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Old
02-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #101
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I think he's overpaid in the sense that I question whether or not he's a 25-30 goal scorer anymore and a 55-60 point producer. I think at this point in his career Gionta is a 15-20 goal scorer 35-45 point producer..which I don't think it worth 5 million. However, he does have excellent subtleties to his game which are soo important to the team's success. I don't mind the overpayment, it doesn't bother me that much, especially when I am happy with Gionta's game.

Gionta's game imo is hard to replace. I think he's extremely underrated as a defensive forward, even though people do praise that part of his game. His work on the backcheck and his work in his own zone are quite a sight to see. He plays such a key role with Plekanec in shutting down opposing players, it's impressive.

Trading Gionta to get rid of the overpayment is okay, but I still think you'll have a tough time finding the defensive side combined with his work ethic of his game in any other top 6 foward at a reasonable price (trade wise, not cap wise).

The Rangers broadcaster's even said yesterday that when they asked Therrien about the defensive game, he singled out Gionta and praised his importance to that aspect of the Habs' system.

I am more than comfortable with his game and the overpayment doesn't bother me, especially if we keep winning the way we have.
winning does cure everything...

but i hope management keeps their eyes focused on building long term success, without getting to caught up in the temporary high of a small sample of success.

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02-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #102
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I don't know. I like him. I'm aware his point production isn't a good as some others on the team. But his veteran experience, his work ethic and while no producing much points is still god enough offensively and defensively, are all good assets. Could we have better? Maybe. But I believe the team likes him and that he's good in the locker room.Yes, his size doesn't really work for him. At least he's got good speed. He seems on par with previous seasons as for point production. And maybe he's distracted and tired because of his new born kid. Let's not forget that he also is a clutch player during the playoffs. You know, when it matters?

Do I think we'll trade him? Not a chance. Not only does Gionta have a NTC, I don't think we trade our captain either, it would look just bad. It would look just as bad if Gionta waived his NTC to get out of here, unless it was for personal reasons. Do I think we'll re-sign him at the end of his contract? Probably not, or maybe for less than his current salary, unless his performances change until then. What ever it is, I'm glad he's a Hab.

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02-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
winning does cure everything...

but i hope management keeps their eyes focused on building long term success, without getting to caught up in the temporary high of a small sample of success.
Gionta, as well as Cole can be kept for the rest of the season. They actually might be more productive in the next 2/3 of it, and valuable contributors in the playoffs.

Eventually, they gonna have to make space for some younger guys. Hopefully, Kristo will show up as a pro, and Leblanc will recover from his mental and physical injuries.

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02-20-2013, 02:52 PM
  #104
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I think its fair to say that some younger players might deserve shots on the top 2 lines, possibly at the expense of Gionta, but he's hardly playing like garbage right now.

I think he'll be a steady presence for the rest of his contract, and expect him to have more of an impact when we are in the playoffs.

And for those that are saying his entire tenure with the Habs has been awful, that's borderline disrespectful. Do people really not remember his play in the 2010 playoff run?






That was a great spring...

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02-20-2013, 02:54 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
We don't really know how much of a leader and good Captain he is.

But what we know for sure is that he is still making way too much money for the type of output he's providing. He's not in Selanne or Koivu class. With a lower cap ceiling next season, he's gonna be even harder to trade. Unless he decides to retire, we are stucked with him for another two seasons.
It is two years from now, that I see us needing cap space. This is when
Gionta, and Kaberle come off the books anyway.
Next season he would be a rental, and so easier to trade. The team that
gets him will dodge most of his cap-space.
And saying you don't know, and then insinuating that he isn't, is a little
unfair. He does actually contribute on the ice. It's just the element that is
easiest to see, (points) is lagging this year.

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02-20-2013, 02:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
It is two years from now, that I see us needing cap space. This is when
Gionta, and Kaberle come off the books anyway.
Next season he would be a rental, and so easier to trade. The team that
gets him will dodge most of his cap-space.
And saying you don't know, and then insinuating that he isn't, is a little
unfair. He does actually contribute on the ice. It's just the element that is
easiest to see, (points) is lagging this year.
I am not. I don't know, and no one is talking about it. Not the media nor his own teamates. Must be fine, then.

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02-20-2013, 03:42 PM
  #107
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Gionta's game has always been mostly about smarts, speed, and hard-work. Three things he still possess. Gionta isn't a young player, he did not play in a league during the lockout, and he is adjusting to playing with Plekanec and Bourque. I'll give him more time.

Also, Gionta is a very good captain from all accounts. Dealing Gionta, the captain of the team, any time soon could/would be disastrous. Let's be patient with both him and Cole, they are hard-working veterans, they will get better.

We are winning, let's be patient.

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02-20-2013, 03:46 PM
  #108
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Gionta gets tough match ups and handles them well. Who do you replace Gionta with on Plekanec's wing, anyway?

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02-20-2013, 03:48 PM
  #109
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Man this is sad. Pacioretty and Cole get the benefit of the doubt, but Gionta (I'm not aven ging to bother mentioning his accolades with the Habs specifically) is garbage and a "charlatan". I think it's just pointless to even make a case for him (and there is a big one) with all the pitchforks out.

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02-20-2013, 04:01 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Man this is sad. Pacioretty and Cole get the benefit of the doubt, but Gionta (I'm not aven ging to bother mentioning his accolades with the Habs specifically) is garbage and a "charlatan". I think it's just pointless to even make a case for him (and there is a big one) with all the pitchforks out.
Patches has started scoring and is at close to a PPG this year. He's our 2nd highest scoring forward despite his appendectomy and cut to the ribs. I'm pretty sure that's why he gets a pass (although fans have called him out too).

Read the "Has Erik Cole already retired?" thread. He is by no means getting a pass.

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02-20-2013, 04:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Gionta gets tough match ups and handles them well. Who do you replace Gionta with on Plekanec's wing, anyway?
I would go with Eller.

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02-20-2013, 04:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Man this is sad. Pacioretty and Cole get the benefit of the doubt, but Gionta (I'm not aven ging to bother mentioning his accolades with the Habs specifically) is garbage and a "charlatan". I think it's just pointless to even make a case for him (and there is a big one) with all the pitchforks out.
Gionta isn't called a garbage or Charlatan by everybody. There are valid arguments to trade him as there are valid ones not to. Sure I read garbage in this thread, but I also read some valid dicussions. Your post brings nothing more than the ones you're pointing.

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02-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I would go with Eller.
Eller might do fine on the wing in a shut-down role. I think he'd be fine, even. But then, what happens if there's an injury? Move up Moen? That pretty much decimates a line offensively.

What happens if Prust has a series of bad games and it becomes clear he needs a limited role on the 4th line for awhile? Eller's perfect to fill in. Or, if Galchenyuk hits a wall.

Point is: Montreal's unlikely to have a healthy top-9 for the entire season. Eller figures into the top-9 and can play anywhere there as it stands, and he'll likely fill in holes created by injury or slump for the entire season. If you move Gionta, who's performing well in a shut-down, moving-the-puck-up-ice capacity, then the team is stretched thin. One injury will change the way the team plays; one slump leaves the coach with no option but to continue with the set top-9.

The team has 10 forwards capable of playing top-9 minutes right now. Two are rookies. One is a player that's generally played fourth minutes in his career. A number of the players are injury prone and/or prone to slumps. There's no need to create room for Eller, nor is there a need to remove a consistent vet who can play tough minutes from a team that needs to shelter a significant portion of its top-9 (Desharnais, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher all have benefited significantly from sheltered minutes).

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02-20-2013, 04:54 PM
  #114
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Okay so let's just believe that Gionta has a fantastic defensive game (which isn't true, keeps losing tons of battles along the board but anyway...let's pretend...), he shouldn't be a top 6 of a top team in the conference. If so, it does mean that we are not a top team and we're about to know it. Put him on a 3rd instead...or even a 4th as I keep saying. Geez, start making him a PK specialist if you want. But doesn't deserve ANY time on the PP. And not top 6 minutes whatsoever. And let him impress us with his GREAT defensive game. But until he plays like that, he's hurting us and will be for the future. Still 1 more year after that.

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02-20-2013, 05:00 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Man this is sad. Pacioretty and Cole get the benefit of the doubt, but Gionta (I'm not aven ging to bother mentioning his accolades with the Habs specifically) is garbage and a "charlatan". I think it's just pointless to even make a case for him (and there is a big one) with all the pitchforks out.
He's playing more like a 1m dollar Armstrong than a 5m scoring winger with a NTC and a big C emblazoned on his chest.

Yes, he's playing like a charlatan. At least Cole can skate fast, draw penalties and ********* crash the net what does Gionta bring to the table tomorrow other than holding back Pleks-Bourque?

I've watched every game this season - he's been downright awful.

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02-20-2013, 05:03 PM
  #116
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While Gio isnt the most skilled out there, he still show up every games, his work ethic is impeccable, respects the system, is a great team player appeciated in the locker room, he brings leadership and a good vet presence, so why would we trade him when depth is certainly one of our biggest strength and the reason why the team goes so well?? There is no logic reason to trade him when everything seems suddenly possible.. Gio is a little warrior who can score clutch goals, who is pretty responsible defensively and totally commited to the good of this team.


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02-20-2013, 05:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
He's playing more like a 1m dollar Armstrong than a 5m scoring winger with a NTC and a big C emblazoned on his chest.

Yes, he's playing like a charlatan. At least Cole can skate fast, draw penalties and ********* crash the net what does Gionta bring to the table tomorrow other than holding back Pleks-Bourque?

I've watched every game this season - he's been downright awful.
Cole isnt doing any of those things right now, guess he's a charlatan too then

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02-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #118
Mike8
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Okay so let's just believe that Gionta has a fantastic defensive game (which isn't true, keeps losing tons of battles along the board but anyway...let's pretend...), he shouldn't be a top 6 of a top team in the conference. If so, it does mean that we are not a top team and we're about to know it. Put him on a 3rd instead...or even a 4th as I keep saying. Geez, start making him a PK specialist if you want. But doesn't deserve ANY time on the PP. And not top 6 minutes whatsoever. And let him impress us with his GREAT defensive game. But until he plays like that, he's hurting us and will be for the future. Still 1 more year after that.
This 'top 6' thing isn't all that relevant in this discussion. There are three lines that matter, so top 9. Galchenyuk's line, Plekanec's line, and Desharnais's line. Two of those three lines need to play sheltered minutes. One of those lines takes on the burden of shutting down the opposition. The fourth line shares a little bit of that burden.

Gionta fills a role on the team that only one other 'available' player (Eller) can fill, given the current make up of the team. If you want to argue that Eller should be playing in Gionta's role, while Gionta's playing the fourth line, okay. But that doesn't really work either, since in a healthy lineup, Eller plays C on the 4th line.

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02-20-2013, 05:18 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Cole isnt doing any of those things right now, guess he's a charlatan too then
Not to mention Gionta's had a better ratio of taking to drawing penalties this season.

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02-20-2013, 05:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Okay so let's just believe that Gionta has a fantastic defensive game (which isn't true, keeps losing tons of battles along the board but anyway...let's pretend...), he shouldn't be a top 6 of a top team in the conference. If so, it does mean that we are not a top team and we're about to know it. Put him on a 3rd instead...or even a 4th as I keep saying. Geez, start making him a PK specialist if you want. But doesn't deserve ANY time on the PP. And not top 6 minutes whatsoever. And let him impress us with his GREAT defensive game. But until he plays like that, he's hurting us and will be for the future. Still 1 more year after that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
He's playing more like a 1m dollar Armstrong than a 5m scoring winger with a NTC and a big C emblazoned on his chest.

Yes, he's playing like a charlatan. At least Cole can skate fast, draw penalties and ********* crash the net what does Gionta bring to the table tomorrow other than holding back Pleks-Bourque?

I've watched every game this season - he's been downright awful.
Gionta brings a sound two ways play, no one can replace him on first and face the same quality of competition (maybe Eller but that’s it) and he scored the same amount of goals than Pacioretty and Eller... combined.

The last part (same amount of goals than Max and Lars) somewhat is a moot point because, among other things, the sample is small but so are both of your posts. Just for the record: are you both saying that this team would be better without Gionta? Who should take his place?

I like Plekanec's line: all vets and all business. I also like the fact that Plekanec is finally playing with regular wingers. And I really think Gionta, just like Hamrlik before, has become our most underrated player.

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02-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #121
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I think he'd be more effective offensively away from Pleks who faces all the tough assignments. Gio's not up for that at this stage of his career. He's not as bad of a performer as some people on here seem to think. Unfortunately, he's being asked to play top line minutes and he's not a top line performer.

For me he's the new Brisebois. Breezer was asked to be our #1 guy when really he should've been a #3. Gio's being asked to be our #1 RW when really he should be on the 3rd line providing depth offense and contributing to the PK.

I don't see the Habs buying him out, and no way do the Habs ask him for a trade option in-season. I can see MB sitting down with him after the season and saying something about how the Canadiens would like to move forward with their young players etc etc. Then trying to move him at the draft if Gio cooperates and names some places he'd like to go.

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02-20-2013, 06:38 PM
  #122
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
This 'top 6' thing isn't all that relevant in this discussion. There are three lines that matter, so top 9. Galchenyuk's line, Plekanec's line, and Desharnais's line. Two of those three lines need to play sheltered minutes. One of those lines takes on the burden of shutting down the opposition. The fourth line shares a little bit of that burden.

Gionta fills a role on the team that only one other 'available' player (Eller) can fill, given the current make up of the team. If you want to argue that Eller should be playing in Gionta's role, while Gionta's playing the fourth line, okay. But that doesn't really work either, since in a healthy lineup, Eller plays C on the 4th line.
Well maybe the healthy lineup, and somewhat to my surprise, could and should see a Ryan White centering the 4th based on what could be his faceoffs strengths, at least when you compare them to the rest of the C's. So frankly, if we want to see Eller evolves, he won't do it centering the 4th. So the day that he has enough confidence to also shine as a winger, something we didn't think possible, I most definately see Eller at Gionta's spot. Which in the end means a lineup of:

Eller-Pleks-Bourque
Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Pacioretty (interchange whoever on those lines, whether it's Eller, Gallagher or Pacioretty)
Prust-DD-Cole

My point being....I don't see a Gionta on a 4th line. But I would believe that to be a better team and to see our kids improve, that's where he should be playing. And like I mention...you could even give him tons of PK time if you want. Just no PP time. And reduce his minutes ES.

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02-20-2013, 06:38 PM
  #123
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
He's playing more like a 1m dollar Armstrong than a 5m scoring winger with a NTC and a big C emblazoned on his chest.

Yes, he's playing like a charlatan. At least Cole can skate fast, draw penalties and ********* crash the net what does Gionta bring to the table tomorrow other than holding back Pleks-Bourque?

I've watched every game this season - he's been downright awful.
Since joining the Habs he's had totals of 174 G 65-42-107, average of 31-20-51 so over 48 games that's 30 points. Currently he is on pace for 24 points so I expect his pace to pick up, mostly goals.

More important than goals is he brings a great attitude, professionalism and work ethic, plus he is fearless and is committed defensively. Some people on here seriously have no clue on hockey.

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02-20-2013, 06:49 PM
  #124
Whitesnake
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More important than goals is he brings a great attitude, professionalism and work ethic, plus he is fearless and is committed defensively. Some people on here seriously have no clue on hockey.
Love you too. Yet, a great attitude, professionnalism, work ethic, fearless and committed defensively is usually traits we love to mention about bottom 6 players. Top 6 players should also have great scorers and great point getters at least on a great team. If that's what we are right now, Gionta needs to bring those traits aside from his "great qualities as a person" type of traits.

And absolutely not sure whatsoever what his past stats have anything to do with where he is at RIGHT NOW. There is a reason why Lamoriello, who considered Gionta has almost his son, told him to leave NJ and run to take Montreal offer....it because it made no sense whatsoever. Yet, he had a GREAT first season for us.With the numbers that look like slowly but surely going down. He,s clearly not tradeable material based on his salary. And I wouldn't put him on the stands either. But I just hope we could work with him by reducing his minutes. If that means I don't know hockey well then....fine. His contract his due just in 2 small years. We'll see if teams take into consideration his past years when it will be time to re-sign. Do you make him an offer? Do you still want him top 9 in 2 years?

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02-20-2013, 07:05 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Don't understand the hate for Gionta. He's not scoring, but he is part of the reason why the team is having success. His defensive game is exceptional. Combined with Plekanec he's the reason why we are doing so well at shutting down opponents. Sure he's way overpaid for a defensive specialist, but he is still an integral part of the team defensive game. There would be a huge hole with him gone right now without an adequate replacement.

I expect to get attacked, but I stand by what I said. I have no problem with Gionta's game right now.
He's a popular pro veteran presence.

Around here there has to be scapegoats... pretty much almost always.

Even on a win streak.

If its not Breezer... its AKost
If not AKost... then Darche
If not Darche... then Cammy
If not Cammy... then DD
If not DD... then Gio


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