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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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02-20-2013, 11:28 AM
  #151
Freudian
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post


If you want to use that as a negative on MDZ because of that single play than you can use that on EVERY single defenseman in the league. That's what I am saying.
You were the one saying you never seen him get burned. It's possible you have a different definition of what getting burned is than the one I use.

I guess it's easier if I just post a clip. People can make up their mind if del Zottos skating was a problem here (start of a shift too, so he wasn't exhausted) or if he got burned or not.



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02-20-2013, 11:30 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Anyways, only thing to take from that is what I've been saying since before the season started, yet everybody wants to believe otherwise... he has not asked for a trade. Also, he will not sign an offer sheet. Nothing has changed there.
But he does realize that the path he is on only has one outcome? He's asking for a trade, he's just not verbalizing it.

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02-20-2013, 11:32 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You were the one saying you never seen him get burned. It's possible you have a different definition of what getting burned is than the one I use.

I guess it's easier if I just post a clip. People can make up their mind if del Zottos skating was a problem here (start of a shift too, so he wasn't exhausted) or if he got burned or not.


Again, you don't see the turnover and the fact that was caught flat-footed. It wasn't lack of speed. It was that Cole was moving and MDZ was moving the opposite direction.

Edit - I should also say that MDZ is not going to beat Cole in a foot-race anyways, but that play is not a good indication of being burned. Just the way the play occurred.

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02-20-2013, 11:35 AM
  #154
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Haven't heard anything about the Bruins, but they may very well be in contact with the Avs. I've never heard O'Ry say he wants to be a Bruin, he never supported them or anything as a kid.

Anyways, only thing to take from that is what I've been saying since before the season started, yet everybody wants to believe otherwise... he has not asked for a trade. Also, he will not sign an offer sheet. Nothing has changed there.
He hasnt asked for a trade....so stop trying to trade the the mofo and pay the guy already ffs Sherman.

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02-20-2013, 11:36 AM
  #155
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Anyways, only thing to take from that is what I've been saying since before the season started, yet everybody wants to believe otherwise... he has not asked for a trade. Also, he will not sign an offer sheet. Nothing has changed there.
If that is the case, why haven't his agent spoken to the Avs in last few weeks or so as the reports indicate? His side has made absolutely zero strength for him to re-sign here and not signing a offer sheet shows he wants no part of this organization.

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02-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #156
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If that is the case, why haven't his agent spoken to the Avs in last few weeks or so as the reports indicate? His side has made absolutely zero strength for him to re-sign here and not signing a offer sheet shows he wants no part of this organization.
Because the Avs have clearly made a huge effort to talk again, right?

Please, let's not make assumptions that only one side has dug their heels in the mud.

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02-20-2013, 11:42 AM
  #157
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Because the Avs have clearly made a huge effort to talk again, right?

Please, let's not make assumptions that only one side has dug their heels in the mud.
Alright, but he's one that is not playing hockey and Avs are one exploring trade options. If he liked playing for us so much and liked the group of guys, his side definitely haven't showed it to me or the public.

I might be a wrong, but I see it as Avs offered him contracts and he turned them down. I can blame both sides that they're stuck on their offer, but the player is one that needs to come down a bit to start the negotiating. I get the sense he has stuck with his 5 million salary for this whole time.

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02-20-2013, 11:45 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Because the Avs have clearly made a huge effort to talk again, right?

Please, let's not make assumptions that only one side has dug their heels in the mud.
No doubt Avs are as stubborn as Montreal were with Subban, Florida with Kulikov and Rangers were with del Zotto. That's not going to change. They're not going to let O'Reilly force them into changing how they handle second contracts.

The question is why O'Reilly is much more stubborn than all those players.

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02-20-2013, 11:50 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
No doubt Avs are as stubborn as Montreal were with Subban, Florida with Kulikov and Rangers were with del Zotto. That's not going to change. They're not going to let O'Reilly force them into changing how they handle second contracts.

The question is why O'Reilly is much more stubborn than all those players.
Does it really surprise anyone that Ryan O'Reilly is the one who's most stubborn and hardest to break of that group of players? Not even getting into the specifics of Ryan being the only of those guys who was coming off of a great season in which he flourished while being handed all of the responsibility, just looking at the personalities at play here. Ryan's a stubborn and prideful dude. It's why we love him on the ice so much, but it's also why I'm disappointingly not shocked he's such a ***** to negotiate with. Especially with his dad, who still hasn't realized that he needs a trip-sitter.

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02-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #160
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Does it really surprise anyone that Ryan O'Reilly is the one who's most stubborn and harder to break than those guys? Not even getting into the specifics of Ryan being the only of those guys who was coming off of a great season in which he flourished while being handed all of the responsibility, just looking at the personalities at play here.
Of course. The only way this plays out is he will get traded and I guess feel proud of not backing down. Character.

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02-20-2013, 11:55 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Of course. The only way this plays out is he will get traded and I guess feel proud of not backing down. Character.
Yeah, especially with the way this season has gone for the Avs, Ryan's really locked himself into a corner, the season going to **** while Duchene reminds everyone why he was the more touted of the two during their first two years has really hurt Ryan's position by drastically reducing the Avs' need to sign him quickly.

I'm probably just being an optimist but I could see the Avs not getting a package they like and deciding to keep him til the offseason and then kicking things up again, maybe then either Ryan's more willing to come down, or other teams are more comfortable shaking up their rosters. That's about the only way I can see this ending with Ryan still wearing an Avs jersey for any stretch of time.

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02-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #162
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I disagree. I hate the idea of getting a redundant player like Little, and a totally unproven prospect in return for O'Reilly. Talk about an easy way to get burned. Isn't Trouba viewed as more of a shutdown guy with some offensive upside anyway? I think that kind of player is fairly easy to find, unless he breaks out big time offensively in the NHL.
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Interesting, though I didn't just say a pure shutdown guy. I'm not too familiar with him. Although "two way defender" is thrown around a hell of a lot, and doesn't necessarily translate to their actual NHL role.

Still, I think an offensive defenseman that is average defensively, is a better option for this team than a two way guy that may not get higher than 20-30 points. Especially an 18 year old.
You disagree with me yet you're not too familiar with Trouba?

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This thread title is wrong. It's not about the money, remember?
That's why it's funny.

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Ryan. Bring the pitchforks, BT!
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ya don't need no pitchforks fer a lynchin'

jus' a good noose an' a white oak tree.
What...no torches!?!

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Old
02-20-2013, 12:06 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Does it really surprise anyone that Ryan O'Reilly is the one who's most stubborn and hardest to break of that group of players? Not even getting into the specifics of Ryan being the only of those guys who was coming off of a great season in which he flourished while being handed all of the responsibility, just looking at the personalities at play here. Ryan's a stubborn and prideful dude. It's why we love him on the ice so much, but it's also why I'm disappointingly not shocked he's such a ***** to negotiate with. Especially with his dad, who still hasn't realized that he needs a trip-sitter.
PK Subban handled first-pairing minutes. He played against the top lines. He finished with 36 points. (lead his team) He was second on the team in SH time per game. 2nd in ES time per game. 1st in PP time per game. Finished +9 on the 3rd to last place team in the league.

Id say he flourished while being handed all of the responsibility. He's also been described as cocky, flashy and arrogant.

Signed for 2.875M for 2 years. Oh, and going into the season, he was EASILY considered their top d-man.

So the situation seems to be quite similar. Only difference is one is center, one is d. But, id venture to say that Subban is more important to the Habs than ROR is the avs, just due to the lack of depth in each respective position.

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02-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #164
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I think Subban struggled more at being a number 1 D than Ryan did at being a number 1 C given the support each had last year, but that's a fair point, and one that Ryan should consider, but my point was that just looking at the personal makeup we all love on the ice, I'm not surprised at all that this got ugly once Ryan started asking for his big long term deal now.

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02-20-2013, 12:11 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
No doubt Avs are as stubborn as Montreal were with Subban, Florida with Kulikov and Rangers were with del Zotto. That's not going to change. They're not going to let O'Reilly force them into changing how they handle second contracts.

The question is why O'Reilly is much more stubborn than all those players.
Exactly this.

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02-20-2013, 12:20 PM
  #166
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I think Subban struggled more at being a number 1 D than Ryan did at being a number 1 C given the support each had last year, but that's a fair point, and one that Ryan should consider, but my point was that just looking at the personal makeup we all love on the ice, I'm not surprised at all that this got ugly once Ryan started asking for his big long term deal now.
But thats the thing. Im completely baffled.

I really dont see where ROR is coming from, or how he could justify a 2yr, 7M dollar deal as "low-balling".

As prideful, and as much character the dude is and has, I just dont get it.

Maybe he lacks confidence or self-esteem, and thus worries about his ability to replicate last season's results.

But just looking over the seasons, over the 200+ games he's played, Id argue hes outplayed the other two (been the best of the 3) for a grand total of 60 games. (the first 60 games of last year)

Because the last 20 games or so of last year, he vanished, and Stastny picked up the offense.

So to summarize, over his 3 years:

60 games, he was #1
20 games, he was #2
140 games, hes was #3

Am i just being too harsh on the guy?

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02-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Because the Avs have clearly made a huge effort to talk again, right?

Please, let's not make assumptions that only one side has dug their heels in the mud.
Sadly we're right back to square one (or more correctly, have never left square one).

The Avs are being bull headed and the O'Reilly camp is feeling betrayed, neither of them have their wits about them to put out the burning bridges and Avs fans are on a collision course with the bridge, we'll either fall off the cliff or make it across depending on how both sides play the rest of this out.

Curious, but do you have any expectations on if this thing will continue to be drawn out or if it will reach a conclusion anytime soon?

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02-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #168
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Some people are completely delusional.

If the Avs could get Trouba alone for O'Reilly, they would be making out like thieves. Trouba is a blue-chip first-pairing type prospect. He is a hard-nosed shut-down defender who can join the rush and has a rocket for a shot. Seth Jones was not even the best defenseman on the US WJC team--Trouba beat him--and every other d-man in the tournament--hands down.

You figure that the Jets need to add a young, front-line forward like Little or Burmistrov as a throw-in?

Dream on.
Hey superstar...please read ANY of my posts and show me where I said that Wipaneg needs to accept it and like it.

Clearly, there is ZERO RISK with Trouba and he will develop into a superstar just like:

1995 - 3rd - Los Angeles - Aki-Petteri Berg
1995 - 9th - Boston - Kyle McLaren
1996 - 2nd - San Jose - Andrei Zyuzin
1996 - 5th - Dallas - Richard Jackman
1996 - 8th - Boston - Johnathan Aitken
1997 - 7th - Tampa Bay - Paul Mara
1997 - 9th - Washington - Nick Boynton
1998 - 4th - Vancouver - Bryan Allen
1998 - 5th - Anaheim - Vitaly Vishnevsky
1999 - 10th - NY Islanders - Branislav Mezei
2000 - 7th - Boston - Lars Jonsson
2001 - 7th - Montreal - Mike Komisarek
2002 - 12th - Washington - Steve Eminger
2003 - 21st - Boston - Mark Stuart
2004 - 3rd - Chicago - Cam Barker
2004 - 10th - Atlanta - Boris Valabik
2004 - 12th - Minnesota - A.J. Thelen
2005 - 9th - Ottawa - Brian Lee
2005 - 14th - Washington - Sasha Pokulok
2006 - 16th - San Jose - Ty Wishart
2007 - 4th - Los Angeles - Thomas Hickey
2007 - 10th - Florida - Keaton Ellerby
2007 - 15th - Edmonton - Alex Plante
2008 - 13th - Los Angeles - Colten Teubert

Yeah I'm CLEARLY delusional. All those teams that drafted these players, only 9 months later probably realized what a HUGE mistake they've made, right? Fans of those teams as well, were THRILLED with what these players were going to bring to their lineup in only a few short years....hey, just like you are right now!!! (guys like Hickey and Barker immediately come to mind)

I'm not saying Jacob Trouba is certainly going to end up on this list because I personally believe he will not. However, just like all of these players, who's team's scouting staff spent HOURS & HOURS figuring out if they are the right pick or not and eventually it ended up being 'not', there is NO GUARANTEE that Trouba will meet his potential. Mike Komisarek was also considered at one time to be a blue-chip, can't miss prospect.

You can say, "we believe he's going to be a franchise player and we're not going to trade him" and that's fine. However, to call me delusional because THAT'S the player I've targeted in exchange for one of our best young & proven players is flat out wrong because of the inherit risks with young players involved as I mentioned above.

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02-20-2013, 12:25 PM
  #169
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Agreed Bender. If you take a dman then you take one who's already proven even if his ceiling isn't that high (eg Carl Gunarsson) but if you wanna go for a prospect then you go for a forward in a deal like this. We need at least one of the pieces coming back to be a sure thing.

Also guys, are we really youtube scouting Del Zotto?

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02-20-2013, 12:26 PM
  #170
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Man, people are harsh on MDZ. He's a 22 year old defenseman. He isn't a finished product. Kulikov seems to be glorified on here, but he's got his own issues and isn't a finished product either. If we're trading for a young defenseman, they aren't going to be fully developed so be prepared to deal with some growing pains.

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02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #171
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More I read about the little things about ROR, the more I dislike the guy.. Shocked at some of the things he's said, or better yet, some of the things he's written.

Duchene is the man, btw. Love him. Exactly the type of character you want in your lockerroom. He's grown on my 10X over last 32 minutes.

MDZ's skating is marginal. Not his greatest strength, but I wouldn't say he's under-average. It has improved over the years, and there's certainly room for more improvement.

Rangers like to collapse down low. Pressure coming from the forwards. Torts wants his dmen around Lundqvist. It's the system the Rangers play, not so much MDZ being lazy or non-aggressive.

Watching 1 game doesn't say much, either. The entire Rangers team played like horse **** last night. Disgusting performance. You guys definitely need to watch a couple of games before coming to a decisive conclusion about this pros/cons.

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02-20-2013, 12:29 PM
  #172
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More I read about the little things about ROR, the more I dislike the guy.. Shocked at some of the things he's said, or better yet, some of the things he's written.
You mean his dad, right? Ryan himself is a very humble, competitive and intelligent guy. I still believe he is being given terrible advice and has his judgement clouded by those around him.

Who among us can say that as a teenager they were not overly influenced by their parents?

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02-20-2013, 12:34 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
More I read about the little things about ROR, the more I dislike the guy.. Shocked at some of the things he's said, or better yet, some of the things he's written.

Duchene is the man, btw. Love him. Exactly the type of character you want in your lockerroom. He's grown on my 10X over last 32 minutes.

MDZ's skating is marginal. Not his greatest strength, but I wouldn't say he's under-average. It has improved over the years, and there's certainly room for more improvement.

Rangers like to collapse down low. Pressure coming from the forwards. Torts wants his dmen around Lundqvist. It's the system the Rangers play, not so much MDZ being lazy or non-aggressive.

Watching 1 game doesn't say much, either. The entire Rangers team played like horse **** last night. Disgusting performance. You guys definitely need to watch a couple of games before coming to a decisive conclusion about this pros/cons.
That letter and most of what gets out of ROR camp is actually his dad, who should've learned to shut his mouth long ago.

I'm a giants and knicks fans so the rangers are one of the teams I'll watch if the Avs aren't on when i wanna watch Hockey, so I get that MDZ isn't O'Byrne out there, but as you yourself said it's not a strength of his and that's something I think is crucial for an EJ partner, whoever we get needs to be able to skate well to cover for EJ so that EJ can finally open up with some regularity. That's why I'm so high on the likes of Kulikov and Sekera, it's a trait that I think an ideal EJ partner needs to have.


Last edited by cgf: 02-20-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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02-20-2013, 12:35 PM
  #174
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Man, people are harsh on MDZ. He's a 22 year old defenseman. He isn't a finished product. Kulikov seems to be glorified on here, but he's got his own issues and isn't a finished product either. If we're trading for a young defenseman, they aren't going to be fully developed so be prepared to deal with some growing pains.
The thing I like about him is his long pass. He can set up some 2 on 1 or 1 on 0 rushes. We havent had anyone like that in a while.

I still need to see more of him. Maybe we could get MDZ and Kreider. Throw in Hunwick or O'byrne so Succo cant play the worst d pairing in the league anymore.

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02-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #175
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I still need to see more of him. Maybe we could get MDZ and Kreider. Throw in Hunwick or O'byrne so Succo cant play the worst d pairing in the league anymore.
Those two are our tank commanders. Like Brian Elliot before them, they will lead us to draft day glory!

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