HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-20-2013, 12:45 PM
  #151
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,870
vCash: 500
Cody McCormick on waivers, can he play 3rd line minutes though?

Vitto79 is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #152
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Totally agree.

Still want ROR though....

The more this team struggles like last night, the more apt Sather is to make a big deal.
well after watching MDZ on the PP late in the third, it's clear to me at least, that I'd like to see him moved for ROR. He can't handle a pass, passes when he should shoot, and passes to imaginary players out of the zone.

NikC is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 12:50 PM
  #153
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Cody McCormick on waivers, can he play 3rd line minutes though?
No!!!!!!! Borderline 4th liner with some toughness. Skates alright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
well after watching MDZ on the PP late in the third, it's clear to me at least, that I'd like to see him moved for ROR. He can't handle a pass, passes when he should shoot, and passes to imaginary players out of the zone.
I try not to use knee-jerk reactions too much but I haven't thought that highly of MDZ for a little while now.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #154
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
No!!!!!!! Borderline 4th liner with some toughness. Skates alright.



I try not to use knee-jerk reactions too much but I haven't thought that highly of MDZ for a little while now.
like you i'm sure, i watch every game, and every game MDZ played in. I realize he's young and developing, but he makes costly mistakes at crucial times in games, over and over. I see his value, and I like what he brings, but since his back to back blunders in last year's playoffs against NJ that cost us both games, i haven't felt the same about him... not a big fan.

ROR makes too much sense esp with the potential buyout next July with BR...

NikC is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 12:58 PM
  #155
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,067
vCash: 500
Can someone fill me in on why exactly ROR is valued so highly? He has 39 career goals over 3 years and is currently holding out on a team that just last year he was in the conversation for captain of. I didn't follow the Avs closely last year. I just don't get why people are so high on this guy. Can someone fill me in?

haveandare is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 12:58 PM
  #156
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
like you i'm sure, i watch every game, and every game MDZ played in. I realize he's young and developing, but he makes costly mistakes at crucial times in games, over and over. I see his value, and I like what he brings, but since his back to back blunders in last year's playoffs against NJ that cost us both games, i haven't felt the same about him... not a big fan.

ROR makes too much sense esp with the potential buyout next July with BR...
I am thinking about nothing other than value for value. ROR > MDZ

That is my opinion from watching them both play and where the needs of this organization are both now and in the future. Even if Richards isn't bought out, they will need a center like ROR. Every team in the league would want a center like him.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:00 PM
  #157
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Can someone fill me in on why exactly ROR is valued so highly? He has 39 career goals over 3 years and is currently holding out on a team that just last year he was in the conversation for captain of. I didn't follow the Avs closely last year. I just don't get why people are so high on this guy. Can someone fill me in?
21 year old with 55 points as one of the only offensive forces on his team. Plays a VERY good 2-way game. Led the league in takeaways. Plays consistently against the other teams best players. Good vision, good work ethic, high hockey IQ.

He reminds me of Patrice Bergeron.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #158
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,067
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
21 year old with 55 points as one of the only offensive forces on his team. Plays a VERY good 2-way game. Led the league in takeaways. Plays consistently against the other teams best players. Good vision, good work ethic, high hockey IQ.

He reminds me of Patrice Bergeron.
Did he show that type of play before last season? And is there reason to believe he's capable of taking another step offensively?

haveandare is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #159
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,143
vCash: 500
Boyler, you keep saying how great ROR is and keep saying how MDZ does nothing well. So why would the Avs trade ROR AND Barrie for MDZ and a guy that should be a 4th center? Doesn't make sense. Unless they're desperate and we're the only suitors. At least the second half of that doesn't sound like it's the case.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:06 PM
  #160
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Did he show that type of play before last season? And is there reason to believe he's capable of taking another step offensively?
He was put in a defenseive role his first (2) years in the league. He was their shut-down center, still played against the other teams best players which is impressive for an 18 and 19 year old in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Boyler, you keep saying how great ROR is and keep saying how MDZ does nothing well. So why would the Avs trade ROR AND Barrie for MDZ and a guy that should be a 4th center? Doesn't make sense. Unless they're desperate and we're the only suitors. At least the second half of that doesn't sound like it's the case.
It's not that MDZ does nothing well. It's that I don't see him doing things THAT much better than the other players I see around him in McDonagh, Staal and Girardi. He is a good player. On this team he is the #3 LD. Staal, McDonagh and MDZ don't look good on their off-side. Staal and McDonagh are better than MDZ.

Maximize the asset. Puck-movers are at a premium in todays NHL. Whether that is right or wrong that is for another discussion.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:15 PM
  #161
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 5,067
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He was put in a defenseive role his first (2) years in the league. He was their shut-down center, still played against the other teams best players which is impressive for an 18 and 19 year old in the NHL.



It's not that MDZ does nothing well. It's that I don't see him doing things THAT much better than the other players I see around him in McDonagh, Staal and Girardi. He is a good player. On this team he is the #3 LD. Staal, McDonagh and MDZ don't look good on their off-side. Staal and McDonagh are better than MDZ.

Maximize the asset. Puck-movers are at a premium in todays NHL. Whether that is right or wrong that is for another discussion.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.

I'm still not really sold on the idea though honestly. He hasn't established himself as an offensive threat, which we should be looking for in any C coming in with speculation about Richards' future, he's showing a tremendous lack of character in his dealings with the Avs, we don't have anyone to take MDZ's spot off the bat if he were to go for him and the guy hasn't played a minute of NHL hockey all year while our team is still struggling to find their legs and heads after the late start.

haveandare is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:15 PM
  #162
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He was put in a defenseive role his first (2) years in the league. He was their shut-down center, still played against the other teams best players which is impressive for an 18 and 19 year old in the NHL.



It's not that MDZ does nothing well. It's that I don't see him doing things THAT much better than the other players I see around him in McDonagh, Staal and Girardi. He is a good player. On this team he is the #3 LD. Staal, McDonagh and MDZ don't look good on their off-side. Staal and McDonagh are better than MDZ.

Maximize the asset. Puck-movers are at a premium in todays NHL. Whether that is right or wrong that is for another discussion.
Is the quote that you posted a secret that just you and maybe other Rangers fans know?

Quote:
What does he bring? People call him a puck-mover, I don't see these great passes he makes consistently. Maybe a random home-run pass to Gaborik or Nash. McDonagh and Girardi make those passes too. He doesn't join the rush more than anyone else. He doesn't create chances on the blue-line with the puck. What does he bring?

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:18 PM
  #163
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Interesting. Thanks for the info.

I'm still not really sold on the idea though honestly. He hasn't established himself as an offensive threat, which we should be looking for in any C coming in with speculation about Richards' future, he's showing a tremendous lack of character in his dealings with the Avs, we don't have anyone to take MDZ's spot off the bat if he were to go for him and the guy hasn't played a minute of NHL hockey all year while our team is still struggling to find their legs and heads after the late start.
Maybe. All I can comment on is I like the player. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes between he, his agent and the Avs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Is the quote that you posted a secret that just you and maybe other Rangers fans know?
There are trades like this all the time. Teams look and see 40+ points from a 22 year old defenseman with a ton of hits. Playoff experience. top-4 minutes.

We have the ability to watch him every game.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #164
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Maybe. All I can comment on is I like the player. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes between he, his agent and the Avs.



There are trades like this all the time. Teams look and see 40+ points from a 22 year old defenseman with a ton of hits. Playoff experience. top-4 minutes.

We have the ability to watch him every game.
I'd sure be disappointed if Rangers scouts new less about ROR than Avs fans on a message board. It's their job to look beyond the numbers.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:31 PM
  #165
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I'd sure be disappointed if Rangers scouts new less about ROR than Avs fans on a message board. It's their job to look beyond the numbers.
You're missing my point.

MDZ fits more of a need for Colorado than he does for the NYR. Hence he holds more value to them than he does to NY. ROR would get a bigger role in the long-run than MDZ would. Hence the deal makes sense.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:33 PM
  #166
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Interesting. Thanks for the info.

I'm still not really sold on the idea though honestly. He hasn't established himself as an offensive threat, which we should be looking for in any C coming in with speculation about Richards' future, he's showing a tremendous lack of character in his dealings with the Avs, we don't have anyone to take MDZ's spot off the bat if he were to go for him and the guy hasn't played a minute of NHL hockey all year while our team is still struggling to find their legs and heads after the late start.
Don't think about it in terms of this season. Think of it in the long-term.

Del Zotto will get paid his next contract. 5+ easily. For a guy who will always be behind McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi.

Tyson Barrie has just as much potential. Except he plays the right side, and is a better skater. Younger, and cheaper.

O'Reilly is comparable to Patrice Bergeron.

Colorado may not have a choice but to trade O'Reilly soon, and get value for him. Del Zotto and O'Reilly are fair value. But the Rangers would need a defenseman in return. That's where Barrie comes in. But to get him we have to up our package. Colorado would need a defensive center after losing O'Reilly. Boyle is young enough, and fits the role. We would have to add a bit more, 2nd tier prospect and pick. We have 3 3rds. Probably a 4th 3rd if we don't reach the Cup Finals, which is the condition of that pick from the Nash deal.

It's a deal that makes sense for both clubs.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #167
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
I cannot comprehend Richards's drop-off in play.
I can. He didn't play during the lockout when he should have been.

Championship* is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #168
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,475
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Don't think about it in terms of this season. Think of it in the long-term.

Del Zotto will get paid his next contract. 5+ easily. For a guy who will always be behind McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi.

Tyson Barrie has just as much potential. Except he plays the right side, and is a better skater. Younger, and cheaper.

O'Reilly is comparable to Patrice Bergeron.

Colorado may not have a choice but to trade O'Reilly soon, and get value for him. Del Zotto and O'Reilly are fair value. But the Rangers would need a defenseman in return. That's where Barrie comes in. But to get him we have to up our package. Colorado would need a defensive center after losing O'Reilly. Boyle is young enough, and fits the role. We would have to add a bit more, 2nd tier prospect and pick. We have 3 3rds. Probably a 4th 3rd if we don't reach the Cup Finals, which is the condition of that pick from the Nash deal.

It's a deal that makes sense for both clubs.
I am lightening up to this. If there is a deal, it should be exactly as you speculate

BBKers is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #169
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
You're missing my point.

MDZ fits more of a need for Colorado than he does for the NYR. Hence he holds more value to them than he does to NY. ROR would get a bigger role in the long-run than MDZ would. Hence the deal makes sense.
Yeah but part of your reasoning was to say how much value puck moving D-men have while a few posts before you said he wasn't a puck moving D-man. Unless the Avs have ****** scouts, then that seems like a contradiction.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #170
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
O'Reilly hasn't said anything during this whole process. All the conspiracy comments and other nonsense have come from his dad.

The only inside info we have into Ryan's mindset, is from someone here who knows him, and that basically they were close to a deal in the summer, and then something happened or was said during negotiations which Ryan too personally, and that caused a rift between some of the suits in the Avs organization and him.
From the Avs board. They had someone who knows O'Reill say they were close over the summer but something happened that threw them off and both parties dug their heels in. Not sure what it was though.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:40 PM
  #171
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Yeah but part of your reasoning was to say how much value puck moving D-men have while a few posts before you said he wasn't a puck moving D-man. Unless the Avs have ****** scouts, then that seems like a contradiction.
I don't consider him a puck-moving d-man as compared to others I have seen in my lifetime. In today's NHL where the term is used more loosely, yes, he is.

Also, Scott Gomez was a playmaking center as a UFA. He got to the Rangers and didn't look much like one to me.

Watching a player everyday shows a lot. Scouting a player is great, but most scouts can't watch every game of every league of every year. Not enough time and people.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:43 PM
  #172
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am lightening up to this. If there is a deal, it should be exactly as you speculate
I hope so, too.

And with Richards' situation. 34 yrs old after the 13-14 season, with 6 years remaining at 6.6 per.

Buy him out.

At that point Miller will have had two years NHL experience. Lindberg will most likely be here.

O'Reilly
Stepan
Miller
Lindberg

Finally growing a young group of two way centers.

Nieves soon after.

And on defense, Skjei, McIlrath, Barrie added to McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal. Maybe Stralman sticks around?

Long-term, losing Del Zotto doesn't hurt us. This season maybe.

I like Del Zotto. But something has to give, given the financials long-term and depth in one area and lack of it in others.

It makes a lot of sense when you put the puzzle pieces together.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:43 PM
  #173
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am lightening up to this. If there is a deal, it should be exactly as you speculate
If we could get ROR and Barrie for MDZ, Boyle and a pick I would do that in a heartbeat. I think Michael can still be a very good player but the best player in the deal would be ROR. Count me in.

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:44 PM
  #174
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
O'Reilly is comparable to Patrice Bergeron.
I have seen that quote around this thread quite a bit, can somebody expand on it.
I disagree with the premise. But I can be convinced.

Kwayry is offline  
Old
02-20-2013, 01:45 PM
  #175
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I don't consider him a puck-moving d-man as compared to others I have seen in my lifetime. In today's NHL where the term is used more loosely, yes, he is.

Also, Scott Gomez was a playmaking center as a UFA. He got to the Rangers and didn't look much like one to me.

Watching a player everyday shows a lot. Scouting a player is great, but most scouts can't watch every game of every league of every year. Not enough time and people.
I don't consider Del Zotto a puck moving defenseman, either. He has offensive skills, no doubt. But he lacks the foot speed and ability to control the tempo of the game to be a consistent threat.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.