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Anaheim Signs Viktor Fasth to 2 year extension [$2.9 million AAV]

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Old
02-20-2013, 04:51 PM
  #101
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Originally Posted by TMLKesselftw View Post
Pretty sure this started with somebody saying something like "wow, after only 8 games? That's kinda risky" which is true... they never said it was bad, just kinda risky. I'm pretty sure most people believe the possible benefit outweighs the risk, but it still is risky.
how is it risky, 5.8 is not alot of money over 2 years.

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Old
02-20-2013, 04:51 PM
  #102
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You didn't get by just fine with dead dollars in the system: you got the god awful year you had last year.

I have no problem with thinking it is a good move; however, I have a problem when anyone says that $3MM in dead cap space is not that big of a deal on a team with an internal cap.

I understand the reasoning and Lord knows Lombardi has done similar contracts (Matt Greene's extension comes to mind) but, if I were a Ducks fan, I'd be a bit weary of this deal on top of hating myself
Blake wasn't just on the team last year.

Oh and by the way there have been plenty of debates where I said the player opposing the Ducks player were better. I don't get how I'm homer supreme. I can understand how sometimes I can be annoying but I just try to point out the players we have that are doing well and go unnoticed. But if there's a player that is better than a Duck in question I acknowledge it. I'm not the kind of homer who thinks his team is perfect in every way.

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02-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
how is it risky, 5.8 is not alot of money over 2 years.
Yeah, I don't agree with that. The Ducks certainly aren't comfortable wasting $3M per year. I am not comfortable downplaying the amount, I am way more comfortable arguing that the risk isn't as high as the mere number of eight games might suggest to most.

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02-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #104
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great signing

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02-20-2013, 05:45 PM
  #105
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Nevermind!

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02-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #106
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Surprised the ducks didn't wait another 15 or 20 games. I can't imagine the price going up.

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02-20-2013, 06:11 PM
  #107
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Surprised the ducks didn't wait another 15 or 20 games. I can't imagine the price going up.
Depending how those 15 or 20 games went, it very well could.

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02-20-2013, 06:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
how is it risky, 5.8 is not alot of money over 2 years.
Really.... Everyone thinks that that's not a lot of one right now because no one thinks he's going to come back down to Earth. How many people were pissed at Blake and his salary was ONLY 3m.Or how long were people screaming at cogliano and his bad contract when his aav is so much less than 2.9.
But now somehow we have 2.9 to just throw around because it's not a lot of money?
That's ridiculous.
What makes it more risky IS the fact that he has games of nhl experience. Goaltenders have played an amazing season only to completely suck for a couple years. Steve Mason, Brian Elliot last year to this year. How awesome were Elliot numbers last season and how is he doing this season. For Elliot fantastic season he only got a 1.8m extension.
Furthermore if fast does suck then that's 2. 9 sitting on the bench. At least players are on the ice and are much easier to trade. Goalies are hard to trade and get good value for. That's another risk.

Once again, I'll reiterate by saying I don't think this is a bad signing but there's a sizable amount of risk involved. Murray is definitely gambling a little bit with this signing. Whether it pays off has yet to be seen.

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02-20-2013, 06:27 PM
  #109
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I'd like to think this wasn't a hasty move. Management saw something special in Fasth, and didn't want to risk him being a free agent in the offseason.

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This is going to make Kings/Ducks telecasts unbearable
Only if you're watching the Kings' feed!

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Old
02-20-2013, 06:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
What makes it more risky IS the fact that he has games of nhl experience. Goaltenders have played an amazing season only to completely suck for a couple years. Steve Mason, Brian Elliot last year to this year. How awesome were Elliot numbers last season and how is he doing this season. For Elliot fantastic season he only got a 1.8m extension.
That's precisely the point, though. If people aren't able to evaluate goaltenders' play, there's no point to them discussing the deals they get. Eliott had great numbers, but he didn't have a "fantastic season" (by other standards than himself) and wasn't a great goalie. I didn't like the deal for them back then. Goaltenders don't just transform overnight. Elliott had a considerable body of work at the NHL level, that didn't just disappear when he looked good in St. Louis. Fasth has a considerable body of work in his pro career, even though it's not as transparent to most NHL fans. That's just the difference. These guys are getting deals for their quality, not for their numbers or their NHL resumee. That's fantasy / armchair scouting and not how real life works.

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02-20-2013, 07:18 PM
  #111
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Good on him getting a payboost after just having a kid

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02-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
That's precisely the point, though. If people aren't able to evaluate goaltenders' play, there's no point to them discussing the deals they get. Eliott had great numbers, but he didn't have a "fantastic season" (by other standards than himself) and wasn't a great goalie. I didn't like the deal for them back then. Goaltenders don't just transform overnight. Elliott had a considerable body of work at the NHL level, that didn't just disappear when he looked good in St. Louis. Fasth has a considerable body of work in his pro career, even though it's not as transparent to most NHL fans. That's just the difference. These guys are getting deals for their quality, not for their numbers or their NHL resumee. That's fantasy / armchair scouting and not how real life works.
if we were able to judge goaltenders solely by their play in different leagues, then when fasth came over he would've already signed a massive deal with a club. the fact of the matter is, these guys don't KNOW how players are going to adjust when they come here, that's why they start them off on a cheap deal. it's not saying that they aren't quality, its just a smart risk assessment.
The same thing still applies here, he's only played 8 NHL games, no one KNOWS if it's just a flash in the pan, or once shooters get the book on the goalie then the goalie won't be able to bounce back. Real life is about risk assessment, and included in that are their numbers and NHL resume.
Obviously Murray decided that the contract was worth the risk, I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the fact that people think 2.9M is nothing and that this signing basically has no risk, and infact it would've been riskier because OMG if we had waited an extra couple weeks, his contract would've skyrocketted from an already high 2.9 to like 5m. To me that seems unlikely, but it would've definitely been less risky, because theres also a chance that in the next couple weeks he would've come back down to Earth. What if he plays more games like he did in St. Louis?

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02-20-2013, 07:45 PM
  #113
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Happy with the signing, more than I would have hoped but perfect length.

Murray has a lot of depth at goalie and a lot of options, but lets be clear nothing will happen till the draft and even then, standing pat for another is not a bad option still.

He can move either vet if a team is desperate for solid goaltending. If one struggles he has the other to lean on and can move the struggling one for equally overpaid person at another position (like the blake/giguere deal).

He can move Gibson as well if he gets a sweet enough offer.

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02-20-2013, 08:27 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
Happy with the signing, more than I would have hoped but perfect length.

Murray has a lot of depth at goalie and a lot of options, but lets be clear nothing will happen till the draft and even then, standing pat for another is not a bad option still.

He can move either vet if a team is desperate for solid goaltending. If one struggles he has the other to lean on and can move the struggling one for equally overpaid person at another position (like the blake/giguere deal).

He can move Gibson as well if he gets a sweet enough offer.
we can only do this if theres a stud goalie coming back. otherwise we'd have no good goalies with the potential of being NHL starters.

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02-20-2013, 09:00 PM
  #115
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Genius move in my opinion. He was to be free agent. Sign him now for 2.9 mil per year, lose him to FA and get nothing, or have him play lights out and sign him for 5+ mil per year. Added with Hiller's salary, that's a lot of goalie money. Worth the risk for 2 years.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:17 PM
  #116
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This is the right sized gamble to make for the Ducks.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:01 PM
  #117
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Man, if Hiller can stay healthy, that's easily the best goalie tandem since Richter/Vanbezbruk(Yes, I know my spelling sucks)

Decent price, too.

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02-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #118
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Hasek/Fuhr was better ;D

But yah good signing for ANA

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02-20-2013, 11:56 PM
  #119
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No risk here.

Guy has enough value that if he plays average for some games and you need to deal him, contract isnt bad enough that some team wouldnt be will8ng to give him a shot for a year or two.

Hillers health has had question marks, and this is the insurance plan.

I like to see this from my gm. He cares about winning and isnt wanting to risk a season without redundancy or gamble solely on hillers health to save a few bucks. Ducks have cap room anyhoo.

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02-21-2013, 12:50 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
In regards to Hiller and Fasth coexisting, Fasth's backloaded deal paying him $2.4M in the first and $3.4M in the second year, I would agree that it seems to make it relatively unlikely that both are still with the Ducks too deep into next year, before Hiller's contract runs out. $6.9M for that type of tandem doesn't take away the option of keeping both that long, though.
People really need to read this.

Next year if we keep both we will only be paying 1.4 million more in salary (which is all ducks care about) than we are right now. That's not going to be an issue with Getz and Perry at all.

I think what's going to happen is the following:

Ducks will see if Fasth continues to outplay Hiller. If he does and shows he's a number one the rest of the way, they'll explore moving Hiller in offseason.

If Hiller plays as good (or better), they'll hold onto both next season, and will have to make the decision on whether to go with Fasth or re-sign Hiller and trade Fasth.

I definitely do not think both will be here the season after next, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them both here at least until the deadline next year. It's only a 1.4 difference.

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02-21-2013, 03:05 AM
  #121
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Well no, but with the crash-and-burn signings of Brunnstrom and Gustavsson, two other SEL stars who were "slam dunks" to translate to the NHL, Fasth is no guarantee himself either.

Anyway to me this seems like exactly the wrong time to sign him, but it could pay off big. Gamble by the Ducks, but not a huge one.
Kinda OT but Brunnström was never a star in the SEL, not even close. His agent sure did a great job making him look like one though

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02-21-2013, 03:17 AM
  #122
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Depending how those 15 or 20 games went, it very well could.
I don't see it, he's still a first year goalie and it would still only be 25-30 starts.

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02-21-2013, 03:59 AM
  #123
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It's a good deal moneywise and perfect lenghtwise. This extension puts a lot of pressure of the Ducks. Both goalies will go into next season with the #1 position open. Hiller is in his final year and the Ducks can trade him without much risk. Otherwise if Hiller outplays Fasth, Viktor is also quite tradeable with this contract. 4.5 mil + 2.9 mil is good for a top tandem. I mean the big goalies get 6+ and you have to add a backup. This sitiuation also is much safer. I like this a lot.

People here complain about Viktors experience. He is NOT an unproven goalie! The question was, can he play his style here, yes he can! He is not a young goalie who just steps up from the AHL. The SEL is not an easy league, further more, he was outstanding on a mediocre team for two seasons in a row. And he was more than solid for Sweden.

This situation overall is also great for Anderson, Bobkov and Gibson. Time to develop and I've no problems with goalies entering the NHL at the age of 24+ The Ducks are set in goal for the next decade!

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02-21-2013, 09:51 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
if we were able to judge goaltenders solely by their play in different leagues, then when fasth came over he would've already signed a massive deal with a club. the fact of the matter is, these guys don't KNOW how players are going to adjust when they come here, that's why they start them off on a cheap deal. it's not saying that they aren't quality, its just a smart risk assessment.
I'm not saying there's zero risk in any evaluation, and teams certainly are aware of those risks. Still, Fasth isn't only being judged by these eight games. Sure, the adjustment to the NA game is the most difficult projection to make, but the play in Europe isn't out of things. Before the year, they gave him the deal it took, most of all.

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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
The same thing still applies here, he's only played 8 NHL games, no one KNOWS if it's just a flash in the pan, or once shooters get the book on the goalie then the goalie won't be able to bounce back.
No. You know pretty damn well. What's there with Fasth that noone knows about? They know how he plays the game. They see how he plays. They know his skillset. Nothing of that can be mistaken for a "flash in the pan". "Flash in the pan" scenarios involve guys getting lucky. With goaltending, you can get lucky, you can have a team bailing you out, you can have a team allowing you to make a lot of easy saves putting up great numbers, but you cannot luck yourself into having a complete skillset. And that's the job I'm talking about. There's guys misinterpreting stats based on all those ways you can get lucky on, or that you can be particularly unlucky with. Like people that thought Elliott's deal was a steal. (I don't blame the Blues too much at the limited number, but I remember there were guys willing to give more.) Like a good chunk of people thought Tampa's Mike Smith was laughingly terrible while Phoenix' Mike Smith was a top-5 goalie (at times). You cannot emulate a skillset being a flash in the pan. Fasth has the skillset. It won't disappear. He might face less helpful circumstances going forward, and might have a bit more bad luck, translating to worse numbers, but the skillset won't disappear, and that's what he's being paid for.

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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
Real life is about risk assessment, and included in that are their numbers and NHL resume.
You see, that isn't wrong. But we're talking about a guy with barely any NHL resumee, and we're precisely talking about that NHL resumee not being a necessity to get a good idea about a goaltender's quality. Sure, it makes GMs more comfortable. There's no question about that. But even NHL resumees don't make individual skill evaluations obsolete. They are still more important than the resumee. You're well on track with the risk assessment, but that's only the business side of it. You have the on ice side, as well, and it's necessary to make good decisions.

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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
(...) because theres also a chance that in the next couple weeks he would've come back down to Earth.
I do not think that is possible, at all, because he hasn't been away from earth. He has just been really solid. He wasn't getting lucky, making desperation saves that work out for you every odd time. His numbers are helped by the amount of help he gets from the team, but him getting less help and giving up more goals won't mean he's "coming back down to earth" or "cooling down", or whatever. What he's shown so far is exactly a great basis, and I don't see an element to his game that made him succesful so far that could just disappear. (Unless he broke his hip, or had a bunch of muscles cut on the outside of his thigh, or these things.) If goaltender's were paid purely for the numbers they put up, yes, there's a huge chance he would have been cheaper two weeks from now. But that isn't as important.

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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
What if he plays more games like he did in St. Louis?
Then this deal won't look an ounce worse, because there's very little wrong with the game he played in St. Louis - he just got beat five times, which will continue to happen somedays, especially when the team plays bad, as it does with every other goalie. He gave up one soft goal there, on an uncomfortable play as the defenseman didn't put it away as he could and should have. The we have two perfectly screened shots and two non-soft rebounds the defense didn't get go. Fasth wasn't some alter ego that night. His ability just makes it unlikely that we'll see a lot of those games, as long as the guys before him give him a chance, as he does vice versa.

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02-21-2013, 10:46 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
Kinda OT but Brunnström was never a star in the SEL, not even close. His agent sure did a great job making him look like one though
Very true, I chose my words poorly. Let's just say that they (Brunnstrom & Gustavsson) were both very hyped, coming out of the SEL.

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
While I won't try to argue away a certain risk being involved, the bolded isn't true. The basis for this isn't just eight games in the NHL. The basis is the Ducks' staff's evaluation that he'll be worth it. The eight games play into it, but so does everything they have seen from him in the past two years of which we know they haven been watching closely. He's paid for his quality as a hockey player, not for his NHL resumee, and it's not impossible for NHL clubs to come to a fair conclusion on that without a big NHL sample size. That sure leaves a risk. But considering it a gamble on a short hot streak is a misrepresentation of the realities.
I've already made my case that success in another pro league is not necessarily a guarantee of success in the NHL. Like I said, Brunnstrom and Gustavsson (two recent examples off the top of my head but I'm sure you could find many more) were both heavily scouted just like the Ducks did with Fasth and that didn't stop them from falling on their faces in the NHL.

The difference is that Fasth has gotten off to a red-hot start (actually didn't Brunnstrom have a hat trick almost immediately into his NHL career?) but the risks are similar.

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