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Markov...coincidence

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Old
02-20-2013, 04:32 PM
  #26
Des Louise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Yup the PP has improved when they aren't constantly going for the point shot.
Some thoughts..

#1- In the past, in Markov's prime.. the PP was always good when Markov was paired with someone who could shoot.

#2- At the beginning of the season, Markov was the one shooting from the point and scoring goals left and right. This was never gonna last. Markov doesn't have a booming shot. He has hockey sense, and accuracy. Once other teams adjusted, Markov did not have the same room to shoot and the PP struggled.

#3- Diaz can't shoot

#4- Subban can shoot

#5- The Subban-Markov PP pairing did not work because Markov has been sucking ass lately. They recently put Diaz back on the PP and Markov seemed to want to play again.... maybe something about PK's game was bothering him... but they still aren't scoring on the PP... so no matter how much you wish it were so, the PP wasn't struggling because of Subban.

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02-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #27
OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Some thoughts..

#1- In the past, in Markov's prime.. the PP was always good when Markov was paired with someone who could shoot.

#2- At the beginning of the season, Markov was the one shooting from the point and scoring goals left and right. This was never gonna last. Markov doesn't have a booming shot. He has hockey sense, and accuracy. Once other teams adjusted, Markov did not have the same room to shoot and the PP struggled.

#3- Diaz can't shoot

#4- Subban can shoot

#5- The Subban-Markov PP pairing did not work because Markov has been sucking ass lately. They recently put Diaz back on the PP and Markov seemed to want to play again.... maybe something about PK's game was bothering him... but they still aren't scoring on the PP... so no matter how much you wish it were so, the PP wasn't struggling because of Subban.
1 - Ya someone who could shoot and didn't have to be the total focus of the PP.
2 - It didn't struggle until PK was shoehorned in.
3 - He isn't supposed to shoot.
4 - Ya he can shoot, hitting the net is a different story.
5 - It didn't work because the entire focus was Subbans overhyped shot and he would constantly carry the puck and take a weak chance that would get turned over. It has been obvious these last couple games that the PP is much more dangerous and creates more chances when the only option isn't PK no matter how much you wish it wasn't so.

Cue the tears.

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Old
02-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #28
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I think its obvious Markov has lost one step and doesnt have the same stamina as before, nothing to do with Subban IMO, maybe its time to lower his ice time a bit.. Also, maybe its time for Therrien to send a real first PP unit instead of rolling the same even strength lines on the PP.. A guy like Cole should clearly not be on the first PP wave right now, same with Gionta who lacks creativity.. Time to send Plekanec flanked by Galchenyuk and Paccioretty on the first PP wave..


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Old
02-20-2013, 05:21 PM
  #29
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I tought at first this tread was about the success of the Habs with having a healthy Markov!

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02-20-2013, 06:05 PM
  #30
Des Louise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
1 - Ya someone who could shoot and didn't have to be the total focus of the PP.
I don't know if you remember but Souray was pretty much the entire focus of the PP.

Besides, what is this idea you created in your head that PK is the total focus of the PP ? I don't understand.

Quote:
2 - It didn't struggle until PK was shoehorned in.
Correlation does not imply causation.

Quote:
3 - He isn't supposed to shoot.
As I said before, the PP has always worked well with Markov when he had a shooter beside him.

Quote:
4 - Ya he can shoot, hitting the net is a different story.
Overblown.

Quote:
5 - It didn't work because the entire focus was Subbans overhyped shot and he would constantly carry the puck and take a weak chance that would get turned over. It has been obvious these last couple games that the PP is much more dangerous and creates more chances when the only option isn't PK no matter how much you wish it wasn't so.
The last couple of games have yielded how many PP goals ?


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Cue the tears.



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Old
02-20-2013, 07:11 PM
  #31
OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't know if you remember but Souray was pretty much the entire focus of the PP.

Besides, what is this idea you created in your head that PK is the total focus of the PP ? I don't understand.



Correlation does not imply causation.



As I said before, the PP has always worked well with Markov when he had a shooter beside him.



Overblown.



The last couple of games have yielded how many PP goals ?






1 - Souray was the entire focus and he had an incredible shot that is still good today, Subban doesn't have that shot unfortunately. For the second part you have to watch the games, it's a tricky thing I know.

2 - The rest is nonsense, i'm not gonna bother.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:06 PM
  #32
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I was thinking the same BUT I do recall PK`s first game back (super bowl wkd) , Markov took a VERY bad slash to his hand and went off the ice right away....i think maybe he broke something and can`t shoot the puck like he had been.....Anyone remember that slash ? PK has nothing to do with Markovs lack of production lately.............AND Markov was always streaky as I recall.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:42 PM
  #33
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The reason the Markov / Subban PP pairing isn't working is because they both like to keep the puck.

With Diaz / Markhov, Diaz let Marhov have the puck and got out of the way. Made quick passes and didn't try to make too many moves at the point.

They need to bring back Diaz / Markhov as the #1 PP, so Markhov can be the "General" on the PP he was early in the season.

I'm not saying Diaz is better than Markhov, the unit just had more chemistry and were in sync than Markhov/Subban.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:55 PM
  #34
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He still runs that PP. His totals will go as the PP goes. Currently, its on a dry spell. Subban's presence affects Diaz more than Markov

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02-20-2013, 10:53 PM
  #35
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One thing to note: After a number of games you have to expect other teams to get the news that Markov is producing heavily on the PP, and therefor adjust what they are doing in function of stopping him.

There might have been a new focus after the PP failed for a few games to find new breaches with PK and that is less successful atm. It doesn't mean going back to the same system as in the first few games will work. It's a cat & mouse game between teams really.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Lots of players of all kinds of abilities and styles get off to a red-hot start, and then their stats normalize as the season wears on. I think Markov falls in that category - how many slapshots did people realistically him to score on this year?

The sample size is so small that it's easy to say Markov could just as well have been putting up those numbers at the start of the season with Subban in the lineup.
I do feel the puck doesnt move as fast on the powerplay as it did early in the season, and honestly it does not have to do with how the teams play us... subban likes to control the pace of the game and thats fine, but he made our PP more predictable imho. its a lot easier for goalies to track the puck now compared to how we were playing on the PP early on with one touch passes without actually stopping the puck and letting the box adjust. my 2 cents. we are one or two minor tweaks away from getting goals on the pp.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 02-20-2013 at 11:17 PM.
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Old
02-21-2013, 02:54 PM
  #37
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For whom sees no correlation between Markov's halt in points production and the return of PK. It's good you do not run a business with people or coach a team.

If you do ... hopefully their will be no PK around.

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02-21-2013, 03:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Meh...why not, we blame Subban for everything else lol
I had to laugh. Is this where this is going...
What a strange conclusion.

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02-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #39
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Markov has always been streaky and always will be. He also does not have good stamina and they better control his ice time because he will be burnt come playoff time..he's definitely not one of those horses that can play over 25 min every game and be effective. Throughout his whole career he always came out running out of the gate and then struggled the more the season went on...he never had a good playoff.

As for the power play, you need a shooter. Diaz-Markov will never work in the long run, both can't and don't wanna shoot. I don't care who you put but Markov has to have someone that can rip it. They have to make it work with Subban now so come playoff time they are ready. He is the only option because he has the best shot out of all our defence.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #40
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It's probably because he doesn't play 30minutes a game anymore. Also it seems like the powerplay hass less in mouvement since about 5 games and if you look at Markov's goals on the PP they were often involving a lot some sort of puck cycling, which hasn't been happening lately.

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02-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post
For whom sees no correlation between Markov's halt in points production and the return of PK. It's good you do not run a business with people or coach a team.

If you do ... hopefully their will be no PK around.
Please tell us more! Your perspective is revolutionary.

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02-21-2013, 06:23 PM
  #42
vokiel
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Coach just said they're trying too many complicated things on the PP. That's it, don't look any further.

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02-21-2013, 07:00 PM
  #43
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Well, the nice thing is that for once we don't seem to need the PP to score.

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02-22-2013, 12:38 AM
  #44
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Ever heard of a hot/cold streak? He's one touch away on a number of goals from more points.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:50 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
It's probably because he doesn't play 30minutes a game anymore. Also it seems like the powerplay hass less in mouvement since about 5 games and if you look at Markov's goals on the PP they were often involving a lot some sort of puck cycling, which hasn't been happening lately.
don't think so, he's missing basic stuff even defensively.

as for the PP, it's true they arent cycling the puck as much but t has to be expected as PK has to adjust to the way Markov is doing things (and we can see he's trying).

wether it's PP, PK or 5 on 5, Markos is clearly not the same, I think he's either injured or need to be rested a little (playing less minutes)

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Old
02-22-2013, 08:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It was fairly predictable. He has barely played in 3 years so he likely was playing a lot on the adreneline of being back.
I disagree with this.

A player who has barely played in 3 years is much more likely to have rust than to be running on adrenaline. I think he's just tired and having less lucky bounces. Not to mention the PP isn't doing as well.

I do think that Subban threw off the PP chemistry though, as soon as he came back Therrien took Diaz off of the first PP wave (with Markov) and put Subban in his place and I don't think that was the right choice. He's changed it back since then but it seems they haven't recovered. Our PP needs consistency to be good, I think.

Markov - Diaz
Subban - Emelin/Bouillon/Gorges

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Old
02-22-2013, 08:27 AM
  #47
otto bond
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I think it's not so much him or the D partner but rather the forward. Also give credit to other team who have block the crossing lane. A heavy LHD shot would open him more for cross ice passes.

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02-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #48
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The issue with Markov and PK together is Markov as always been more comfortable on left side of PP and that's exactly where Subban likes to take his shot. He's said before his favorite shot is low blocker and it's where he's scored most of his goals. They just aren't all that compatible together on PP until one of them adjusts.

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02-22-2013, 10:01 PM
  #49
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I just realized that Markov is the only D who still has not an Even Strength point.
Must admit that it's quite disappointing.

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02-22-2013, 10:03 PM
  #50
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I think it's a matter of scouting and better tactics against our PP as the season wears on. I've noticed in the past ~5 games or so that teams are playing very high pressure on the attackers in the offensive zone and are forechecking harder when we're trying to break out. Not something I noticed much at all in the first 5-10 games.

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