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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:48 PM
  #126
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02-20-2013, 02:50 PM
  #127
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Seriously, has this team shown anything at any point that makes people think they're capable of playing a more creative offensive game?

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02-20-2013, 02:53 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Seriously, has this team shown anything at any point that makes people think they're capable of playing a more creative offensive game?
This is a coaching issue 100%
Nothing else
JAM, grind, dump and chase, block shots, grind...

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02-20-2013, 02:55 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Seriously, has this team shown anything at any point that makes people think they're capable of playing a more creative offensive game?
Other than the personnel who lace them up every night? No. Going to put this one on coaching.

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02-20-2013, 02:56 PM
  #130
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I don't understand. He was an offensive coach in Tampa and when he first came here.
Now he's ALL defense? Hmm.

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02-20-2013, 02:59 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
This is a coaching issue 100%
Nothing else
JAM, grind, dump and chase, block shots, grind...
Saying that isn't a convincing argument at all.

Playing that style got them very far last year. So far, this year, they've looked equally terribly playing like that and trying to skate the puck into the zone and get fancy. If they looked decent and carrying the puck in and they still didn't do it, that'd be one thing, but they look clueless trying to play that game outside of Nash, Hagelin and McD.

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02-20-2013, 03:01 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Other than the personnel who lace them up every night? No. Going to put this one on coaching.
Doesn't really answer the question.

Has this team looked good while trying to skate the puck into the zone and play a "creative" game? I think they've looked like garbage every time they've done that. Passes to nobody, terrible attempts to skate through the neutral zone etc.

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02-20-2013, 03:05 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Calad View Post
let's take a screen shot of a defensive breakdown then claim this is how the coach wants them to play!! rabble rabble rabble
Even if Boyle had Pacioretty covered on that play, they still wouldn't be able to transition worth a damn.

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02-20-2013, 03:08 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
I don't understand. He was an offensive coach in Tampa and when he first came here.
Now he's ALL defense? Hmm.
Look at this one

Power play goals in the NHL prior to this season

Rick Nash 83 goals in 692 games = 1 PP goal every 8,3 games
Marian Gaborik 95 goals in 791 games = 1 PP goal every 8,3 games
Brad Richards 92 goals in 952 games = 1 PP goal every 10,3 games

These three hired guns have scored 0 goals on the PP this .ZERO !!! In 44 games played combined. Or the following time alloted there on the PP (with numerous 5 on 3s as well!!):

PP Time
Gaborik 52:21
Nash 53:59
Richards 63:40

This cannot be put on only the players judging from their pasts - it is mostly the dismal "system" and coaching employed IMO!

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02-20-2013, 03:15 PM
  #135
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This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .

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02-20-2013, 03:16 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Saying that isn't a convincing argument at all.

Playing that style got them very far last year. So far, this year, they've looked equally terribly playing like that and trying to skate the puck into the zone and get fancy. If they looked decent and carrying the puck in and they still didn't do it, that'd be one thing, but they look clueless trying to play that game outside of Nash, Hagelin and McD.
Do you think the so-called system Torts stubbornly employs on offense, and the PP as well, is suited and optimal for key players like Gaborik, Stepan, Nash, Richards and Kreider ? If so, well.................. OK
Maybe Boyle, Callahan, Pyatt, Miller, the bottom 3 and to a certain point Hagelin can play this game succesfully- I can agree to that ---
but the main to go guys should be used entirely differently IMO as last year is just that, last year. Long gone... But stubborn Mr JAM guy will not and cannot adapt to this regardless who is on the team...

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02-20-2013, 03:19 PM
  #137
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Torts' stubbornness and refusal to adapt hinders this teams creativity and it leads to some of these extremely predictable and frustrating loses.

His system works for the most part, but he just doesn't want to tweak when things get rough.

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02-20-2013, 03:21 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .


You tell him, man.

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02-20-2013, 03:22 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .


Maybe my favorite post ever on HF. Just enough bad grammar and spelling to really nail the point home

I think Lindy>Torts, but you've gotta calm down!

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02-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .


And this, folks, is the anti-Torts crowd in a nutshell.

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02-20-2013, 03:33 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .
what did I just read? I don't like his system that much, but I honestly don't know what to think about this post.

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Old
02-20-2013, 03:36 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post


And this, folks, is the anti-Torts crowd in a nutshell.
Hardly
But it is brilliantly formulated post...

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02-20-2013, 03:41 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Do you think the so-called system Torts stubbornly employs on offense, and the PP as well, is suited and optimal for key players like Gaborik, Stepan, Nash, Richards and Kreider ? If so, well.................. OK
Maybe Boyle, Callahan, Pyatt, Miller, the bottom 3 and to a certain point Hagelin can play this game succesfully- I can agree to that ---
but the main to go guys should be used entirely differently IMO as last year is just that, last year. Long gone... But stubborn Mr JAM guy will not and cannot adapt to this regardless who is on the team...
I think Richards looks like garbage right now. I think he's making careless play after careless play and I think that asking for him to play a more "creative" game is only going to magnify those problems. He hasn't been able to carry the puck in and he hasn't been able to make smart passes. How is relying on him to do those things going to magically improve his ability?

I don't think Gaborik has ever had the skillset to carry the puck in himself and do the type of things that would be required of a 7+ million dollar player in a more open system, not to mention he was third in goals last year in the "so-called system" that the "clown" coach was so stupidly forcing him to play under.

I think Stepan has done just fine under Torts so far.

I think Kreider isn't ready for the NHL no matter what system he's in.

I think Nash is absolutely suited for a more open system along with Hagelin and McD, but I don't think that 3 players are enough to change an entire system for. Who else is going to carry the puck through the zone? Who else is going to possess the puck and make the slick plays required of a more open system?

This idea of "last year is last year" doesn't make sense to me. Last year was a normal 82 game NHL season, this season is a weird mess of a 48 game season with no preseason and short camp and a start that was not even sure to happen at all. Last year the same "system" that is being shat on over and over was in place and a team with the same core pieces put on their best performance in a long, long time. And last year the same complaints were made to start the season. There was a Fire Torts thread. It's the same idiotic cycle all over again only this time instead of learning from the past people are dismissing it, saying "last year was last year."

Let me ask you this: Why do you think that guys like Richards, Gaborik, Stepan and Kreider would be more effective in a different system? That was my original question. When have any of them shown an ability to do the things that are necessary to abandon dump, chase and grind and go into a more puck possession game? I haven't seen it from Richards once this year, or from Gaborik, Stepan and Kreider really ever. Gaborik is a great player, but he's never played in a wide open system like that and he's never been a puck possession guy. Despite that, he's always been a 30+ goal scorer and last year he was even better than that.

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02-20-2013, 03:54 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I think Richards looks like garbage right now. I think he's making careless play after careless play and I think that asking for him to play a more "creative" game is only going to magnify those problems. He hasn't been able to carry the puck in and he hasn't been able to make smart passes. How is relying on him to do those things going to magically improve his ability?

I don't think Gaborik has ever had the skillset to carry the puck in himself and do the type of things that would be required of a 7+ million dollar player in a more open system, not to mention he was third in goals last year in the "so-called system" that the "clown" coach was so stupidly forcing him to play under.

I think Stepan has done just fine under Torts so far.

I think Kreider isn't ready for the NHL no matter what system he's in.

I think Nash is absolutely suited for a more open system along with Hagelin and McD, but I don't think that 3 players are enough to change an entire system for. Who else is going to carry the puck through the zone? Who else is going to possess the puck and make the slick plays required of a more open system?

This idea of "last year is last year" doesn't make sense to me. Last year was a normal 82 game NHL season, this season is a weird mess of a 48 game season with no preseason and short camp and a start that was not even sure to happen at all. Last year the same "system" that is being shat on over and over was in place and a team with the same core pieces put on their best performance in a long, long time. And last year the same complaints were made to start the season. There was a Fire Torts thread. It's the same idiotic cycle all over again only this time instead of learning from the past people are dismissing it, saying "last year was last year."

Let me ask you this: Why do you think that guys like Richards, Gaborik, Stepan and Kreider would be more effective in a different system? That was my original question. When have any of them shown an ability to do the things that are necessary to abandon dump, chase and grind and go into a more puck possession game? I haven't seen it from Richards once this year, or from Gaborik, Stepan and Kreider really ever. Gaborik is a great player, but he's never played in a wide open system like that and he's never been a puck possession guy. Despite that, he's always been a 30+ goal scorer and last year he was even better than that.
I respect your arguments - although I do not agree with them. And appreciate your level of discussion. So we can agree to disagree at this point. Cannot elaborate on it now cuz --- ummm --- the vodka hath taken over. And that level is not meant to be here. Peace Bro!

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02-20-2013, 03:57 PM
  #145
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The one thing I'll say is that after last night's Rangers/Habs game, I flipped on the Sharks/Blues game and those teams looked like they were just flying out there. Unbelievable, night and day.
i've been saying this for a while. its not even just the top teams. average teams just do things so much better than the rangers such as completing passes and transitioning without looking like a train wreck.


the rangers are so sloppy. they've had this problem for years. so many plays are ruined by bad passes that are either in the skates of players or 3 feet ahead of them. and then half the time when they receive the pass it either bounces over the stick or hits the stick and flies off. torts needs to pull a gordon bombay and make them pass with eggs.

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02-20-2013, 03:57 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
This team is going no where and Torts the Clown hooefully fired and we will see th last of him and his re treads ( the old TB guys ) . Good riddens go back to te media and I hope people crap all over you and your analyis and Avery cracks you in your stupid goatee face while your at it .
Ridiculous.

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02-20-2013, 04:12 PM
  #147
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I respect your arguments - although I do not agree with them. And appreciate your level of discussion. So we can agree to disagree at this point. Cannot elaborate on it now cuz --- ummm --- the vodka hath taken over. And that level is not meant to be here. Peace Bro!
Haha, understandable. I'm always happy to go back and forth with someone who is willing to listen with an open mind. This is just the way the team looks to me. I'm open to hearing opposing views so long as there's a logic to them. Enjoy that vodka.

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02-20-2013, 04:16 PM
  #148
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02-20-2013, 04:49 PM
  #149
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What troubles me most with tortorella is his inability to correct flaws with the play of the team. He said as much recently that the team is over thinking and not reacting. I think part of the problem is the way this team thinks on the ice... It's stupid.

I see alot of dumb decisions with the puck, especially in the offensive zone. What does this team work on in practice? Bag skates? They handle the puck like a hand grenade most nights.

When he first arrived I expected a much different product. I realized we didn't have the personnel back then, but now we do and still see the same product. I don't like this system. I can't stand the collapsing in our zone and nonexistent NZ play. Out inability to get out of our end cleanly is baffling! Then there is the Power play....

I don't think he knows how to get the best out of our young players. More and more he is coming off to me as a shallow screamer, who wants to be absolved of responsibility as he rides his top players night after night.

I give him until next season. He has had more than enough time to take this team to the next level

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02-20-2013, 05:00 PM
  #150
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What troubles me most with tortorella is his inability to correct flaws with the play of the team. He said as much recently that the team is over thinking and not reacting. I think part of the problem is the way this team thinks on the ice... It's stupid.

I see alot of dumb decisions with the puck, especially in the offensive zone. What does this team work on in practice? Bag skates? They handle the puck like a hand grenade most nights.

When he first arrived I expected a much different product. I realized we didn't have the personnel back then, but now we do and still see the same product. I don't like this system. I can't stand the collapsing in our zone and nonexistent NZ play. Out inability to get out of our end cleanly is baffling! Then there is the Power play....

I don't think he knows how to get the best out of our young players. More and more he is coming off to me as a shallow screamer, who wants to be absolved of responsibility as he rides his top players night after night.

I give him until next season. He has had more than enough time to take this team to the next level

I will start by saying that before this season I thought that Torts did a good job of getting a lot out of your players and doing the right things to motivate guys to get the most out of them..... However, when this season started I was hoping he would make some adjustments to his system just for the fact that a DYNAMIC top player in the league in Rick Nash had been inserted.

but, this has not happened.... The powerplay is still AWFUL. There is no way with the names on this roster that you can excuse this, yet he hasn't done anything to try and resolve this.

It seems as though this team doesn't practice any kind of passing or transition work in practice. They really struggle trying to make things happen on offense and Richards and Gaborik really haven't looked great a lot of this season.

I don't know how this team can be so inconsistent this year... I don't know if Torts message is being lost among the players, but the whole team just isn't playing smooth at all. I don't want people to say anything about a training camp. Every team had barely any camp and when I watch other games it seems every other team makes it a lot easier to make things happen in the offensive zone.....

This system sucks and Torts is just too stubborn to do anything about it.

I still feel this team is only going to finish as a 7th or 8th seed.

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