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2014 Olympics and the NHL (UPD: NHL, NHLPA, IIHF, IOC meeting this week)

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #251
Zine
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Lets not forget the Olympics is the only tournament that is meaningful for the entire global hockey community (NA and Europe).


Call me an idealist, but as the world's #1 league (who takes the best talent from all around the world), the NHL should be at least partly responsible for sanctity of the global game.

If any 1 tournament benefits the sport globally, it's the olympics; especially considering outside of Canada nobody gives two ***** about the world Cup, and the same holds true for the the World Championships in NA.

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02-19-2013, 01:13 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Call me an idealist, but as the world's #1 league (who takes the best talent from all around the world), the NHL should be at least partly responsible for sanctity of the global game.
Why should they be resistible for anything other than their own league?

I think they should do some kind of international tourney every 20-25 years. And other than that, the NHL should have nothing to do with this international crap.

In my mind, 72 was fun and it's just gotten boring with the sheer amount of it.

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02-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Why should they be resistible for anything other than their own league?

I think they should do some kind of international tourney every 20-25 years. And other than that, the NHL should have nothing to do with this international crap.

In my mind, 72 was fun and it's just gotten boring with the sheer amount of it.

International crap? Where do you think a large portion of the NHL's talent base comes from?

A responsible and ethical company replants the trees it cuts down. Considering as such, the very least the NHL could do is allow the game to showcase its best on the highest platform (olympics) to help garner interest globally. No other 1 tournament can do this like the olympics can.

But like I said, I was talking idealistically.

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02-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #254
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No other CURRENT tournament can... I don't know why you think hockey needs to be so desperate for the olympics cuz in reality hockey and NBA outliers and are basically the only major professional club sports whose major international competition is done in the olympics. Soccer, Rugby, Cricket, Baseball & Tennis have their own competitions that are paramount to whatever olympic activity if any they engage in, so don't make it sound like ice hockey would be doing something radical here by telling the IOC and their greedy bureaucracy, incompetent officials, poor scheduling, limited hosting and airtight content rules to shove off.

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02-19-2013, 02:49 PM
  #255
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[QUOTE=Burke the Legend;60017775]NHL has over 3 billion a year in revenues so I wouldn't say that is non-existent it is solidly in the big 4 of NA team sports leagues.

... of which, more than 30% are generated by the Canadian teams in gate receipts alone:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...in_canada.html

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02-19-2013, 02:52 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
International crap? Where do you think a large portion of the NHL's talent base comes from?

A responsible and ethical company replants the trees it cuts down. Considering as such, the very least the NHL could do is allow the game to showcase its best on the highest platform (olympics) to help garner interest globally. No other 1 tournament can do this like the olympics can.

But like I said, I was talking idealistically.
Please... the NHL can't even do it in the 1 market they actually care about (the USA). Why the h e double hockey sticks would we expect them to want or be able to do that internationally???

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02-19-2013, 05:59 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
NHL has over 3 billion a year in revenues so I wouldn't say that is non-existent it is solidly in the big 4 of NA team sports leagues.
... of which, more than 30% are generated by the Canadian teams in gate receipts alone:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...in_canada.html
uhh - nope.

That article does not say that the Canadian team's gate revenue generate 30% of League $3B+ HRR. It says that the then-six Canadian teams generated 31-33% of the leagues $1.2B in ticket revenues.

Quote:
The confidential document shows that the six Canadian NHL clubs last season accounted for about 33 per cent of the $1.2 billion (U.S.) in league ticket revenue. In 2007-08, Canada's six teams represented 31 per cent.

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02-19-2013, 06:24 PM
  #258
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NHL participation in the Olympics was done for the sole purpose of increasing the league's popularity in the US.

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02-19-2013, 09:45 PM
  #259
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In other news, I just learned that Austria eliminated Germany in pre-Olympic tourney qualifying. So much for the best on best theory. I mean come on...Germany has prduced way better talent than Austria. Maybe they weren't able to cobble together a team for the qualifying tourney, but something is wrong if Austria gets in and Germany doesn't.

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02-19-2013, 09:51 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Northender View Post
In other news, I just learned that Austria eliminated Germany in pre-Olympic tourney qualifying. So much for the best on best theory. I mean come on...Germany has prduced way better talent than Austria. Maybe they weren't able to cobble together a team for the qualifying tourney, but something is wrong if Austria gets in and Germany doesn't.
It's not like the qualifying tournament was the only reason they didn't make it. You also get points for the previous Olympics and the three World Championships following the last Olympics. Germany has sucked over the course of the last four years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_World_Ranking

Not only that, didn't Germany also get knocked out of next year's WJC?

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02-20-2013, 02:17 AM
  #261
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very few are going to watch and pay attention with just amatures. I never got why so many people dont want the best of the best representing there countries.

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02-20-2013, 03:47 AM
  #262
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I'd rather watch the best amateur hockey players in the world compete against each other, and gain that invaluable experience. I believe in growing the sport, and I believe having college kids playing in the Olympics goes a long way towards that goal. The success of the 1980 team had a profound impact on hockey development and awareness in the US. I'll ask: why take that away?

Besides, if all these countries have their best players in the NHL as you say, then I can watch them play in the NHL. Why do I need to watch them play in the Olympics too?
You sound like such things like Miracle on Ice happen every Olympics. You do not realise how many times US playing with college kids would suck before another Miracle happens. More than 30 years has already passed since then.
You say: Why take THAT away?
What that: Miracle or losses?
I wouldn't call massacre of the Innocents an "invalueable experience"


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02-20-2013, 04:55 AM
  #263
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The NHL wants to grow the sport and get the best talent in the world. The rest of the World which isn't big on hockey, but perhaps are watching because it's the olympics now some kids out there get interested.

Then in the future if the NHL has gone through with an expansion the new found love of hockey in other countries can produce more players for their drafts.

I don't see why the NHL wouldnt want to participate.

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02-20-2013, 07:26 AM
  #264
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It's not like the qualifying tournament was the only reason they didn't make it. You also get points for the previous Olympics and the three World Championships following the last Olympics. Germany has sucked over the course of the last four years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_World_Ranking

Not only that, didn't Germany also get knocked out of next year's WJC?
No, they beat Latvia, who in turn was relegated.

And actually Germany has been pretty good the last 4 years. Last year's WC knocked them out of the top 9 automatic qualifying spots though which was their one bad year. Unfortunately for them, that one counted the most in the rankings.

I'm not sure why the absence of Germany would no longer make it "best-on-best" though. Austria beat them fair and square (well, tied them after regulation anyway which was all they needed, since Germany lost to Italy).

The idea that Germany deserves to be at the Olympics based on the talent they have produced is just silly. Might as well not even play any hockey then, and award all championships based on who has the best team on paper.

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02-20-2013, 07:34 AM
  #265
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Russia alone puts it above American football which is nonexistent in Europe. Based on your logic, baseball is bigger than hockey just because of the US. Yet, neither it nor American football are even Olympic sports.

You made the claim in the first hand, you're suppose to provide stats to back it up first.
The USA is over twice the size of Russia and has roughly five times as many people playing hockey than Russia does. Whether or not a sport is played at the Olympics has nothing to do with how popular it is.

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02-20-2013, 07:36 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
No other CURRENT tournament can... I don't know why you think hockey needs to be so desperate for the olympics cuz in reality hockey and NBA outliers and are basically the only major professional club sports whose major international competition is done in the olympics. Soccer, Rugby, Cricket, Baseball & Tennis have their own competitions that are paramount to whatever olympic activity if any they engage in, so don't make it sound like ice hockey would be doing something radical here by telling the IOC and their greedy bureaucracy, incompetent officials, poor scheduling, limited hosting and airtight content rules to shove off.
I'm no expert on all of those sports, but baseball would trade the World Baseball Classic in favor of the Olympics in a heartbeat. Nobody gives a single **** about the WBC. I bet most people (even baseball fans) don't even realize it starts in a week and a half.

Soccer, Rugby and Cricket have successful international tournaments however, but they also aren't run by single leagues who give one country home ice (field) advantage every time it's held.

If there's no NHLers at the Olympics, and the only alternative is an NHL-run competition, I'd rather there not be ANY "best-on-best" hockey tournament at all.

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02-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
The USA is over twice the size of Russia and has roughly five times as many people playing hockey than Russia does. Whether or not a sport is played at the Olympics has nothing to do with how popular it is.
Actually it is:

Quote:
A sport or discipline is included in the Olympic program if the IOC determines it is widely practiced around the world, that is, the number of countries that compete in a given sport is the indicator of the sport's prevalence. The IOC's requirements reflect participation in the Olympic Games as well—more stringent toward men (as they are represented in higher numbers) and Summer sports (as more nations compete in the Summer Olympics).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_sports

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02-20-2013, 09:25 AM
  #268
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So let's say the entire population of China and India plays this one sport that no one else in the world plays, you would say it's unpopular, even though over two billion people play it? Because a sport only played in two countries wouldn't be in the Olympics.

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02-20-2013, 09:43 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
No other CURRENT tournament can... I don't know why you think hockey needs to be so desperate for the olympics cuz in reality hockey and NBA outliers and are basically the only major professional club sports whose major international competition is done in the olympics. Soccer, Rugby, Cricket, Baseball & Tennis have their own competitions that are paramount to whatever olympic activity if any they engage in, so don't make it sound like ice hockey would be doing something radical here by telling the IOC and their greedy bureaucracy, incompetent officials, poor scheduling, limited hosting and airtight content rules to shove off.
Yeah but the thing is, those sports' World Cups/Championships aren't cash grabs for 1 single league.....

It's why at this point I prefer the Olympics and even the WHC to the World Cup, it's not the NHL show.

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02-20-2013, 09:44 AM
  #270
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No, they beat Latvia, who in turn was relegated.

And actually Germany has been pretty good the last 4 years. Last year's WC knocked them out of the top 9 automatic qualifying spots though which was their one bad year. Unfortunately for them, that one counted the most in the rankings.

I'm not sure why the absence of Germany would no longer make it "best-on-best" though. Austria beat them fair and square (well, tied them after regulation anyway which was all they needed, since Germany lost to Italy).

The idea that Germany deserves to be at the Olympics based on the talent they have produced is just silly. Might as well not even play any hockey then, and award all championships based on who has the best team on paper.
What I was getting at was we are apparently going to be seeing the talented and mighty hockey nation of Austrian playing in the Olympic tourney. In a World Cup / Canada Cup format, no way does a country like Austria get invited to particpated over Germany. Not in a 100 years. Why, becuase Austria doesn't produce the pro's that Germany does.

For the record, I actually love the Olympic tourney. I thought the 2010 Oly's produced the best overall tournament of hockey in history. I watched just about every game, It didn't matter if it was Latvia vs Kazaksthan (or whatever)...the rules and the ice size made for really entertaining hockey. I was just being a bit of a devils advocate when I made those remarks.

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02-20-2013, 09:46 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by DoubleDose86 View Post
The NHL wants to grow the sport and get the best talent in the world. The rest of the World which isn't big on hockey, but perhaps are watching because it's the olympics now some kids out there get interested.

Then in the future if the NHL has gone through with an expansion the new found love of hockey in other countries can produce more players for their drafts.

I don't see why the NHL wouldnt want to participate.
No they don't. They want to grow the soport in the USA. And they do a sh** job of that. How does anybody think they could possibly do that internationally???

They do want to get the best talent in the world, I will give you that.

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02-20-2013, 09:47 AM
  #272
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So let's say the entire population of China and India plays this one sport that no one else in the world plays, you would say it's unpopular, even though over two billion people play it? Because a sport only played in two countries wouldn't be in the Olympics.
That's what I've been saying all along... The sport has to be widespread enough and played in many countries and to have "enough" national federations.

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02-20-2013, 09:50 AM
  #273
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What I was getting at was we are apparently going to be seeing the talented and mighty hockey nation of Austrian playing in the Olympic tourney. In a World Cup / Canada Cup format, no way does a country like Austria get invited to particpated over Germany. Not in a 100 years.
And that's exactly why the Olympics are the much superior competition.

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02-20-2013, 10:26 AM
  #274
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I'm no expert on all of those sports, but baseball would trade the World Baseball Classic in favor of the Olympics in a heartbeat. Nobody gives a single **** about the WBC. I bet most people (even baseball fans) don't even realize it starts in a week and a half.

Soccer, Rugby and Cricket have successful international tournaments however, but they also aren't run by single leagues who give one country home ice (field) advantage every time it's held.

If there's no NHLers at the Olympics, and the only alternative is an NHL-run competition, I'd rather there not be ANY "best-on-best" hockey tournament at all.
First off, the WBC is gonna be a success next month, book it. It's been better each time since the first one, it's growing, it's great competition and a great festival of international baseball, nobody who tunes in is disappointed. The revenues go back to all the baseball and they don't have to deal with the vulgar and perfidious IOC (the corrupt ******** who snubbed baseball, and recently cut wrestling).

Second, EVERYBODY acknowledges the old WCH had problems, can you people please stop strawmanning it and referencing it as if a 2016 WCH will be the exact same as the 2004 event? It is seriously dishonest to do so.

The Euro leagues are a lot stronger than they were in 2004, it would not just be a "NHL show". Everybody can have a stake in it and the hosting can be spread around better especially if it's played in NHL pre-season (where the NHL is already sending NHL teams to open in Europe what's the difference in sending a international team??).

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02-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
First off, the WBC is gonna be a success next month, book it. It's been better each time since the first one, it's growing, it's great competition and a great festival of international baseball, nobody who tunes in is disappointed. The revenues go back to all the baseball and they don't have to deal with the vulgar and perfidious IOC (the corrupt ******** who snubbed baseball, and recently cut wrestling).

Second, EVERYBODY acknowledges the old WCH had problems, can you people please stop strawmanning it and referencing it as if a 2016 WCH will be the exact same as the 2004 event? It is seriously dishonest to do so.

The Euro leagues are a lot stronger than they were in 2004, it would not just be a "NHL show". Everybody can have a stake in it and the hosting can be spread around better especially if it's played in NHL pre-season (where the NHL is already sending NHL teams to open in Europe what's the difference in sending a international team??).
I will see what they develop the World Cup into, but if its too pro-NHL, I won't see it as a legit competition. Since we only have the prior World Cups to go on, it's the only structure we can fairly comment on.

The NHL can prove us and many skeptics wrong if they truly make an effort to include the rest of the world in organizing and running this.

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