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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:42 AM
  #176
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post

Watching 1 game doesn't say much, either. The entire Rangers team played like horse **** last night. Disgusting performance. You guys definitely need to watch a couple of games before coming to a decisive conclusion about this pros/cons.
Contradicting yourself there a little aren't you?

Claiming to us Avs fans that we need to watch more of MDZ before gaining an opinion of him, yet disliking ROR more and more because of the things HIS DAD(Not ROR) has said, that have no bearing on ROR.

Maybe you should read some of the things about ROR from last year before coming to a decisive conclusion about him.

Duchene is the man, but ROR is just as much the man, even after all of this. Its gonna be a sad day for us Avs fans if he is traded, regardless of the return. And it will be like Xmas if he resigns here.

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02-20-2013, 11:46 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You disagree with me yet you're not too familiar with Trouba?
You don't usually just read two words and then shake your head right? I clearly disagreed with you on principle that it isn't a top priority for this team to acquire a redundant player like Little, and an unproven prospect.

I'm not terribly familiar with Trouba. Apparently you guys have seen all his games so maybe you can enlighten me. I was under the impression he was a very good shutdown guy with some offensive upside. I got corrected saying no, no, not at all. He's a shutdown guy with a wicked slapper. Sounds the same to me.

Maybe you can set the record straight to what he is, and what he projects to be, because I don't see a strong need for a guy like that, and an easy way to get burned in a trade if they end being a solid NHL defensive defensman that puts up 25 points on a season. Not to mention we have Siemens who sounds like he plays a very similar role.

Why wouldn't we be going after skill players if we're giving up O'Reilly? These defensive or two way types are much easier to find via UFA or trade than a player like MDZ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I don't think the Rangers would move Miller or Kreider. They stood fast when CLB asked for them in the Nash deal. They are very high on both.
Kreider maybe, but the rumored last offer to Columbus for Nash at the deadline last year included Miller. The final deal was basically the same, except instead of Miller and Christian Thomas, it was Anisimov.

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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You were the one saying you never seen him get burned. It's possible you have a different definition of what getting burned is than the one I use.

I guess it's easier if I just post a clip. People can make up their mind if del Zottos skating was a problem here (start of a shift too, so he wasn't exhausted) or if he got burned or not.


He may have been skating the wrong way and had to turn around, or maybe you're right and he isn't a speed demon. NYR Boyler87 is right though, I don't think that's a fair clip to post to prove this. Did you see how lightning fast Cole was skating there? I'm not even sure Duchene could have caught him on that play. I didn't even know Cole had that kind of speed anymore after all his injuries.

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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Those are the ones we actually have a chance at, I would add Horton to this list, Bozak and MacArthur are third liners but we also need a third line LW on top of a third line center. Clowe is way to old for this team.
How is Clowe too old for this team? He's only 30, and this team desperately needs some veteran leadership. Especially with Hejduk's likely retirement, and ROB and possibly other defenseman's departures this summer.

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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Posted this a couple of pages back TPS, but didn't want you to miss it, your response would be interesting on this matter.

A Bruins fan on the Trade Board pointed me in the direction of a Twitter ran by a Mr. Dominic Tiano, who apparently does the following, according to his Twitter Bio: "Cover the OHL's draft eligible players for the NHL Draft for OHL Writers and In the O Radio", here's some of his Tweets on the matter.

What I find interesting is supposedly the Bruins are the team that he'd "like to play for one day" as stated in the above Tweet. So again, something that apparently got overlooked. This Dom gentleman is to the Bruins board what you are for us....if you just want to respond w/ a simple "Yes" or "No" that'd be fine as well
This sounds like the Yandle "rumor." Someone probably asked him if he'd like to play in Boston if he was traded there, and he said yea sure. That got cut into a sound byte, grew legs, and got turned into "Ryan O'Reilly/Keith Yandle/Whoever wants to play for the Bruins."

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Man, people are harsh on MDZ. He's a 22 year old defenseman. He isn't a finished product. Kulikov seems to be glorified on here, but he's got his own issues and isn't a finished product either. If we're trading for a young defenseman, they aren't going to be fully developed so be prepared to deal with some growing pains.
Seriously, it's like if it's not a home run return, people have to shoot it so full of holes there's nothing there at all. Kulikov has way more question marks, and concerns about what kind of finished product he'll be. Same with Bogosian. Not to mention an 18 year old prospect like Trouba who's never played an NHL game.

I didn't think this board was as bad as the rest of HF, where potential and draft picks vastly outweigh more proven talent. It's starting to grow quickly in that direction though.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 02-20-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 11:50 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Sadly we're right back to square one (or more correctly, have never left square one).

The Avs are being bull headed and the O'Reilly camp is feeling betrayed, neither of them have their wits about them to put out the burning bridges and Avs fans are on a collision course with the bridge, we'll either fall off the cliff or make it across depending on how both sides play the rest of this out.

Curious, but do you have any expectations on if this thing will continue to be drawn out or if it will reach a conclusion anytime soon?
Bull headed is correct, but I really am hoping the both sides will stay bull headed until summer and not talk at all (even to Dater via e-mail) and that the Avs continue too ask for more in a trade than anyone will pay. Then come back fresh with both sides clearing the slate. I think a deal can be done, but in the Avs defense, the NYRs often take a hard line with contracts, and still get the deals done.
Can't remember who said it, but they basically said Sather's approach is (paraphrasing) You'll get the money, but you've got to wait your turn.

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02-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Bull headed is correct, but I really am hoping the both sides will stay bull headed until summer and not talk at all (even to Dater via e-mail) and that the Avs continue too ask for more in a trade than anyone will pay. Then come back fresh with both sides clearing the slate. I think a deal can be done, but in the Avs defense, the NYRs often take a hard line with contracts, and still get the deals done.
Can't remember who said it, but they basically said Sather's approach is (paraphrasing) You'll get the money, but you've got to wait your turn.
That is Sather's MO with his RFA's for sure.

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02-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
You don't usually just read two words and then shake your head right? I clearly disagreed with you on principle that it isn't a top priority for this team to acquire a redundant player like Little, and an unproven prospect.

I'm not terribly familiar with Trouba. Apparently you guys have seen all his games so maybe you can enlighten me. I was under the impression he was a very good shutdown guy with some offensive upside. I got corrected saying no, no, not at all. He's a shutdown guy with a wicked slapper. Sounds the same to me.

Maybe you can set the record straight to what he is, and what he projects to be, because I don't see a strong need for a guy like that, and an easy way to get burned in a trade if they end being a solid NHL defensive defensman that puts up 25 points on a season. Not to mention we have Siemens who sounds like he plays a very similar role.

Why wouldn't we be going after skill players if we're giving up O'Reilly? These defensive or two way types are much easier to find via UFA or trade than a player like MDZ.
Trouba - I think at worse his 'floor' is probably a #4 two-way guy kind of like - Kevin Klein from Nashville or Boychuk from Boston and his ceiling is top pairing guy. I see him being like Erik Johnson in a lot of ways.

The point for me is that there's a good chance to hit a home run with a prospect like this. A guy that could very well become a lot better than MDZ in 2-3 years. I guess I just don't see MDZ as being that much better than either Barrie and/or Elliott (if at all) when these guys start playing consistently at the NHL level. [I know a lot of people will disagree with that but it's my opinion]

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Old
02-20-2013, 12:03 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Bull headed is correct, but I really am hoping the both sides will stay bull headed until summer and not talk at all (even to Dater via e-mail) and that the Avs continue too ask for more in a trade than anyone will pay. Then come back fresh with both sides clearing the slate. I think a deal can be done, but in the Avs defense, the NYRs often take a hard line with contracts, and still get the deals done.
Can't remember who said it, but they basically said Sather's approach is (paraphrasing) You'll get the money, but you've got to wait your turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
That is Sather's MO with his RFA's for sure.
This is basically Sherman and PL's approach too, they just don't know how to convey this to players in negotiations without sounding like complete ***holes. Ultimately resulting in guys feeling unappreciated and wanting to leave.

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02-20-2013, 12:05 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Trouba - I think at worse his 'floor' is probably a #4 two-way guy kind of like - Kevin Klein from Nashville or Boychuk from Boston and his ceiling is top pairing guy. I see him being like Erik Johnson in a lot of ways.

The point for me is that there's a good chance to hit a home run with a prospect like this. A guy that could very well become a lot better than MDZ in 2-3 years. I guess I just don't see MDZ as being that much better than either Barrie and/or Elliott (if at all) when these guys start playing consistently at the NHL level. [I know a lot of people will disagree with that but it's my opinion]
I don't disagree with that. I just have high hopes for these guys. I'm hoping both will be top 4, with one being top pairing. If MDZ develops as a top pairing D, I'd be tickled. We don't necessarily need 2 top pairing PMDs, but that's not a bad problem to have.

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02-20-2013, 12:17 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Trouba - I think at worse his 'floor' is probably a #4 two-way guy kind of like - Kevin Klein from Nashville or Boychuk from Boston and his ceiling is top pairing guy. I see him being like Erik Johnson in a lot of ways.

The point for me is that there's a good chance to hit a home run with a prospect like this. A guy that could very well become a lot better than MDZ in 2-3 years. I guess I just don't see MDZ as being that much better than either Barrie and/or Elliott (if at all) when these guys start playing consistently at the NHL level. [I know a lot of people will disagree with that but it's my opinion]
And aren't you worried about trading for a guy like Boychuk in return for O'Reilly? Do we really need to be taking gambles on this trade like that?

Maybe he could be better in some ways than MDZ, but I feel like you guys are really painting him with an unfair brush, while using the absolute top end of other players and prospects as comparables. Barrie and Elliott for example. Barrie just scored his first NHL goal the other day, and his first NHL point a few games ago.

MDZ is 22 and Barrie is 21. They're a year apart in the draft. MDZ has a 37 and a 41 point season under his belt already. Why is it you are so confident, and can be so patient with a guy like Barrie, but MDZ is the final product already and since he isn't Kyle Cumiskey in the skating department, or EJ in his own zone, he isn't worth trading for? He broke a much deeper blueline, and one of the deepest in the league two years ago. Barrie is just now starting to fit in, and both he and Elliott obviously still have big concerns with their defensive game.

Apart from them being our prospects, where is the evidence that makes you believe they'll be at or above MDZ's final product when he fully develops? He was better defensively and offensively two years ago, than what Barrie is right now.

I'd like to remind people the wonders this team has done with players who had their skating criticized. I don't know if they have a special guy or girl they go to, but Stastny, O'Reilly, Landy, Stewart, even Shattenkirk I believe at one point had concerns over their skating ability.

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Old
02-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
This is basically Sherman and PL's approach too, they just don't know how to convey this to players in negotiations without sounding like complete ***holes. Ultimately resulting in guys feeling unappreciated and wanting to leave.
Yup.

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02-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
And aren't you worried about trading for a guy like Boychuk in return for O'Reilly? Do we really need to be taking gambles on this trade like that?

Maybe he could be better in some ways than MDZ, but I feel like you guys are really painting him with an unfair brush, while using the absolute top end of other players and prospects as comparables. Barrie and Elliott for example. Barrie just scored his first NHL goal the other day, and his first NHL point a few games ago.

MDZ is 22 and Barrie is 21. They're a year apart in the draft. MDZ has a 37 and a 41 point season under his belt already. Why is it you are so confident, and can be so patient with a guy like Barrie, but MDZ is the final product already and since he isn't Kyle Cumiskey in the skating department, or EJ in his own zone, he isn't worth trading for? He broke a much deeper blueline, and one of the deepest in the league two years ago. Barrie is just now starting to fit in, and both he and Elliott obviously still have big concerns with their defensive game.

Apart from them being our prospects, where is the evidence that makes you believe they'll be at or above MDZ's final product when he fully develops? He was better defensively and offensively two years ago, than what Barrie is right now.

I'd like to remind people the wonders this team has done with players who had their skating criticized. I don't know if they have a special guy or girl they go to, but Stastny, O'Reilly, Landy, Stewart, even Shattenkirk I believe at one point had concerns over their skating ability.
Perhaps I can interject. Maybe the reason people are hesitant with MDZ is that he is supposed to be the roster player part of the deal not the prospect? Some would like a more polished roster player and a prospect. Just trying to understand where others are coming from.

With that said, I think you hit it on the head. Hes young and has had a couple of decent seasons under his belt.

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02-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
Perhaps I can interject. Maybe the reason people are hesitant with MDZ is that he is supposed to be the roster player part of the deal not the prospect? Some would like a more polished roster player and a prospect. Just trying to understand where others are coming from.

With that said, I think you hit it on the head. Hes young and has had a couple of decent seasons under his belt.
So how is Bryan Little the better roster player part of the deal? That's what I'm sayin.

I agree the priority should be for a proven roster player, but I think MDZ has proven enough to feel comfortable with what the Avs are getting. Plus he's 22 and has room to grow.

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02-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
So how is Bryan Little the better roster player part of the deal? That's what I'm sayin.

I agree the priority should be for a proven roster player, but I think MDZ has proven enough to feel comfortable with what the Avs are getting. Plus he's 22 and has room to grow.
I agree with you. Most seasons it looks like Little puts up just a few more points than MDZ does and hes a winger not a dman.

Like I said before I would be ok with MDZ and Kreider coming our way. MDZ looks to be pretty decent and could potentially QB our PP.

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02-20-2013, 12:54 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
I agree with you. Most seasons it looks like Little puts up just a few more points than MDZ does and hes a winger not a dman.

Like I said before I would be ok with MDZ and Kreider coming our way. MDZ looks to be pretty decent and could potentially QB our PP.
If Kreider is going your way the Rangers would ask for Barrie. Just being honest. They can't move a top prospect + a top-4 22 year old d-man for a hold out.

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02-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
More I read about the little things about ROR, the more I dislike the guy.. Shocked at some of the things he's said, or better yet, some of the things he's written. .
Please be sure to have the proper info befoirewriting something. His dad was the one talking not ROR.

It is hard for you to sell us the greatness of MDZ when you make comments like this one.

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02-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #190
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If Kreider is going your way the Rangers would ask for Barrie. Just being honest. They can't move a top prospect + a top-4 22 year old d-man for a hold out.
Then the deal isn't likely for the NYR. I don't think Barrie is all that touchable right now. He is starting to show how good he can be, the Avs would trade Elliott instead.

I personally don't feel the NYR are a very good fit for ROR either. He won't sign a bridge deal easily, and Sather hasn't shown that he would ever give in.

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02-20-2013, 12:58 PM
  #191
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If Kreider is going your way the Rangers would ask for Barrie. Just being honest. They can't move a top prospect + a top-4 22 year old d-man for a hold out.
Agreed. I really dont want to lose Barrie with the way he is playing. Im not sure they would take (or we should give mostly) Elliott. He has so much potential.

Just curious...

Whats the value of MDZ...would they need to add for ROR?

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02-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #192
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Then the deal isn't likely for the NYR. I don't think Barrie is all that touchable right now. He is starting to show how good he can be, the Avs would trade Elliott instead.

I personally don't feel the NYR are a very good fit for ROR either. He won't sign a bridge deal easily, and Sather hasn't shown that he would ever give in.
And that's fine if that's the case. I just don't see Sather overpaying for a player who isn't signed. The Rangers organization as a whole are VERY high on Kreider. Hence why they rushed him into the playoffs last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
Agreed. I really dont want to lose Barrie with the way he is playing. Im not sure they would take (or we should give mostly) Elliott. He has so much potential.

Just curious...

Whats the value of MDZ...would they need to add for ROR?
I don't think the value is that far off for a MDZ for ROR deal. Maybe I'm wrong, but considering everything involved....

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02-20-2013, 01:07 PM
  #193
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This may have already been posted, but...

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Ryan O'Reilly practicing with the Knights. Remarked that we all want to know he ends up. He said, "Me too." #NHL pic.twitter.com/gOOLcERr
www.twitter.com/NormanJamesCTV

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02-20-2013, 01:09 PM
  #194
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Alzner/Bogosian over MDZ or Carlson for me as an example. Not because they're better players. A potential no1 dman with both offensive/defensive ability is far better than a potential no2 type dman like Alzner/Bogosian.

The reason is because Alzner/Bogo are safer bets for us. They'd provide some steady defence and less of a chance of boom/bust imo then MDZ.

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02-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #195
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While some of the packages thrown about over the past few days are nice to think about, I'm not really sure that we can get much more than a guy like MDZ for O'reilly right now. Which is why whatever return we end up getting for him will be disappointing.

MDZ is a good player, I'd be happy to have him on the Avs, but he never stands out to me in a "best player on the ice" kind of way the way O'reilly often did last season.

That said the O'reilly camp seem incapable of behaving rationally and so I don't think we can really maintain any hope of re-signing him. And if he's going to have crazy contract demands for any new team, good luck asking a king's ransom for him.

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02-20-2013, 01:13 PM
  #196
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You mean his dad, right? Ryan himself is a very humble, competitive and intelligent guy. I still believe he is being given terrible advice and has his judgement clouded by those around him.

Who among us can say that as a teenager they were not overly influenced by their parents?

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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Contradicting yourself there a little aren't you?

Claiming to us Avs fans that we need to watch more of MDZ before gaining an opinion of him, yet disliking ROR more and more because of the things HIS DAD(Not ROR) has said, that have no bearing on ROR.

Maybe you should read some of the things about ROR from last year before coming to a decisive conclusion about him.
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Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
Please be sure to have the proper info befoirewriting something. His dad was the one talking not ROR.

It is hard for you to sell us the greatness of MDZ when you make comments like this one.
It actually had nothing to do with his fathers comments. It was more about his opinions regarding medicine. Everything's a conspiracy.

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02-20-2013, 01:16 PM
  #197
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This may have already been posted, but...



www.twitter.com/NormanJamesCTV
So, is his foot injury all healed up?

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02-20-2013, 01:17 PM
  #198
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Alzner/Bogosian over MDZ or Carlson for me as an example. Not because they're better players. A potential no1 dman with both offensive/defensive ability is far better than a potential no2 type dman like Alzner/Bogosian.

The reason is because Alzner/Bogo are safer bets for us. They'd provide some steady defence and less of a chance of boom/bust imo then MDZ.
You can't talk about the potential of Bogo and then call MDZ a boom or bust. MDZ is already proven as an offensive D man, he's not going to bust. Bogo's ability to stay healthy and ultimate offensive production are as big if not bigger concerns than anything from MDZ IMO.

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02-20-2013, 01:18 PM
  #199
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It actually had nothing to do with his fathers comments. It was more about his opinions regarding medicine. Everything's a conspiracy.
Link?

I know of his father's insane dislike of psychiatrists, medicine, and anything which resembles logical reasoning but where has Ryan said anything on the topic?

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02-20-2013, 01:19 PM
  #200
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A straight up deal that I think could work would be Bobby Ryan for ROR. but the ducks are killing it right now so I'm sure they aren't looking for any major moves

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