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Old
02-20-2013, 07:29 PM
  #201
BlueBaron
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Did that leafs fan seriously bring up Duchene like the Leafs could put together a package that gets them Matt?
If you think Matt is worth more than all the assets in our franchise you my friend are the one with the issues.

People who make these statements usually don't think when they make them. Considering the value star players have been traded for in the past to say we could not meet the value of any player on your team is laughable. Is he worth more than Nash ? Kovalchuck ? Thorton ? Because the current Leaf franchise could mach the value of those trades easily.

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02-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Why does option 3 have to be more or less out of the equation? Its not like the Avs are forced to trade him, they can make him wait the full 2 or 6 years(whatever it is) until he becomes a UFA if they really wanted to.

Now, that obviously wouldn't be a smart choice, but its not impossible. And because of that the Avs can wait until they get the right deal for ROR, which is what they've done so far. And if they don't get that deal, they can always sign him. ROR wants to play with the Avs, its just the Avs don't feel he's worth 5M right now. But if they absolutely have to, Im pretty sure they would pay him that money, if every trade option was out of the question.
You answered your own question.

What does Avs benefit from that? They would then get nothing and have to hear about how they have wasted RoRīs career for the next 4 years and probably longer then that.

It is better to get a roster player and a pick then nothing at all other then negative attention.

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02-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
If you think Matt is worth more than all the assets in our franchise you my friend are the one with the issues.

People who make these statements usually don't think when they make them. Considering the value star players have been traded for in the past to say we could not meet the value of any player on your team is laughable. Is he worth more than Nash ? Kovalchuck ? Thorton ? Because the current Leaf franchise could mach the value of those trades easily.
Lemme put it this way, if Nonis called up Sherman today and offered Rielly and Kessel for Matt Duchene Greg wouldn't even have to think long before saying no. Add your first round pick, still no without much hesitation. Now do you understand why I thought it was hilarious you brought up Duchene? With how important he is to the Avs right now there's no way for Matt Duchene to become a leaf.

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02-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I live in the GTA and the Leafs are my 2nd favourite team with the Avs my first. What pisses me off about Leafs fans and their talk radio is how they constantly think they're going to land any big piece that becomes available but they never wanna offer anything. You want a potential first line centre? Bite the bullet and trade a ****ing asset for him. If a team like the Kings can trade the most well-rated already drafted prospect in the NHL at the time...Brayden Schenn for Mike Richards then you can trade Morgan Reilly who's not even in the top 5. Mike Richards was a near cup winner....so? Ryan O'Reilly's trajectory of performance is just as good and he was better last season than Richards. Leafs fans are the cheapest group I've seen. Their mgmt under Burke followed this too. He had the oppurtunity to trade for top 6 centres but they never had the balls to move a piece to do this. Guess what Leafs fans, adding Morgan Reilly who MIGHT become a no2 dman will not help your team out more than adding a player who's already played like a 1a centre. I shudder to think what they'd lowball if Getzlaf or Perry became available for trade.

Had to put up with this crap all summer.....we want a starting goalie but derp we don't wanna trade anyone who's good or might be good for us in the future.
This post is so full of fail. Mike Richards is not even close to a comp here because:

1. Mike Richards had put up numerous seasons of 60+ points including a couple of 80ish point seasons
2. Mike Richards was signed VERY LONG TERM to a team friendly contract
3. Mike Richards captained an excellent playoff contending team

So now that that is out of the way...

Morgan Rielly isn't even a top 5?

Morgan Rielly is probably the top drafted D prospect outside of the NHL right now...

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:40 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by csanadi19 View Post
Even though i agree that the particular proposal is in the avs favour, to say ROR won't return a blue chipper is completely inaccurate. Now as you said our fan base is hard to to talk to, let go over the reasons for this:

1) when trading with the leafs, we want a defenseman that can play top pairing minutes with EJ, because trading for any forward on the leafs would be uselesss because of our depth. And we do not want Gunnarson as we do not believe he's 1st pairing material.

2) Leafs fan continue to make proposal stating its fair value for them, but when avs fan say no we're the ones gauging value wrong.

3) we plain and simple are sick of the leafs scraps for Colorado deals. If you want to give quality we will gladly discuss fair value for ROR, but it seems like leaf fans consistently think they can get our players for scraps, even tho we reject the offer 99 times outta 100
i have gone on record by saying gunnerson+bozak+prospect/pick would be a good deal for both sides, i have also said gunnerson/bozak+percy/Finn+2nd would be a good trade for both sides.

and if ROR had a contract with the avs i would completely say Gardiner for ROR is fair yes... but u never see blue chip prospects traded for RFA's....

and i do realize leaf fans are hard to talk trade with, but in my experience here we have usually been pretty close to value (see kaberle deal)

what avs fans see: ROR

what everyone else sees: ROR without a contract, and thats where av fans get dont realize they wont get as much as they want for him.

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:41 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
You answered your own question.

What does Avs benefit from that? They would then get nothing and have to hear about how they have wasted RoRīs career for the next 4 years and probably longer then that.

It is better to get a roster player and a pick then nothing at all other then negative attention.
They send the message to their RFAs that if they try to bully the Avs in negotiations, they will be the ones who are ****ed. It helps the tank this year, which has a twofold effect, one the obvious better prospect, btu even more importantly it gets Joe Sacco fired, and he's been holding the tema back even more than the craptastic defense. Plus his value won't be any lower this offseason than it is right now or will be at the deadline. He'll still be an RFA for 4 more years, and maybe after losing a whole years paycheck he eases off of his demands, making him even more appealing in a trade if you know he just wants to play again and will sign for cheap with a team that'll give him a top 6 role.

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Old
02-20-2013, 07:48 PM
  #207
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
You answered your own question.

What does Avs benefit from that? They would then get nothing and have to hear about how they have wasted RoRīs career for the next 4 years and probably longer then that.

It is better to get a roster player and a pick then nothing at all other then negative attention.
Yes, but it would also be of better interest for the Avs to just resign ROR and give him his 5M for 2 years then it would be to get what they view to be significantly less value on the market then he's worth.

So both of those options you listed earlier cant be out of play. If resigning him is 100% not an option, then making him lose 5 years of development(effectively destroying his career anyways actually) is a possiblilty if they don't get what they want from a trade.

And if letting him rot for 5 years isn't a possibility(which its not, but for the sake of argument I listed it as earlier) then resigning him is an option.

The Avs don't have to trade ROR, they can still resign him leaving both sides happy to an extent. ROR still wants to play for COL, that's the reason he hasn't requested a trade yet.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:06 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
If you think Matt is worth more than all the assets in our franchise you my friend are the one with the issues.

People who make these statements usually don't think when they make them. Considering the value star players have been traded for in the past to say we could not meet the value of any player on your team is laughable. Is he worth more than Nash ? Kovalchuck ? Thorton ? Because the current Leaf franchise could mach the value of those trades easily.
You couldn't even get Luongo...

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:31 PM
  #209
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I miss the care free days when avs fans would sarcastically turn down our offers for stastny, those were fun. I still think there is a deal to be had that benefits both teams, hope it happens soon. Off topic but it seems like the avs draft and sign a lot of players with an irish background. Am I incorrect? Is there a reason for it, is it random, or am I just more aware of it because of my background (most likely answer)

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:34 PM
  #210
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
what everyone else sees: ROR without a contract, and thats where av fans get dont realize they wont get as much as they want for him.
What everyone else sees is a young star still developing they think they can get for a discount and claim they stole him.

What we see is a young guy that is ok staying in Colorado but is getting poor advice from his agent and father, as well as wants more money than he is immediately worth.

We as fans have no idea how close or far apart the Avs actually are, nor what is going on between them. But what is obvious is no one has offered to pay what Sherman is asking because he is still on our team and we hold all the power in his negotiations and in trade negotiations.

If people won't pay Sherman's price, he'll stay an Av.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:38 PM
  #211
pooleboy
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
What everyone else sees is a young star still developing they think they can get for a discount and claim they stole him.

What we see is a young guy that is ok staying in Colorado but is getting poor advice from his agent and father, as well as wants more money than he is immediately worth.

We as fans have no idea how close or far apart the Avs actually are, nor what is going on between them. But what is obvious is no one has offered to pay what Sherman is asking because he is still on our team and we hold all the power in his negotiations and in trade negotiations.

If people won't pay Sherman's price, he'll stay an Av.
and if he stays an av that sets a horrible precedent for any future UFA players. Players like where they are treated fairly..... if they dont trade him (give him a chance) and keep him it is only hurting your team, yes he will stay an av... will he ever play for u guys? no... will it give u negative comments yes... why would any franchise want negative comments against them and really asking for it?

fact: ROR isn't going to sign with Colorado, if he has waited this long no way he signs.

and for those reasons u dont really hold THAT much power.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:40 PM
  #212
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
and if he stays an av that sets a horrible precedent for any future UFA players. Players like where they are treated fairly..... if they dont trade him (give him a chance) and keep him it is only hurting your team, yes he will stay an av... will he ever play for u guys? no... will it give u negative comments yes... why would any franchise want negative comments against them and really asking for it?

fact: ROR isn't going to sign with Colorado, if he has waited this long no way he signs.

and for those reasons u dont really hold THAT much power.
Might want to go back to a dictionary and look up the difference between fact and speculation.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:41 PM
  #213
pooleboy
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
You couldn't even get Luongo...
lmao nice post


we never wanted Luongo and our management team has said many times we wont pay the price for Luongo, and they wont pay the price for ROR and we are probably the most fitting suitor so...

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02-20-2013, 08:45 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Might want to go back to a dictionary and look up the difference between fact and speculation.
hate to burst your bubble but read the last paragraph in this article

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...alanche/12635/

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02-20-2013, 08:47 PM
  #215
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lmao nice post


we never wanted Luongo and our management team has said many times we wont pay the price for Luongo, and they wont pay the price for ROR and we are probably the most fitting suitor so...
I think a team like Anaheim or Chicago with a need for a 2nd line centre is a better suitor than the Leafs who need a 1C.

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02-20-2013, 08:48 PM
  #216
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I think a team like Anaheim or Chicago with a need for a 2nd line centre is a better suitor than the Leafs who need a 1C.
Anaheim idk, Chicago i could see. im going on the assumption they want to trade him to the east.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:12 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
I didn't know players were considered as "stars" just after a career high 55 points playing in their 3rd season.
No but they ARE considered TOP PAIRING after ONE season with 30 points.

Did I do that right? Or does it only work for you guys?

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02-20-2013, 09:19 PM
  #218
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
hate to burst your bubble but read the last paragraph in this article

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...alanche/12635/


Dater wrote that. He knows about as much about the situation as you do.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:25 PM
  #219
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You couldn't even get Luongo...
we never actually offered for luongo because his asking price was just insane from the canucks so you can't claim we couldn't get him.

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:34 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by csanadi19 View Post
Even though i agree that the particular proposal is in the avs favour, to say ROR won't return a blue chipper is completely inaccurate. Now as you said our fan base is hard to to talk to, let go over the reasons for this:

1) when trading with the leafs, we want a defenseman that can play top pairing minutes with EJ, because trading for any forward on the leafs would be uselesss because of our depth. And we do not want Gunnarson as we do not believe he's 1st pairing material.

2) Leafs fan continue to make proposal stating its fair value for them, but when avs fan say no we're the ones gauging value wrong.

3) we plain and simple are sick of the leafs scraps for Colorado deals. If you want to give quality we will gladly discuss fair value for ROR, but it seems like leaf fans consistently think they can get our players for scraps, even tho we reject the offer 99 times outta 100
I am a LEafs fan that wants nothign to do with ROR.

Some of the rediculous offers I have seen for him make me spill my beer.

Some of the prices the AVs want are equally rediculous.

ROR is a good defensive player. He happened, due to necessity, to play top line minutes last season. HE had a carreer year. Good for him.

However, he has only had the one good year. HE has never even in junior hit 20goals in a season, and even in Junior he never posted a PPG season.

Granted he is better than Bozak, and might become more offensive than GRabo, but the difference between them, the actual UPGRADE for the Leafs is not worht anything near Gardiner, or Frattin, or Kadri, or Rielly or whaever top young player that seems to be the starting point.

I don't see ROR as a bonafide #1C. That is what the LEafs need.
So if you want to talk about Duchene the cupboards are open and there is a lot available. But for ROR, it just isn't happening.

Please sign him or Trade him somewhere else so this madness can stop. THank you.

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Old
02-21-2013, 01:17 AM
  #221
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I didn't know players were considered as "stars" just after a career high 55 points playing in their 3rd season.
How many 20 year old players score 55 points and end up 14th in Selke voting? Forget the 20 year old part, how many 3rd year players put up 55 points and are top 15 in Selke voting?

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02-21-2013, 01:30 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I am a LEafs fan that wants nothign to do with ROR.

Some of the rediculous offers I have seen for him make me spill my beer.

Some of the prices the AVs want are equally rediculous.

ROR is a good defensive player. He happened, due to necessity, to play top line minutes last season. HE had a carreer year. Good for him.

However, he has only had the one good year. HE has never even in junior hit 20goals in a season, and even in Junior he never posted a PPG season.

Granted he is better than Bozak, and might become more offensive than GRabo, but the difference between them, the actual UPGRADE for the Leafs is not worht anything near Gardiner, or Frattin, or Kadri, or Rielly or whaever top young player that seems to be the starting point.

I don't see ROR as a bonafide #1C. That is what the LEafs need.
So if you want to talk about Duchene the cupboards are open and there is a lot available. But for ROR, it just isn't happening.

Please sign him or Trade him somewhere else so this madness can stop. THank you.
You aren't EVER getting Duchene, sorry to burst your bubble.

And who are the AVs? The Audio/Videos? You don't mean the Avs do you?

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02-21-2013, 01:31 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
If you think Matt is worth more than all the assets in our franchise you my friend are the one with the issues.

People who make these statements usually don't think when they make them. Considering the value star players have been traded for in the past to say we could not meet the value of any player on your team is laughable. Is he worth more than Nash ? Kovalchuck ? Thorton ? Because the current Leaf franchise could mach the value of those trades easily.
Nash wanted to be traded. The management that traded Kovalchuk no longer has a franchise. The GM that traded Thornton got fired 6 months later. Make sure you bring all these examples up when you try to convince Sherman that Duchene is worth the equivalent of Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. (Kadri, Bozak and a 2nd?)

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02-21-2013, 01:37 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
So if you want to talk about Duchene the cupboards are open and there is a lot available. But for ROR, it just isn't happening.
For the low, low price of Gardiner, Reilly, Kessel, Lupul and your next 15 1st round picks, Duchene could possibly end up a Leaf.

Anything less and we'll keep Duchene, thank you very much.

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02-21-2013, 01:49 AM
  #225
Sterling31
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
For the low, low price of Gardiner, Reilly, Kessel, Lupul and your next 15 1st round picks, Duchene could possibly end up a Leaf.

Anything less and we'll keep Duchene, thank you very much.
Are you crazy? All those players suck.

I don't want my team full of AHLers and soft players.

geta grip.

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