doing, not nearly as many as a few years ago, but they are still there. That said, MDZ would be a great addition to this team and a good partner for EJ IMO.

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02-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My concern centers around puck retrieval, when I've watched MDZ there was too many times where he stayed around the net instead of racing into the corner to steal the puck before the opposition forwards could get to it. Which I get, you don't wanna get caught out off position, but a smoother skater wouldn't have to worry about that and that's what I want from an EJ partner. I'm actually fine with him not being a puck rusher, EJ's great at that when he's free to do so, but getting to the puck and getting it out of the zone is something very important in an EJ partner, and is an area I'm not sold on MDZ with, which is why I prefer a deal around Kulikov.
I think what you are talking about is more the system the Rangers play. They play from the goal out. Pretty much every defender plays like that and the Rangers have great skaters back there like McDonagh and Staal. They wait for everyone to be in the hose and then go pressure the puck.

I think they would work well together but I understand wanting more from a top-pairing guy. Just giving my .02$

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02-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #120
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DZ would be nice for our PP. Get Dutchy off the point and down low along the wall.

I'm afraid that little email Dater posted could affect the trade value for O'Reilly.

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02-20-2013, 09:15 AM
  #121
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DZ would be nice for our PP. Get Dutchy off the point and down low along the wall.

I'm afraid that little email Dater posted could affect the trade value for O'Reilly.
What email?

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02-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #122
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I think what you are talking about is more the system the Rangers play. They play from the goal out. Pretty much every defender plays like that and the Rangers have great skaters back there like McDonagh and Staal. They wait for everyone to be in the hose and then go pressure the puck.

I think they would work well together but I understand wanting more from a top-pairing guy. Just giving my .02$
That would make sense, but sometimes it seems like he'd be able to completely eliminate the need to defend if he'd just go get the puck. If that's the system then that's the system, but to me it's seemed like MDZ covering for his skating because he's worried about getting caught out of position and exposed.

And no worries man, appreciate getting other fans' input as long as it's not toronto fans trying to tell us how Ryan's barely on Bozak's level.

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02-20-2013, 09:22 AM
  #123
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Brian O'reilly's comments irritate me to no end. The man is clearly both delusional and stupid and it frustrates me that he's been allowed to be so involved in the process. These guys honestly have a very different definition of "character", "unselfish" and "team player" if they're going to get so offended that the organization doesn't want to overpay for those same qualities that they hold out for an entire season and try to sign in Russia to strongarm the team.

The O'reilly camp's conduct has to me suggested the exact opposite - a player who is selfish, puts himself above the good of the team, has an inflated view of his self-worth in comparison to his peers on the team, and is willing to throw his teammates under the bus.

ROR is an incredible player, I enjoy watching him play, but quite frankly at this point I'm fed up with him and his camp. Get this distraction away from the team and bring a solid asset or two back. I don't really want him back any longer.

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02-20-2013, 09:23 AM
  #124
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What email?
Ryan's dad sent a long email that got published in the post. It was a lot of nothing about character and how the Avs apparently hate character now.

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02-20-2013, 09:25 AM
  #125
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Ryan's dad sent a long email that got published in the post. It was a lot of nothing about character and how the Avs apparently hate character now.
Our team is full of character. What an idiot.

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