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The Lars Eller Thread - Coffee Shop Edition

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Old
02-20-2013, 02:10 PM
  #601
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Eller is finally finding his niche in the NHL and I think Therrien played a role. I am not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the part played by Therrien. Eller, vs his play last season and earlier this season, is playing with more intensity in every aspects of his game. As a player, he is growing right before our eyes... and it goes beyond the few pounds he gained during the off season.

Therrien really pushed the right button.
What niche is that? Defensive forward who can chip in offensive and is still developing? What has changed from last year in that regard. If anything it took Therrien a while to realize where Eller's game is at and to put him back in the position Eller already had last year as a top 9 forward still working out his offensive game.

Eller has always played with intensity, even last year and the year before, not much has changed in his game other than he's winning more board battles than last season which has a lot to do with the fact that he bulked up greatly in the summer. His game has always been centred around puck possession and strong board play. This "intensity" in regards to Eller is a myth. He's always played the same way as a player, i.e, carrying the puck through the neutral zone, dumping it behind the goal line and retrieving it. He was one of the better players last year in doing it as well, I really don't see any changes in his game other than he hasn't played with quality linemmates.

I don't credit Therrien because if anything, it has taken Therrien 15 games to realize what he has in Eller only to put him back in the role Eller finished off last season (and finished off on a positive note showing potential for more). Let's not forget that Eller is only in that position because Gallagher is injured (which makes me doubt if Therrien had any intention on moving Eller up into the top 9 at any point) and that Therrien has been reluctant to push Eller up in the depth chart despite being one of the team's better players these 2-3 weeks.

I have little complain about Therrien this season so far (even though I wasn't fond of the hiring), but I don't credit him for anything in regards to Eller.

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02-20-2013, 02:15 PM
  #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Eller is finally finding his niche in the NHL and I think Therrien played a role. I am not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the part played by Therrien. Eller, vs his play last season and earlier this season, is playing with more intensity in every aspects of his game. As a player, he is growing right before our eyes... and it goes beyond the few pounds he gained during the off season.

Therrien really pushed the right button.
I agree with Andy - I think Therrien gets too much credit for how Eller is playing.

Eller trained hard this summer and was playing great in the European leagues before the season started. Many of us were expecting Eller to play like he is playing now.

He had an average first game and Therrien sat him.

There's nothing that indicates to me that Eller would be playing differently had MT kept him in the lineup.
If anything, I'm thinking he'd have had a stronger start to the year had he been kept with strong linemates.

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02-20-2013, 02:17 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
What niche is that? Defensive forward who can chip in offensive and is still developing? What has changed from last year in that regard. If anything it took Therrien a while to realize where Eller's game is at and to put him back in the position Eller already had last year as a top 9 forward still working out his offensive game.

Eller has always played with intensity, even last year and the year before, not much has changed in his game other than he's winning more board battles than last season which has a lot to do with the fact that he bulked up greatly in the summer. His game has always been centred around puck possession and strong board play. This "intensity" in regards to Eller is a myth. He's always played the same way as a player, i.e, carrying the puck through the neutral zone, dumping it behind the goal line and retrieving it. He was one of the better players last year in doing it as well, I really don't see any changes in his game other than he hasn't played with quality linemmates.

I don't credit Therrien because if anything, it has taken Therrien 15 games to realize what he has in Eller only to put him back in the role Eller finished off last season (and finished off on a positive note showing potential for more). Let's not forget that Eller is only in that position because Gallagher is injured (which makes me doubt if Therrien had any intention on moving Eller up into the top 9 at any point) and that Therrien has been reluctant to push Eller up in the depth chart despite being one of the team's better players these 2-3 weeks.

I have little complain about Therrien this season so far (even though I wasn't fond of the hiring), but I don't credit him for anything in regards to Eller.
Yup.

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02-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #604
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
What niche is that? Defensive forward who can chip in offensive and is still developing? What has changed from last year in that regard. If anything it took Therrien a while to realize where Eller's game is at and to put him back in the position Eller already had last year as a top 9 forward still working out his offensive game.

Eller has always played with intensity, even last year and the year before, not much has changed in his game other than he's winning more board battles than last season which has a lot to do with the fact that he bulked up greatly in the summer. His game has always been centred around puck possession and strong board play. This "intensity" in regards to Eller is a myth. He's always played the same way as a player, i.e, carrying the puck through the neutral zone, dumping it behind the goal line and retrieving it. He was one of the better players last year in doing it as well, I really don't see any changes in his game other than he hasn't played with quality linemmates.

I don't credit Therrien because if anything, it has taken Therrien 15 games to realize what he has in Eller only to put him back in the role Eller finished off last season (and finished off on a positive note showing potential for more). Let's not forget that Eller is only in that position because Gallagher is injured (which makes me doubt if Therrien had any intention on moving Eller up into the top 9 at any point) and that Therrien has been reluctant to push Eller up in the depth chart despite being one of the team's better players these 2-3 weeks.

I have little complain about Therrien this season so far (even though I wasn't fond of the hiring), but I don't credit him for anything in regards to Eller.
The last part of your post is weird imo.

Therrien directly challenged him (Pas le temps de niaiser) but he also made sure that Eller understood what was expected of him. On numerous occasions, Eller mentioned that the message was clear and he knew what to do (roughly: more intensity, a “hungrier” approach) to lock himself a spot. Contrary to his fan boys, Eller, during the whole process, stayed calm and answered the bell.

Eller also mentioned that Therrien is a tough but fair coach and the players know that if they put in practice the game plan, they will receive more ice-time. He said that it leads to a healthy internal pressure.

Therrien challenged him at the right time and he made sure Eller understood the situation; he did not keep him in the dark. I say Therrien played a role in Eller’s progression. It’s not a myth: he does look hungrier.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
I agree with Andy - I think Therrien gets too much credit for how Eller is playing.

Eller trained hard this summer and was playing great in the European leagues before the season started. Many of us were expecting Eller to play like he is playing now.

He had an average first game and Therrien sat him.

There's nothing that indicates to me that Eller would be playing differently had MT kept him in the lineup.
If anything, I'm thinking he'd have had a stronger start to the year had he been kept with strong linemates.
I mostly agree with Andy as well. I just find it weird that he refuses to give any credit ("... I don't credit him for anything in regards to Eller.") to Therrien.

Therrien played a role. Should he get all the credit? Of course not.

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Old
02-20-2013, 04:57 PM
  #605
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If it was a problem the line wouldn't be scoring AND shutting down top lines.
Gionta has little to say in both scoring and defending. That's like saying Pacioretty sucks 'cause his line wasn't contributing. Pacioretty didn't suck. Just like Gionta doesn't succeed.

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02-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Bulis was a good two ways player and we often questioned ourselves about his ability to play on the top2 lines. He was a good 3rd line player imo. Just like Eller (and here I know you won’t like me!), he was suffering from a mild case of tunnel vision and, from time to time, he did need someone to light a fire under his chair.

That said, I also prefer, a lot, Eller over Bulis.
I think it's a pretty good comparison in terms of, "What exactly do we have here?" Bulis showed a lot of potential. One year he was dynamite in the preseason. He was a centre (originally) with decent size who could skate and had all of the tangible skills needed to be a productive top 6 player. He just never put it together. Eller is similar in that way of, "What's holding him back?".

I really like Eller, and I do think he could be a very good versatile two-way player, but at the same time I still see him inexplicably flub the kind of simple offensive play that has to be routine for a guy who plays regularly in the top 6 on a good team.

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02-20-2013, 05:20 PM
  #607
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Bulis was Eller's age now when he was traded to the Habs. If we are going to make that lazy comparison, shouldn't we at least give Eller time first?

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02-20-2013, 05:42 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bulis was Eller's age now when he was traded to the Habs. If we are going to make that lazy comparison, shouldn't we at least give Eller time first?
Why is that a lazy comparison? You might think that different factors ought to be weighted differently so as to come up with a better (or just different) comparator, but I wouldn't call it lazy to specify certain factors and make a comparison on that basis. Lazy disagreement, I think.

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02-20-2013, 05:56 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
What niche is that? Defensive forward who can chip in offensive and is still developing? What has changed from last year in that regard. If anything it took Therrien a while to realize where Eller's game is at and to put him back in the position Eller already had last year as a top 9 forward still working out his offensive game.

Eller has always played with intensity, even last year and the year before, not much has changed in his game other than he's winning more board battles than last season which has a lot to do with the fact that he bulked up greatly in the summer. His game has always been centred around puck possession and strong board play. This "intensity" in regards to Eller is a myth. He's always played the same way as a player, i.e, carrying the puck through the neutral zone, dumping it behind the goal line and retrieving it. He was one of the better players last year in doing it as well, I really don't see any changes in his game other than he hasn't played with quality linemmates.

I don't credit Therrien because if anything, it has taken Therrien 15 games to realize what he has in Eller only to put him back in the role Eller finished off last season (and finished off on a positive note showing potential for more). Let's not forget that Eller is only in that position because Gallagher is injured (which makes me doubt if Therrien had any intention on moving Eller up into the top 9 at any point) and that Therrien has been reluctant to push Eller up in the depth chart despite being one of the team's better players these 2-3 weeks.

I have little complain about Therrien this season so far (even though I wasn't fond of the hiring), but I don't credit him for anything in regards to Eller.
Jacques Martin played Eller on the 4th line in his first season, neglecting his potential, and accidentally formed the Eller-AK combination by punishing Kostitsyn, taking him away from the top 9. For some reason, both of these coaches didn't trust Eller.

I agree with you, justifying the coach for scratching Eller after game 1 doesn't make sense, let alone crediting him for Lars "sudden" resurgence. If anything, Therrien missed the boat and got lucky, just like Martin.

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02-20-2013, 06:01 PM
  #610
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Same here. It really pisses me off when people attribute his play to the benching because it sells Eller short. He looks a lot like the Eller of last year except that he his much stronger, which is an important improvement since Eller's game really is centred on puck possession and board work. We saw him play the same game last year, just he wasn't as strong.

It's not like Eller was crap for 10 games before he got benched. He played 1 ****ing game, the first game of the season and was bad like everyone else that night. This myth that Eller is working hard because of the benching attributes the success of Eller to outside factors instead of himself. Eller has always been a hard working player, especially on the boards.

The big difference is that he is now actually playing with a quality linemate. Every time he had played with linemates with some talent Eller has put up points. He did with Andrei, did it with Desharnais, did it with his brief stint with Cammalleri and Plekanec and he is doing it now with Galchenyuk. The potential is there, the coach has to put him in positions to extract that potential and Eller has proven that he belongs in those positions.
Eller overrated.

Prust underrated.

One could make a very valid argument that Prust has elevated Eller's game and not the other way around. Remember, it was Prust and not Eller that made the sweet pass to Galchenyuk.

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02-20-2013, 06:03 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Eller overrated.

Prust underrated.

One could make a very valid argument that Prust has elevated Eller's game and not the other way around. Remember, it was Prust and not Eller that made the sweet pass to Galchenyuk.
remember it was Eller who blocked a shot and gained the opponents zone.

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02-20-2013, 06:24 PM
  #612
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remember it was Eller who blocked a shot and gained the opponents zone.
We can go tit for tat on plays made.

But not my intention. I was simply making a point to a poster who is celebrating Eller scoring an assist on that play while dismissing Prust.

And Eller's newfound scoring prowess is owed entirely to playing with "a quality linemate"..................not linemates.

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02-20-2013, 07:46 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
We can go tit for tat on plays made.

But not my intention. I was simply making a point to a poster who is celebrating Eller scoring an assist on that play while dismissing Prust.

And Eller's newfound scoring prowess is owed entirely to playing with "a quality linemate"..................not linemates.
Both did fine, Eller blocking the shot and rushing to the opposing zone and Prust with his pass.

Anyway, think anyone would agree that Galchenyuk and Prust are better (offensively) than Moen and Armstrong... so yeah, it's pretty obvious Eller would do better offensively on another line...

and besides, he does have more points than Prust, despite not playing with players as gifted as the two kids as often.

Nothing against Prust, love his play so far, but it's pretty clear he doesnt have the offensive abilities Eller has.

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02-20-2013, 07:48 PM
  #614
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Lars "The Great Dane" Eller

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02-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #615
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Nice to see Eller get almost a full page of love ! YAY

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02-21-2013, 12:08 AM
  #616
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Lars "The Great Dane" Eller
The Great Dane


.



Lock it down

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02-21-2013, 12:54 AM
  #617
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The last part of your post is weird imo.

Therrien directly challenged him (Pas le temps de niaiser) but he also made sure that Eller understood what was expected of him. On numerous occasions, Eller mentioned that the message was clear and he knew what to do (roughly: more intensity, a “hungrier” approach) to lock himself a spot. Contrary to his fan boys, Eller, during the whole process, stayed calm and answered the bell.

Eller also mentioned that Therrien is a tough but fair coach and the players know that if they put in practice the game plan, they will receive more ice-time. He said that it leads to a healthy internal pressure.

Therrien challenged him at the right time and he made sure Eller understood the situation; he did not keep him in the dark. I say Therrien played a role in Eller’s progression. It’s not a myth: he does look hungrier.
That's just because you think Eller elevated his play due to Therrien's words.
I agree with Andy, I view it as a coincidence more than anything else.

How many NHL players this year looked pretty crappy after their first game?? None of them had a real training camp, no one played exhibition games. On top of it in Mtl, we had a new system. Just look at how long it took Washington to finally start playing better under their new system.

Like Andy said, Eller is playing the exact same way he's always played. The differences you see in his game are more due to his natural progression than Therrien lighting up a fire under his butt. If anything, Therrien held him back. Like we're holding PK back.

Eller should be getting top 6 minutes at this point in his progression. He shouldn't be averaging 18 seconds more of PP time than Prust, or 40sec more overall. That's a waste of his skills.

Therrien has done a much better job than I thought, but I fully disagree with Eller's handling. I fully expected Eller to play the way he is now based on the fact his defensive game improved a lot under Martin and he showed good offensive upside playing with AK last year. I'm not surprised by his current play.
I wanted him to play with Gionta and expected them to absolutely dominate their opponents as a 3rd line, and also get PP time.

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02-21-2013, 04:16 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's just because you think Eller elevated his play due to Therrien's words.
I agree with Andy, I view it as a coincidence more than anything else.

How many NHL players this year looked pretty crappy after their first game?? None of them had a real training camp, no one played exhibition games. On top of it in Mtl, we had a new system. Just look at how long it took Washington to finally start playing better under their new system.

Like Andy said, Eller is playing the exact same way he's always played. The differences you see in his game are more due to his natural progression than Therrien lighting up a fire under his butt. If anything, Therrien held him back. Like we're holding PK back.

Eller should be getting top 6 minutes at this point in his progression. He shouldn't be averaging 18 seconds more of PP time than Prust, or 40sec more overall. That's a waste of his skills.

Therrien has done a much better job than I thought, but I fully disagree with Eller's handling. I fully expected Eller to play the way he is now based on the fact his defensive game improved a lot under Martin and he showed good offensive upside playing with AK last year. I'm not surprised by his current play.
I wanted him to play with Gionta and expected them to absolutely dominate their opponents as a 3rd line, and also get PP time.

Who is the real top six in your view?

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02-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #619
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Lars is getting all the ladies!

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...id=DL|MTL|home

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02-21-2013, 08:43 AM
  #620
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Who is the real top six in your view?
At this point, Pleks and MaxPac to me are the only two guys that should clearly have more icetime than Eller.
Gionta generally probably would be up there but he hasn't been playing all that well.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher have arguably been stronger offensively but can't be counted on against tougher lines at this point.

Bourque has played well, but he's also not as strong defensively.

My top 6 in terms of who should get most icetime would be:
Pleks, MaxPac, Gionta, Eller, Bourque, Galchenyuk (with DD/Gallagher not far behind).

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02-21-2013, 09:09 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Who is the real top six in your view?
To me it's not about being top 6, as I said I wanted Eller to be paired with an offensive but defensively reliable winger on the 3rd line. However, this didn't mean getting 3rd line minutes as 3rd liners don't get PP time usually. So, on the 3rd line with PP ice time, and his usual PK time. That would give him about 15min per game which is what I consider top 6 ice time.

But, to go back to your question. Out of our current group, only Plek-Bourque-MaxPac really deserve to be called top 6 at this point.
DD and Gionta have 1 point more than Eller despite having played 80-115 minutes more than him. I know Gionta faces tougher opponents, but we still need more production out of our 1st line winger, .5 scoring pace isn't good enough. I'm not surprised though, he's where I though he'd be in terms of production, that's why I wanted him moved down to the 3rd line.
No need to really discuss Cole's underwhelming performance.

With the way some of these guys are playing, I'd have no issues in giving Eller a crack at it. Actually, this should have been attempted early on when MaxPac got his surgery. Therrien should have tried moving DD on the wing and keeping Eller at center.

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02-21-2013, 09:43 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's just because you think Eller elevated his play due to Therrien's words.
I agree with Andy, I view it as a coincidence more than anything else.

How many NHL players this year looked pretty crappy after their first game?? None of them had a real training camp, no one played exhibition games. On top of it in Mtl, we had a new system. Just look at how long it took Washington to finally start playing better under their new system.

Like Andy said, Eller is playing the exact same way he's always played. The differences you see in his game are more due to his natural progression than Therrien lighting up a fire under his butt. If anything, Therrien held him back. Like we're holding PK back.

Eller should be getting top 6 minutes at this point in his progression. He shouldn't be averaging 18 seconds more of PP time than Prust, or 40sec more overall. That's a waste of his skills.

Therrien has done a much better job than I thought, but I fully disagree with Eller's handling. I fully expected Eller to play the way he is now based on the fact his defensive game improved a lot under Martin and he showed good offensive upside playing with AK last year. I'm not surprised by his current play.
I wanted him to play with Gionta and expected them to absolutely dominate their opponents as a 3rd line, and also get PP time.
Just for the record: (1) I don’t think it is strictly because of Therrien, (2) when I wrote that Eller looks hungrier, I was referring to his whole tenure in Montreal, not just the first game of the season and (3) good communication + knowing when and how to challenge your players = Therrien did a good job. Frankly, it is weird seeing both of you refusing to acknowledge the role (as small as it may have been) played by Therrien in Eller’s progression.

Eller is growing right before our eyes and, based on his whole tenure with us, he did need a slight push to reach “the next level”. I hope he keeps it up: he is one of the main reasons why our “bottom” lines are usually outplaying our opponent’s bottom lines.

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02-21-2013, 11:09 AM
  #623
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Just for the record: (1) I don’t think it is strictly because of Therrien, (2) when I wrote that Eller looks hungrier, I was referring to his whole tenure in Montreal, not just the first game of the season and (3) good communication + knowing when and how to challenge your players = Therrien did a good job. Frankly, it is weird seeing both of you refusing to acknowledge the role (as small as it may have been) played by Therrien in Eller’s progression.

Eller is growing right before our eyes and, based on his whole tenure with us, he did need a slight push to reach “the next level”. I hope he keeps it up: he is one of the main reasons why our “bottom” lines are usually outplaying our opponent’s bottom lines.
I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything. Of course Therrien is teaching the kid some things, that's his job. Are we going to give thumbs up to someone for doing his job? I'm not.
Point is, Therrien isn't doing this amazing job with Eller to the point where he needs to be credited for it.
There was no need for Eller to be sat out or challenged. You realize that they didn't play any exhibition games right? That Eller, even if he played some hockey, might have started getting used to the larger ice and european style of the game. So, a couple of games adjusting his play was expected, just like every other player on this team. Heck, Cole still hasn't been able to bring his level of play to where it was.

What I'm saying is that Eller would be playing the exact same way (or maybe even better) if he had been kept in the roster right from the start, and not on the 4th line. I also think he should have been playing bigger minutes right from the start.

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02-21-2013, 12:39 PM
  #624
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I for one would rather have Eller than a 5 million dollar 2nd line centre.
If you mean Plekanec, no.

But Plekanec is a top-30 center so not really a #2. It is normal for him to get $5M to play top minutes on the team and average 20+ goals while playing both PP and PK.

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02-21-2013, 01:01 PM
  #625
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Gionta has little to say in both scoring and defending. That's like saying Pacioretty sucks 'cause his line wasn't contributing. Pacioretty didn't suck. Just like Gionta doesn't succeed.
BS. You're adjusting the facts to your beliefs. Try actually watching the games. Gio is playing well after a slow start.

People on here are so obsessed bout age and cap hit taht it completely skews their objectivity.

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