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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-20-2013, 01:52 PM
  #451
markrander87
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D Lennart Svedberg

I will be adding to this.

"Big" Svedberg breaking up play after play and being voted all-star defenseman with Jan suchy:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...svedberg&hl=en


Hero of the Swedish Victory:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...svedberg&hl=en

I know it's only one game, but some very cool footage of Svedberg (#4 ) in action:

0:25 Breaking a play up defensively
0:36 He had such great speed it looks like he forechecked at times because he knew he could get back into the play (found this very funny)
0:55 Again making a nice play defensively
2:20 Fantastic end to end rush resulting in a goal
3:00 Breaking a play up and then forechecking again
4:25 A nice pinch



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02-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
According to Joe Pelletier, Svedberg was a converted forward who sometimes struggled in his own zone. Don't get me wrong, if he fell to my next pick - I would have found some way to use him; he already fell too far.
Check out that first article I found showing how he broke up play after play..

Look for his name in yellow (make sure you read the small paragraph beforehand too)

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02-20-2013, 01:57 PM
  #453
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Check out that first article I found showing how he broke up play after play..

Look for his name in yellow (make sure you read the small paragraph beforehand too)
Well he seems to have played well defensively in that one game.

Also seems like Suchy's injury that caused him to miss 2 games is the only reason Svedberg was named best defenseman of the tournament. But no harm in being the 2nd best Euro defenseman after Suchy.

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02-20-2013, 02:00 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Wooo, played chicken with Novy this time and won. I could have drafted him with the pick I traded away, but saw that nobody who picked between my two picks needed a scoring line center, so I gambled that nobody would trade up to snag him.
Nica call, I had him in my radar.....I like what I've read, like his skills.

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02-20-2013, 02:07 PM
  #455
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Well he seems to have played well defensively in that one game.

Also seems like Suchy's injury that caused him to miss 2 games is the only reason Svedberg was named best defenseman of the tournament. But no harm in being the 2nd best Euro defenseman after Suchy.
It's just ironic that JKRX makes that post and then I find that article to back him up.

I mean the "well it could have only been for that one game" could be used in pretty much every article we find on old players.

I'm curious Jkrx, do you say this because you saw him play?

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02-20-2013, 02:09 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
According to Joe Pelletier, Svedberg was a converted forward who sometimes struggled in his own zone. Don't get me wrong, if he fell to my next pick - I would have found some way to use him; he already fell too far.
I like Pelletier but he seems to get a lot of misinformation out there. He rarely struggled in his own zone, infact sweden put alot of faith in their defensive system. He wasn't restrained obviously but they didnt need to either he knew when to take risks and when not to. Rarely got knocked of the puck and while he didnt look like much he had a physique that even impressed an undrafted coach.

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02-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #457
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Novy is a beast.


Last edited by Dreakmur: 02-20-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You didn't have the All-Star Teams or "best forward" selections for Czechoslovakia, as I believe they were only "discovered" by hfboards in the past couple of months. I think they should erase any lingering doubt that Novy might not be better than a certain undrafted.

I think there's at least a case that Novy is as good as any center drafted in the last few rounds, but that's the thing with second line centers in the ATD - there are so many of them that sometimes you can afford to wait. I do think he was the last center available in his class, which is why I decided to stop waiting.
As I said last draft, I think Novy is probably about as valuable as Bernie Federko, although the fact that he's more of a goalscorer than a playmaker makes him more difficult to build around. To be honest, I wonder about the fit between Novy and Kovalchuk, and Alfredsson was a somewhat better goalscorer than playmaker, as well, so the line may be something less than the sum of its parts.

But Novy was the best forward available, IMO, and should definitely go higher. Of all the offensive centers taken since Dunderdale (so, the end of the 8th round), the only one I would definitely take before him is Roenick. The "stickiness" of ATD draft positions is a strange thing.

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02-20-2013, 02:20 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Has that been approved ?
TDMM, vecens, and Stoneberg approved it in the trade thread. Great value for Pitt IMO.

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:32 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
As I said last draft, I think Novy is probably about as valuable as Bernie Federko, although the fact that he's more of a goalscorer than a playmaker makes him more difficult to build around. To be honest, I wonder about the fit between Novy and Kovalchuk, and Alfredsson was a somewhat better goalscorer than playmaker, as well, so the line may be something less than the sum of its parts.

But Novy was the best forward available, IMO, and should definitely go higher. Of all the offensive centers taken since Dunderdale (so, the end of the 8th round), the only one I would definitely take before him is Roenick. The "stickiness" of ATD draft positions is a strange thing.
Novy's goal scoring record is better than his playmaking record, but not by a lot.

Top-10 Scoring (1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th)
Top-10 Goalscoring (1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 7th, 9th)
Top-10 Assist (1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 6th, 9th, 9th)

The fact that he led the domestic league in points more than goals or assists shows a fairly balanced level of offense.

And Alfredsson is one of those rare wings who was a good playmaker himself:

Top 20 finishes
Goals: 9, 9, 9, 12
Assists: 8, 11, 13, 13, 13, 17
Points 4, 7, 9, 15, 17, 19

Alfredsson's top 20 finishes actually show him to be a rare winger who was a better playmaker than goal scorer. Although watching Alfredsson, we have the advantage to know he was really just a versatile offensive player who could play any role asked of him.

I think Novy should fit well with Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is not a traditional triggerman - like Bobby Hull, he often skates the puck end to end, so a classic puck-possession playmaking center wouldn't work well with him. (It's why Fedorov is great with Hull but I don't think Forsberg would work so well). Novy played quite a few tournaments for the national team with Vladimir Martinec, a noted puck possession player, on his wing: here you can see them playing together on the same line when Novy scores the only goal of Czechslovakia's famous win over Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbbl6OTYQdM. So Novy should be able to be effective offensively without being the primary puck carrier of his line.

I think that maybe some of Novy's goal scoring will be wasted on a line that features Kovalchuk, but his playmaking resume is actually pretty damn solid and it's not like Kovalchuk and Alfredsson can't pass themselves. Kovalchuk is something of a puck hog through the neutral zone, but actually a pretty effective playmaker once he gets in the offensive zone. His assist numbers aren't outstanding, but they aren't awful, either.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-20-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 02:33 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
TDMM, vecens, and Stoneberg approved it in the trade thread.
Yeah, I checked after I asked, which is why I edited the post

Quote:
Great value for Pitt IMO.
Agreed. Pitts definately comes out ahead on that one. Obviously wasn't veto worthy, but it looks bad enough to at least needed a discussion and vote.

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Old
02-20-2013, 03:12 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Wasn't he basically a C who played a few playoff games at LW?
I will try to dig up the exact quantities, but funny enough, 70s has a quote in his 2011 bio where the #3 defenseman on my own team, Si Griffis, outlines how his direct, effective in close quarters game suits him to wing. So whether ATD voters accept him on the left or not, his teammates are ok with it!


Which is to say, if you feel like listing him as C/LW on the OP like every other ATD, go ahead, but I think his bulldozer game compliments the more subtle Sakic and Bailey for a two-way line.


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Old
02-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Novy should fit well with Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is not a traditional triggerman - like Bobby Hull, he often skates the puck end to end, so a classic puck-possession playmaking center wouldn't work well with him. (It's why Fedorov is great with Hull but I don't think Forsberg would work so well). Novy played quite a few tournaments for the national team with Vladimir Martinec, a noted puck possession player, on his wing: here you can see them playing together on the same line when Novy scores the only goal of Czechslovakia's famous win over Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbbl6OTYQdM. So Novy should be able to be effective offensively without being the primary puck carrier of his line.
Martinec and Novy rarely played on the same line on the Czech national team. Here are mostly complete WEC-A and Olympic scoring summaries for the years in which Novy and Martinec both skated for the national team:

1974 - Novy not on team
1975
1976 - Olympics...I found them, though the page is really hard to read
1977
1978
1979
1980 - Olympics...again hard to read
1981
1982 - Martinec no longer on national team

You can see pretty clearly from the above by looking at the even strength goals (assists) data that Martinec and Novy only played on a line together in 1977, and then it looks like only for about half of the games in the tournament (though including the first two finals round games). There is more information out there than I have been able to gather and they obviously did play together at least in the game against Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup, but Martinec and Novy were not regular linemates on the national team to the best of my knowledge. The majority of the time, both men were used as the "drivers" of their individual lines.

edit: I found the Olympic box scores (damn, I'm good), though they are a terrible pain to read. Looks like Novy and Martinec may have played together for a single game in 1976, though as the summaries do not differentiate powerplay from even strength goals, it's just as likely that they hooked up on the powerplay in that game.


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Old
02-20-2013, 03:51 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Martinec and Novy rarely played on the same line on the Czech national team. Here are complete WEC-A scoring summaries for most of the years in which Novy and Martinec both skated for the national team:

1974 - Novy not on team
1975
1976 - sadly missing
1977
1978
1979
1980 - ???
1981
1982 - Martinec no longer on national team

Sadly, I don't have box scores for the Olympic years (maybe someone can find them), but you can see pretty clearly from the above by looking at the even strength goals (assists) data that Martinec and Novy only played on a line together in 1977, and then it looks like only for about half of the games in the tournament (though including the first two finals round games). There is more information out there than I have been able to gather and they obviously did play together at least in the game against Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup, but Martinec and Novy were not regular linemates on the national team to the best of my knowledge. The majority of the time, both men were used as the "drivers" of their individual lines.
Seems they played mostly together in '76 ahvent been able to watch or research the other years...

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02-20-2013, 04:14 PM
  #465
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Seems they played mostly together in '76 ahvent been able to watch or research the other years...
In Katowice at the IIHF championships, you mean? I found the Olympic records, and they didn't play together in Innsbruck. If they did play together in Katowice, that would be interesting, given that the Czechs won that tournament.

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02-20-2013, 04:16 PM
  #466
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In Katowice at the IIHF championships, you mean? I found the Olympic records, and they didn't play together in Innsbruck.
Yes, exactly... I didnt even think to check the olympics.

in '77 it seems they played together too..

Ebermann - Novy - Martinec


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02-20-2013, 04:26 PM
  #467
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Svedberg is probably a better player in a vacuum than Davydov, but with Park and Niedermayer anchoring my top 2 pairings, I needed Davydov's physicality and defensive prowess more than Svedberg's ability to move the puck.

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02-20-2013, 04:29 PM
  #468
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In Katowice at the IIHF championships, you mean? I found the Olympic records, and they didn't play together in Innsbruck. If they did play together in Katowice, that would be interesting, given that the Czechs won that tournament.
I think the 1976 WCs are where I saw Martinec and Novy playing together before too. I assumed it was more regular than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Yes, exactly... I didnt even think to check the olympics.

in '77 it seems they played together too..

Ebermann - Novy - Martinec
It would appear from what you two have posted that Martinec and Novy might have only been regular linemates for tournaments that happened in 1976 and 1977, but that was basically the height of Czechoslovakian hockey.

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02-20-2013, 04:31 PM
  #469
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I think the 1976 WCs are where I saw Martinec and Novy playing together before too. I assumed it was more regular than that.



It would appear from what you two have posted that Martinec and Novy might have only been regular linemates for tournaments that happened in 1976 and 1977, but that was basically the height of Czechoslovakian hockey.
Its weird that they didnt play together in the olympics and because of undrafted rule I cant really optimize my research in public

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02-20-2013, 04:35 PM
  #470
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Yes, exactly... I didnt even think to check the olympics.

in '77 it seems they played together too..

xxxxxxx - Novy - Martinec
While I realize that the LW on this line is unlikely to be drafted, we should be careful here. At any rate, if you look at all of the box scores from 1977, Novy and Martinec evidently played together in some of the games, and in others not. It appears that the Czech coach may have used a "super line" with both of his biggest offensive stars on it as a change of pace, but they were never regular linemates as far as I know. Martinec appears to have most often skated with his old linemates from Pardubice, which was typical of European hockey at the time, where successful club team lines were often kept together at the national team level (the Soviets did this, as well). A nod to chemistry, I suppose, and not unwise, if you think about it.

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02-20-2013, 04:36 PM
  #471
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Its weird that they didnt play together in the olympics and because of undrafted rule I cant really optimize my research in public
Save it to your computer and post it in dishing the dirt when all the relevant players are drafted. I'm still waiting on a couple of players to be drafted before dumping a bunch of information there on other guys.

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02-20-2013, 04:39 PM
  #472
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From what I have gathered, Martinec benefited from a more defensive centre.

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02-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #473
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Save it to your computer and post it in dishing the dirt when all the relevant players are drafted. I'm still waiting on a couple of players to be drafted before dumping a bunch of information there on other guys.
Sent a message about it to sturm since he is an observer anyways and see if we've came up with the same results or if he can confirm them but im 99% my research is correct when it comes to atleast 77.

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02-20-2013, 06:02 PM
  #474
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When it's convenient for you, can someone on the trade committee, please go to the trade thread there> http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...326359&page=32

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02-20-2013, 07:22 PM
  #475
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Philadelphia selects LW Kevin Stevens



1x 1st Team All Star
2x 2nd Team All Star

For 418 games of Stevens' career, he played at 1.21PPG hockey, scoring 502 points. For the other 456 games, he played at .49PPG hockey, scoring 224 points(which mostly occurred in a lower scoring era). What to expect from him here is somewhere in the middle, but that combination of offense, a great physical game, great size, and a good skater for a big man is too much to pass up here. He'll give Joe Thornton a player similar to the guy he has succeeded with in San Jose; a big man that can skate and shoot. He and Grant Fuhr should make for quite a party.

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