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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #476
Johnny Engine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Philadelphia selects LW Kevin Stevens



1x 1st Team All Star
2x 2nd Team All Star

For 418 games of Stevens' career, he played at 1.21PPG hockey, scoring 502 points. For the other 456 games, he played at .49PPG hockey, scoring 224 points(which mostly occurred in a lower scoring era). What to expect from him here is somewhere in the middle, but that combination of offense, a great physical game, great size, and a good skater for a big man is too much to pass up here. He'll give Joe Thornton a player similar to the guy he has succeeded with in San Jose; a big man that can skate and shoot. He and Grant Fuhr should make for quite a party.
I keep asking myself with him and a few other guys like him, "how far exactly can he drop before I just snag him as a PP specialist?"
He wouldn't fit in with my team's regular system at all, but my god, what a weapon at this stage in the draft.

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:50 PM
  #477
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Halifax selects Red Dutton, D.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:01 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Stoneberg View Post
Halifax selects Red Dutton, D.
I looked hard at Dutton, and I have a lot of information on him, largely as an NHL exec, and I will post it in the Dishing the Dirt thread when I get around to it.

As a player, I think he's a good pick, but not a great one.

The basics:
  • 1st Team WCHL All-Star in 1922. At this point, the WCHL was still clearly behind the NHL and PCHA, so I don't think it's all that impressive.
  • 1st Team WCHL All-Star in 1924. By 1924, the WCHL was probably better than the PCHA, but not as good as it would be in 1925 when it absorbed the PCHA.
  • He received a single 2nd Team vote on the 1928 GM-voted All-Star Team, which is pretty meh.
  • He played in the NHL after the WCHL folded, and does not appear to have gotten significant Hart consideration until 1931.

His record after 1931:
  • 1931: 5th in All Star voting, 7th in Hart voting
  • 1932: 6th in All Star voting, 4th in Hart voting
  • 1933: a single All-Star vote (basically meaningless)
  • 1934: 8th in All Star voting
  • 1935: a single All-Star vote (basically meaningless)
  • 1936: Zero votes for the All Star team. But 5th in Hart voting. Why?

In the past, we wondered why his Hart record was so much better than his All-Star record. Well, I think that Dutton's 5th place finish in Hart voting in 1936 seems to be for his contributions as player-coach, and seems to have had nothing to do with how he performed as a player. If it did, why would the exact same writers who gave him Hart consideration not even throw him a single All-Star vote? His wikipedia page calls him a player-coach for 1935-36, and here's an article that says that Dutton would become the second playing-coach the NHL has ever seen since Lionel Conacher: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+dutton&hl=en. Once you understand why he got Hart votes for 1936, the rest of his record doesn't look that crazy. 1932 is a little strange, but not that crazy.

Edit: Dutton was 37 years old in 1935-36 and would retire as a player after the season was over and go into coaching full-time.

I see Dutton as a good defensive-minded #4, not a great one, like I used to.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-20-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 08:02 PM
  #479
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The Ottawa Senators select LW Dave Andreychuk



640 NHL goals, a record 274 of which came with the man advantage.

Most of you are probably pretty familiar with Andreychuk's game - he was a big, strong winger with soft hands who was at his best in front of the net. A righthanded shot, he spent most of his career on the left wing.

One thing I didn't know about Andreychuk's career until recently - he was drafted as a centre and played that position for his first three seasons in the NHL.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:05 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
The Ottawa Senators select LW Dave Andreychuk



640 NHL goals, a record 274 of which came with the man advantage.

Most of you are probably pretty familiar with Andreychuk's game - he was a big, strong winger with soft hands who was at his best in front of the net. A righthanded shot, he spent most of his career on the left wing.

One thing I didn't know about Andreychuk's career until recently - he was drafted as a centre and played that position for his first three seasons in the NHL.
Who's better, Dave Andreychuk or Tim Kerr?

Edit: Andreychuk was pretty good at faceoffs late in his career, at least.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-20-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 08:12 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Here's my review of your team here:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...k#post46467709

Clearly calling both Boyle and Beck number 4's...Not sure what your point is. I'd clearly pick Beck as my number 4 in this draft.
Fair enough.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 02-20-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 08:15 PM
  #482
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I looked at Dutton too and was surprised in the game reports I found for how often he was praised for his rushing ability. I found more references to that than his defensive ability somehow.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:20 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I looked hard at Dutton, and I have a lot of information on him, largely as an NHL exec, and I will post it in the Dishing the Dirt thread when I get around to it.

As a player, I think he's a good pick, but not a great one.

The basics:
  • 1st Team WCHL All-Star in 1922. At this point, the WCHL was still clearly behind the NHL and PCHA, so I don't think it's all that impressive.
  • 1st Team WCHL All-Star in 1924. By 1924, the WCHL was probably better than the PCHA, but not as good as it would be in 1925 when it absorbed the PCHA.
  • He received a single 2nd Team vote on the 1928 GM-voted All-Star Team, which is pretty meh.
  • He played in the NHL after the WCHL folded, and does not appear to have gotten significant Hart consideration until 1931.

His record after 1931:
  • 1931: 5th in All Star voting, 7th in Hart voting
  • 1932: 6th in All Star voting, 4th in Hart voting
  • 1933: a single All-Star vote (basically meaningless)
  • 1934: 8th in All Star voting
  • 1935: a single All-Star vote (basically meaningless)
  • 1936: Zero votes for the All Star team. But 5th in Hart voting. Why?

In the past, we wondered why his Hart record was so much better than his All-Star record. Well, I think that Dutton's 5th place finish in Hart voting in 1936 seems to be for his contributions as player-coach, and seems to have had nothing to do with how he performed as a player. If it did, why would the exact same writers who gave him Hart consideration not even throw him a single All-Star vote? His wikipedia page calls him a player-coach for 1935-36, and here's an article that says that Dutton would become the second playing-coach the NHL has ever seen since Lionel Conacher: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+dutton&hl=en. Once you understand why he got Hart votes for 1936, the rest of his record doesn't look that crazy. 1932 is a little strange, but not that crazy.

Edit: Dutton was 37 years old in 1935-36 and would retire as a player after the season was over and go into coaching full-time.

I see Dutton as a good defensive-minded #4, not a great one, like I used to.
Gah, really thought he'd be there at 387, thought he would completely slip underneath the rug. More and more I read I was a big fan.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:34 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Gah, really thought he'd be there at 387, thought he would completely slip underneath the rug. More and more I read I was a big fan.
Dutton was drafted at 328 last time!

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:37 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Who's better, Dave Andreychuk or Tim Kerr?

Edit: Andreychuk was pretty good at faceoffs late in his career, at least.
It's a natural comparison based on style but the shapes of their careers were so different that it's hard to say.

Kerr was the bigger star at his peak, with slightly higher scoring numbers and more playoff success.

Andreychuk played 1000 more NHL games and was a Stanley Cup winning captain at an age when Kerr had been retired for 7 years.

You don't draft either of these guys for their playmaking or defence, but Andreychuk was better at both. He led his teams in assists three times and Kerr never finished higher than third. In his 30s he became a regular penalty killer as well, which Kerr never did.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:53 PM
  #486
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Andreychuk will also be fantastic in front of the net on the PP with MacInnis firing rockets

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:59 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Dutton was drafted at 328 last time!
I thought he might've been viewed as a Leaf Lander pick that everyone would look past

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:14 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
I keep asking myself with him and a few other guys like him, "how far exactly can he drop before I just snag him as a PP specialist?" He wouldn't fit in with my team's regular system at all, but my god, what a weapon at this stage in the draft.
Agreed. I've been drafting different positions, but after round 9 he would have been one of my top 5 or 6 choices at LW definitely.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:25 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Philadelphia selects LW Kevin Stevens
\
A steal at this point.

Great peak and, before the he was a product of Mario crowd chimes in, a two time 40 goal man without the big guy too.

Too bad he had that horrible injury and then the personal issues afterwards -- for a few seasons he was one of if not the best power forward in the league.

I would have taken him for sure my next pick. Was wondering how far he'd drop.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:27 PM
  #490
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You guys just destroyed my short list. Wanted to get K. Stevens or Andreychuk for some size up front.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:06 PM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Who's better, Dave Andreychuk or Tim Kerr?

Edit: Andreychuk was pretty good at faceoffs late in his career, at least.
That's funny, when I picked Kerr someone else wrote that he was a good face off man too...

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:08 PM
  #492
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You guys just destroyed my short list. Wanted to get K. Stevens or Andreychuk for some size up front.
Yeah, I was leaning that way too...

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:11 PM
  #493
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That's funny, when I picked Kerr someone else wrote that he was a good face off man too...
Kerr was a great faceoff man

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:19 PM
  #494
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Les Nordiques de Québec are pleased to select the player we have as arguably the best pure scorer left: RW Gordie Drillon


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Old
02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
  #495
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Les Nordiques de Québec are pleased to select the player we have as arguably the best pure scorer left: RW Gordie Drillon

I don't think it's arguable at all. He and Novy were co-BPA for a long time IMO, and Drillon should have extra value as a wing.

Drillon is basically terrible at everything but scoring goals, but what a goal scorer! I was really surprised to see overpass pass on him in favor of Dave Taylor as a guy to finish off the reconstructed Punch Line.

You guys going with 3 pure scoring lines, eh? It'll be interesting to see how that works out for you.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #496
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It's an absolute travesty how far Kevin Stevens used to go ahead of Keith Tkachuk. Good to see things are getting sorted out in the draft.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:42 PM
  #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Les Nordiques de Québec are pleased to select the player we have as arguably the best pure scorer left: RW Gordie Drillon

Been the BPA for a long time. I wish I could have found a way to fit him into my plans, but his lack of backchecking ability just didn't fit with how the rest of my team was built. Had I known he would fall this far, I would have changed who I picked earlier so I could accommodate him because he's a steal right now.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:44 PM
  #498
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Les Nordiques de Québec are pleased to select the player we have as arguably the best pure scorer left: RW Gordie Drillon

Statistically, he's a better playmaker than Bauer

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:57 PM
  #499
TheDevilMadeMe
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Statistically, he's a better playmaker than Bauer
I think "playmaker" meant something a little different back then than it does now. Now that Drillon is FINALLY drafted, I'll be able to finally post the relevant Dink Carroll column - Drillon's ability to pick up Syl Apps' trash is a big part of the column. Nik jr posted the column in a lineup assassination thread a few years back, but I think it should be re-posted somewhere where it's easier to find and comment on.

My suspicion is that that back then, "playmaking" referred more to how a player skated the puck up the ice and made the first pass in the offensive zone - sort of like a point guard in modern basketball. In modern terms, of course, the playmaker is the one who makes the last pass that leads to a goal (and therefore gets an assist), but I don't think that's what the term really meant back then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's an absolute travesty how far Kevin Stevens used to go ahead of Keith Tkachuk. Good to see things are getting sorted out in the draft.
GMs used to be absolutely terrified of players with poor playoff records. Correction: GMs used to be terrified of modern players with poor playoff records.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:00 PM
  #500
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Hav'nt got a PM as of yet but Viking Maniacs selects Ulf Samuelsson.

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