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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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02-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #201
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You can't talk about the potential of Bogo and then call MDZ a boom or bust. MDZ is already proven as an offensive D man, he's not going to bust. Bogo's ability to stay healthy and ultimate offensive production are as big if not bigger concerns than anything from MDZ IMO.
I agree with this. A pickup like MDZ lets us know exactly what we are going to get. I'd prefer to know what we are getting in a roster player, and then get the high potential out of the prospect. Little + Trouba would be a hell of a pull for the Avs IMO. Little brings in a solid 2nd line player with some versatility and Trouba would bring in the high potential D.

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02-20-2013, 01:22 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
Alzner/Bogosian over MDZ or Carlson for me as an example. Not because they're better players. A potential no1 dman with both offensive/defensive ability is far better than a potential no2 type dman like Alzner/Bogosian.

The reason is because Alzner/Bogo are safer bets for us. They'd provide some steady defence and less of a chance of boom/bust imo then MDZ.
Bogosion is anything but a safe bet. Same age as Del Zotto, has had some injury issues, and Del Zotto has not one but two seasons of more production offensively.

I think Bogosion would be a big risk.

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02-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #203
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A straight up deal that I think could work would be Bobby Ryan for ROR. but the ducks are killing it right now so I'm sure they aren't looking for any major moves
I HIGHLY doubt the ducks would do that. Ryan is a proven scorer and ROR, while good defensively, has had one 55 point season. Ryan has potential to put up more goals in a season that ROR puts up points. Im exaggerating of course but the point stands.

Thats said...OMG RYAN would look awesome in an Avs sweater.

Maybe throw Jones in

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02-20-2013, 01:24 PM
  #204
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More I read about the little things about ROR, the more I dislike the guy.. Shocked at some of the things he's said, or better yet, some of the things he's written.
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It actually had nothing to do with his fathers comments. It was more about his opinions regarding medicine. Everything's a conspiracy.
O'Reilly hasn't said anything during this whole process. All the conspiracy comments and other nonsense have come from his dad.

The only inside info we have into Ryan's mindset, is from someone here who knows him, and that basically they were close to a deal in the summer, and then something happened or was said during negotiations which Ryan too personally, and that caused a rift between some of the suits in the Avs organization and him.

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02-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #205
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Not to hold the Avs completely blameless in this mess, as they perhaps could have handled things better....

But after reading O'Reilly's fathers manifesto on the situation I am leaning 90% towards the O'Reilly camp being to blame on this matter....with most of the blame going to O'Reilly's dad. The guy is clueless towards the workings of the NHL and the value of players. If I knew anyone that was using him as a "life coach" or whatever it is he does I would tell them to fire him.

Character is important, and that's why guys with bricks for hands and that skate like they are in sand get jobs in the NHL and oftentimes get a bit more than we expect. But to get the big bucks you have to have more than character and one slightly above average season.

Lindros part 2 for the Avs/Nords Franchise. Ditch your dad as a coach/manager/career adviser Ryan and keep him as just your dad. Your career and life will thank you.

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02-20-2013, 01:27 PM
  #206
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O'Reilly hasn't said anything during this whole process. All the conspiracy comments and other nonsense have come from his dad.

The only inside info we have into Ryan's mindset, is from someone here who knows him, and that basically they were close to a deal in the summer, and then something happened or was said during negotiations which Ryan too personally, and that caused a rift between some of the suits in the Avs organization and him.
Thought I read somewhere he he was blaming medicine for the Newtown shootings, or... Bahhh.. I need to re-read that before making a fool out of myself.. Might be too late for that, but what the hell

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02-20-2013, 01:28 PM
  #207
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Thought I read somewhere he he was blaming medicine for the Newtown shootings, or... Bahhh.. I need to re-read that before making a fool out of myself.. Might be too late for that, but what the hell
Nah, that was Papa Bear. Who could learn a great deal from his son as Ryan has kept his mouth shut through all of this.

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02-20-2013, 01:29 PM
  #208
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Thought I read somewhere he he was blaming medicine for the Newtown shootings, or... Bahhh.. I need to re-read that before making a fool out of myself.. Might be too late for that, but what the hell
You had "food" not "fool" before! And I was going to make a witty comment on it, but then you had to go and change it!

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02-20-2013, 01:29 PM
  #209
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I agree with this. A pickup like MDZ lets us know exactly what we are going to get. I'd prefer to know what we are getting in a roster player, and then get the high potential out of the prospect. Little + Trouba would be a hell of a pull for the Avs IMO. Little brings in a solid 2nd line player with some versatility and Trouba would bring in the high potential D.
Except this team has no need for a 40-50pt winger. They have plenty of serviceable wingers. Besides goaltending right now, that is the last thing this team needs to address on the current or future roster. Especially when there's a decent chance they come out of the drat with Drouin.

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02-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #210
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Thought I read somewhere he he was blaming medicine for the Newtown shootings, or... Bahhh.. I need to re-read that before making a fool out of myself.. Might be too late for that, but what the hell
That was his imbalanced and unmedicated father. Who knows how much Ryan buys into that crap though. At the very least, I would say it's probably nowhere near his level.

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02-20-2013, 01:34 PM
  #211
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Except this team has no need for a 40-50pt winger. They have plenty of serviceable wingers. Besides goaltending right now, that is the last thing this team needs to address on the current or future roster. Especially when there's a decent chance they come out of the drat with Drouin.
That's a silly way to look at things until we know exactly how successfully Joe Sacco pulls off this tank, if we trade Ryan before then and get back a Dman we could still tank hard enough to get Jones, is that then a problem?

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02-20-2013, 01:34 PM
  #212
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Nah, that was Papa Bear. Who could learn a great deal from his son as Ryan has kept his mouth shut through all of this.
Shocked - I read the comments about medicine before his father's nonsense came out. Or maybe I traveled in time again.. Hmmm..

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You had "food" not "fool" before! And I was going to make a witty comment on it, but then you had to go and change it!
Hahaha, autocorrect likes to troll me sometimes. Posting from my phone has its pros and cons..


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02-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #213
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Shocked - I read the comments about medicine before his father's nonsense came out. Or maybe I traveled in time again.. Hmmm..
His father has had a lot more than the one instance of nonsense.

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02-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #214
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Except this team has no need for a 40-50pt winger. They have plenty of serviceable wingers. Besides goaltending right now, that is the last thing this team needs to address on the current or future roster. Especially when there's a decent chance they come out of the drat with Drouin.
I will give you that winger is a far less need than Defense, but Jones is horrid. McGinn is doing well with Duchene and PAP.

When Lando comes back if we added a 40-50pt winger in jones' stead...our second line becomes as dangerous as our first and our third line would have some scoring potential with downie mitchel and jones next year...

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02-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #215
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Shocked - I read the comments about medicine before his father's nonsense came out. Or maybe I traveled in time again.. Hmmm..



Hahaha, autocorrect likes to troll me sometimes. Posting from my phone has its prowls and cans.
Must've cause that was Ryan's dad, Brian, posting on twitter.

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02-20-2013, 01:37 PM
  #216
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Maybe Torts needs a Life Coach.

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02-20-2013, 01:39 PM
  #217
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That's a silly way to look at things until we know exactly how successfully Joe Sacco pulls off this tank, if we trade Ryan before then and get back a Dman we could still tank hard enough to get Jones, is that then a problem?
The Drouin comment was an afterthought. With or without him, this team doesn't need a 40-50 pt winger. Not with Landy, McGinn, PAP, Jones, Downie, and any UFA's or prospects/draft picks that make their way into the lineup in the next few years.

What they don't have anywhere on the horizon except for some potential with Barrie and Elliott is a proven offensive defenseman. They'll have to overpay to get one as a UFA, and have trouble developing them. Wingers on the other hand, this team has done very well finding for reasonable deals in trade, or as UFA's like PAP.

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02-20-2013, 01:45 PM
  #218
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The Drouin comment was an afterthought. With or without him, this team doesn't need a 40-50 pt winger. Not with Landy, McGinn, PAP, Jones, Downie, and any UFA's or prospects/draft picks that make their way into the lineup in the next few years.

What they don't have anywhere on the horizon except for some potential with Barrie and Elliott is a proven offensive defenseman. They'll have to overpay to get one as a UFA, and have trouble developing them. Wingers on the other hand, this team has done very well finding for reasonable deals in trade, or as UFA's like PAP.
Liles, Shattenkirk, now Barrie, I'd say we do pretty well with offensive dmen to. What we don't do well is high end offensive wingers, and big top pairing dmen.

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02-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #219
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Liles, Shattenkirk, now Barrie, I'd say we do pretty well with offensive dmen to. What we don't do well is high end offensive wingers, and big top pairing dmen.
First of all Barrie has looked pretty good the last couple games, but is nowhere near declaring him an NHL success.

Second, you named two of the only three real NHL defenseman (Regehr) this team has drafted and developed in the last 20 years. This is not a strength of theirs.

Third, Little is in no way a high end offensive winger.

Fourth, no team except maybe Nashville does well with top pairing D men. They're extremely hard to find, and that's why the Avs need to do their best to get as close to one as possible with the biggest trade piece they've had in years.

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02-20-2013, 01:49 PM
  #220
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His father has had a lot more than the one instance of nonsense.
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Must've cause that was Ryan's dad, Brian, posting on twitter.
Well ****, there goes my reputation on this side of the board

Thought it was Ryan, not his father.. Explains a lot..

Changed my mind - I want him again

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02-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #221
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Well ****, there goes my reputation on this side of the board

Thought it was Ryan, not his father.. Explains a lot..

Changed my mind - I want him again
So do we, except I think you guys have a better chance at him.

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02-20-2013, 01:55 PM
  #222
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And aren't you worried about trading for a guy like Boychuk in return for O'Reilly? Do we really need to be taking gambles on this trade like that?

Maybe he could be better in some ways than MDZ, but I feel like you guys are really painting him with an unfair brush, while using the absolute top end of other players and prospects as comparables. Barrie and Elliott for example. Barrie just scored his first NHL goal the other day, and his first NHL point a few games ago.

MDZ is 22 and Barrie is 21. They're a year apart in the draft. MDZ has a 37 and a 41 point season under his belt already. Why is it you are so confident, and can be so patient with a guy like Barrie, but MDZ is the final product already and since he isn't Kyle Cumiskey in the skating department, or EJ in his own zone, he isn't worth trading for? He broke a much deeper blueline, and one of the deepest in the league two years ago. Barrie is just now starting to fit in, and both he and Elliott obviously still have big concerns with their defensive game.

Apart from them being our prospects, where is the evidence that makes you believe they'll be at or above MDZ's final product when he fully develops? He was better defensively and offensively two years ago, than what Barrie is right now.

I'd like to remind people the wonders this team has done with players who had their skating criticized. I don't know if they have a special guy or girl they go to, but Stastny, O'Reilly, Landy, Stewart, even Shattenkirk I believe at one point had concerns over their skating ability.
Ok first of all, that's Trouba's FLOOR. That means if all goes wrong, that's what we get.

As far as your second comment, what can I tell you? I don't like his game!!! Everytime I watch him, I'm underwhelmed. Do you want me to lie and say I don't see things this way? It's a matter of opinion. I know MDZ plays tons of minutes on the PP (over 4mins per game on avg last season | over 3 mins per game on avg this season) but the Rangers PP is terrible! Last in the NHL so far this year and 23rd overall last year. So, I just don't know what to tell you except that I absolutely trust my instincts when it comes to this sort of thing.

Maybe we'll look back on this thread in 2-3 years and the trade will have happened and it will be a positive thing or maybe the trade won't have happened and we'll be glad it didn't. We'll see.

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02-20-2013, 01:58 PM
  #223
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Except this team has no need for a 40-50pt winger. They have plenty of serviceable wingers. Besides goaltending right now, that is the last thing this team needs to address on the current or future roster. Especially when there's a decent chance they come out of the drat with Drouin.
I'd actually expect that Little would play more center than wing. When injuries are bad like they are now, you can put him on the wing. When things are good he can be the #3C between Palushaj and Downie. He would also give the Avs more flexibility when it comes to the Stastny situation as well. He could step into the #2C situation if Stastny left and that wasn't rectified through the draft. Little would simply add good all around depth for the top 6/9.

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02-20-2013, 02:00 PM
  #224
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This is basically Sherman and PL's approach too, they just don't know how to convey this to players in negotiations without sounding like complete ***holes. Ultimately resulting in guys feeling unappreciated and wanting to leave.
Unless of course your name is Erik Johnson, Steve Downie, Jamie McGinn or Matt Duchene.

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02-20-2013, 02:03 PM
  #225
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Ok first of all, that's Trouba's FLOOR. That means if all goes wrong, that's what we get.

As far as your second comment, what can I tell you? I don't like his game!!! Everytime I watch him, I'm underwhelmed. Do you want me to lie and say I don't see things this way? It's a matter of opinion. I know MDZ plays tons of minutes on the PP (over 4mins per game on avg last season | over 3 mins per game on avg this season) but the Rangers PP is terrible! Last in the NHL so far this year and 23rd overall last year. So, I just don't know what to tell you except that I absolutely trust my instincts when it comes to this sort of thing.

Maybe we'll look back on this thread in 2-3 years and the trade will have happened and it will be a positive thing or maybe the trade won't have happened and we'll be glad it didn't. We'll see.
Fair enough, and I think this illustrates our different preferences. If his ceiling is a similar player to EJ's floor right now like you say, where he's solid defensively, and chips in 20-30 points on a season, I don't see a strong need for another player like that if we're giving up O'Reilly. That's his ceiling, and I can see Siemens potentially playing a similar role, but maybe off on his point totals by 5-10.

They need to find a guy that can bring in more offense. 40+ points at worst, which is basically what MDZ is right now at 22 if he were to plateau out from here. An outlet passer alone would be a huge addition to this team that basically has no one capable of doing that well, except for the occasional one from Wilson. Let alone the rest of his game.

A player like Little that we don't need, and an unproven prospect that doesn't have a particularly high offensive ceiling is not a particularly appealing package to address this teams current and future needs IMO. I'll take an MDZ and Miller (or other piece) package any day of the week over that, even if they have to throw in a defenseman or mid round pick, as opposed to that Winny package straight up for O'Reilly.


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