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Brandon Prust to Montreal [4 years, $10M]

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:52 PM
  #826
Bullsmith
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Post #7.

What I didn't consider when we signed Prust was that he'd be able to ride shotgun for key rookies like he has for the Gally twins. Whatever the future holds, I have been really impressed with how Prust has been able to contribute by keeping up with the play and creating space (or havoc) for Galch in particular. It's a lot to ask of a player to be a real protector and actually play 11 minutes of 3rd line duty a night. (OT- They tried to have Orr do it for Kadri tonight in Tampa. Didn't work out so well. 11 minutes is ridiculous for a player like that, and perfect for Gally right now.)

Love him love him love him. If you're gonna overpay, overpay for a guy like this.

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02-19-2013, 10:09 PM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
The lesson is - Brandon Prust is playing very well now. Once he starts playing like Brandon Prust again (and he most certainly will) this deal will look bad. And I really like Prust - always wanted the Flyers to grab him from Calgary. He's a 1.5 million dollar player and that's generous. But he got 2.5 and good for him - solid guy, not dirty, backs up his teammates and chips in here and there.
He's not skilled enough to be an offensive regular, but he has the "sense" to put himself into excellent position to get feeds from Galchenyuk, an abilitysomething most typical 4th liners cannot claim to have.

He's one of our more defensively sound forwards. Just when the opponent seems to be loading up for an extended time in our zone, the puck winds up on Prust's stick and it soon exists the zone.

He's also an agitator. He knows how to draw penalties and get under people's skin without costing his team.

He can kill penalties.

He's a willing fighter who can hold his own.

We've had players in Montreal that were one of these things, but not everything in one package. Tom Pyatt could kill penalties and be defensively responsible, but he was small. Maxim Lapierre could agitate, kill penalties, and win faceoffs, but he didn't fight much here and he's not as good as Prust defensively or offensively.

We tried Travis Moen with skill players in the past to add "size" to a scoring line; ok for defense, didn't get any offense. Prust has better hands than Moen, for sure, and Moen is a defensively capable forward in his own right.
And he's still cheaper than Joel Ward.

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02-20-2013, 07:33 AM
  #828
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Meh. He was good in the first couple of games this season, and good against the Rangers (all of which is to be expected). Other than that, he has played like a 1mil/1yr type.

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02-20-2013, 07:37 AM
  #829
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Lucky for us his GF controlled his destination last summer

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02-20-2013, 08:25 AM
  #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
The lesson is - Brandon Prust is playing very well now. Once he starts playing like Brandon Prust again (and he most certainly will) this deal will look bad. And I really like Prust - always wanted the Flyers to grab him from Calgary. He's a 1.5 million dollar player and that's generous. But he got 2.5 and good for him - solid guy, not dirty, backs up his teammates and chips in here and there.
It's par for the course though. You overpay for UFA's usually(except for reclamation projects) but if you are adding an element you need then it's worth it. Prust basically costs us 4 mil over 4 years to bring him in and help change the culture of the team on and off the ice.

Developing guys like Subban Diaz Emelin Markov Price Pacioretty White DD Galchenyuk Gallagher etc allows us to overpay for a player elswhere to fill a need as all those guys come at a reduced cap hit.

Same thing happened with Cole. If he was a Hab we would ahve probably been able to sign him for 3 years at 4 mil/year. We had to go to 4 years at 4.5 to bring him here as a UFA. Last year he produced like a 5.5-6 mil player so we actually came out well ahead. If he goes back to a 4 mil player people should still be ok(15-15-30 over 48 games). Right now he is on pace for 6-6-12 though.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:27 AM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Meh. He was good in the first couple of games this season, and good against the Rangers (all of which is to be expected). Other than that, he has played like a 1mil/1yr type.
He brings more to the table than that...he pay be a 1 mil/year guy if he was on an ELC, not as an established NHLer.

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02-20-2013, 08:32 AM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
The lesson is - Brandon Prust is playing very well now. Once he starts playing like Brandon Prust again (and he most certainly will) this deal will look bad. And I really like Prust - always wanted the Flyers to grab him from Calgary. He's a 1.5 million dollar player and that's generous. But he got 2.5 and good for him - solid guy, not dirty, backs up his teammates and chips in here and there.
You're missing the point of my post...

My point is to say that the term 'overpaid' is a worthless term that fans love to toss around as though it means anything.

Agreed that Prust is 'overpaid', but as long as he contributes in his own way and continues to play well, no one will care that he's overpaid.

As soon as he struggles, that's when that term, 'overpaid', will get tossed around again.

So really...what does it matter if players are overpaid? It doesn't mean a damn thing

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02-20-2013, 08:39 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Meh. He was good in the first couple of games this season, and good against the Rangers (all of which is to be expected). Other than that, he has played like a 1mil/1yr type.
Uh?

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02-20-2013, 08:46 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Lucky for us his GF controlled his destination last summer
That and the money. Prust went back to the Rangers to see if they'd match if I'm not mistake.

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02-20-2013, 08:46 PM
  #835
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So happy we locked him up for 4 years. Every game he is one of our hardest working players

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:02 PM
  #836
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I agree Prust is overpaid by 1 million, compated to if we had developed him ourselves, correctly assessed his value and signed him fairly long term before he got to UFA.

But I would argue that overpaying a UFA by 1 million dollars is not that big a deal, especially for a 15th place team with more money than talent. The point is what kind of guy did they get, and on that front I think they added a clear plus to the team. Prust is a versatile player who contribute from the fourth line or step up and play a role on a third line (like protecting valuable rookies. And how much are they worth?)

As a percentage of his earnings, Prust is massively overpaid. As a percentage of the cap hit, even next year and beyond, Prust's contract is actually not bad value. He adds a surprising amount to the team, even if his points tail off.

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02-20-2013, 10:04 PM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Meh. He was good in the first couple of games this season, and good against the Rangers (all of which is to be expected). Other than that, he has played like a 1mil/1yr type.
Someone has not watched the games.

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02-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #838
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Someone has not watched the games.
If you read the history, especially in the heavyweight thread, you'll notice that someone doesn't like the rough stuff.

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02-21-2013, 04:58 AM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Meh. He was good in the first couple of games this season, and good against the Rangers (all of which is to be expected). Other than that, he has played like a 1mil/1yr type.
I don't agree at all, I think he's worth every penny going forward already contributing every game if its helping the pk,getting the team motivated or even helping galchenyuk and Gallagher in they're developing process , prust is an essential part of the team this year and I'm sure if he played for us last year it would have helped our team tremendously

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:48 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If you read the history, especially in the heavyweight thread, you'll notice that someone doesn't like the rough stuff.
I think you're confusing staged fights with rough stuff.

I'm fan of plenty of depth forwards who play a physical game. I like Prust's game fine too for what it is, just not at the commitment the Habs have made to him. He`s not significantly better than White is now, or than Begin or Kostopoulos were when they were here.


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02-21-2013, 07:47 AM
  #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think you're confusing staged fights with rough stuff.

I'm fan of plenty of depth forwards who play a physical game. I like Prust's game fine too for what it is, just not at the commitment the Habs have made to him. He`s not significantly better than White is now, or than Begin or Kostopoulos were when they were here.
I guess it's a matter of opinion...but I find he's significantly better than all those players mentioned.

Much better pucks skills then those 3 players (especially Begin who could of carved out the same career he has even without playing with a hockey stick), and I find him extremely reliable in his own end. When he gets the puck in his own zone, the puck gets out.

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02-21-2013, 08:02 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I guess it's a matter of opinion...but I find he's significantly better than all those players mentioned.
No it's not a matter of opinion, he's just way wrong. Prust is better than Begin or Kostopoulos in every aspect of the game, period.

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02-21-2013, 08:23 AM
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I guess it's a matter of opinion...but I find he's significantly better than all those players mentioned.

Much better pucks skills then those 3 players (especially Begin who could of carved out the same career he has even without playing with a hockey stick), and I find him extremely reliable in his own end. When he gets the puck in his own zone, the puck gets out.
Im pretty sure Bégin played on the first line for a good portion of the year so he must have been pretty skilled.
Also, our coach wanted an entire team of Kostopoulous's so he must have been pretty damn good.



Honestly, Prust has been awesome. He's so strong on the forecheck and in the corners. His hockey sense is actually quite high for a grinder too.

It's too bad he doesn't have a tad more finish though. He's often in the right spots to score and Chucky manages to find him, but he just can't seem to bury them.

That's fine for me though - he's not paid to score goals. He'd be on pace for 25 points in a full season so I'm satisfied with that.

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02-21-2013, 08:35 AM
  #844
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I like the signing. This is one where I can agree he's a bit overpaid, but at the same time he has been a fantastic fit. Not only has he fit in as a "baby sitter" for the kids, but has also been an effective player on the ice. In addition, he seems like a great leader and you can tell he has really helped not only the kids but Subban in being integrated in the lineup.

Love the guy. The perfect fourth liner.

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02-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
Im pretty sure Bégin played on the first line for a good portion of the year so he must have been pretty skilled.
Also, our coach wanted an entire team of Kostopoulous's so he must have been pretty damn good.



Honestly, Prust has been awesome. He's so strong on the forecheck and in the corners. His hockey sense is actually quite high for a grinder too.

It's too bad he doesn't have a tad more finish though. He's often in the right spots to score and Chucky manages to find him, but he just can't seem to bury them.

That's fine for me though - he's not paid to score goals. He'd be on pace for 25 points in a full season so I'm satisfied with that.
He has better puck skills then I imagined, and he's an excellent forechecker and very intelligent defensively.

But for sure, finishing is not his forte...but I don't think anyone expected that

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02-21-2013, 09:02 AM
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think you're confusing staged fights with rough stuff.

I'm fan of plenty of depth forwards who play a physical game. I like Prust's game fine too for what it is, just not at the commitment the Habs have made to him. He`s not significantly better than White is now, or than Begin or Kostopoulos were when they were here.
Where Prust is most similar to White, is that they aren't top end fighters. In everything else, Ryan White is worse than Prust.

White is not as good as Prust defensively or on the penalty kill. Nor does White put himself in as good position to score as Prust does, although Prust's finish is poor. White is a worse skater. White is also not shrewd as Prust. White has a habit of just tossing the gloves and going, whereas Prust seeks ways to draw penalties, such as walking into Enstrom's high stick or Neil's instigator.

Also, if you haven't noticed that cap is rather inflated these days compared to 2006. 1 million dollar players are mostly guys who have less dimensions (or none) or are guys on entry level contracts.

http://capgeek.com/comparables/?player=343

Well, is performance per dollars is the stat we're worried about, an excellent performance can bump that right on up.

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02-21-2013, 09:05 AM
  #847
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Just gonna throw this out there that one could argue getting paid more than a doctor who saves lives, or a president/prime minister running an entire country is overpaid. So if you wanna talk about athletes getting overpaid then 99% of NHL athletes are overpaid

tl:dr version: Prust's salary is fine for all the things he brings to the team that we haven't had in a long time. Points/goals aren't everything unless you are expected to produce though (Hi Scott Gomez!)

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02-21-2013, 09:48 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Where Prust is most similar to White, is that they aren't top end fighters. In everything else, Ryan White is worse than Prust.

White is not as good as Prust defensively or on the penalty kill. Nor does White put himself in as good position to score as Prust does, although Prust's finish is poor. White is a worse skater. White is also not shrewd as Prust. White has a habit of just tossing the gloves and going, whereas Prust seeks ways to draw penalties, such as walking into Enstrom's high stick or Neil's instigator.

Also, if you haven't noticed that cap is rather inflated these days compared to 2006. 1 million dollar players are mostly guys who have less dimensions (or none) or are guys on entry level contracts.

http://capgeek.com/comparables/?player=343

Well, is performance per dollars is the stat we're worried about, an excellent performance can bump that right on up.
A couple of points about White:

While White has taken too many penalties this season, this is a new problem over a small sample size. Last season, he drew more penalties than he took. Some of the penalties he has taken this season are also magnified because the opposition scored on the ensuing PP - but that's something that can't be expected to happen more than about 20% of the time, and it's not something that White can control.

I would argue that White's defensive instincts are at least at Prust's level. White also brings more verstility, as he has now proven himslef a capable center who can win faceoffs.

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02-21-2013, 10:31 AM
  #849
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Originally Posted by donghabs98 View Post
So happy we locked him up for 4 years. Every game he is one of our hardest working players
Exactly!! He really fills a need, a huge need for us, and is leading by example!! The Rangers miss him, but most didn't want to pay him the 2.5M and I am glad MB stepped up!! He is expensive, but we needed this type of player...he is our Chris Neil type of player....

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02-21-2013, 10:48 AM
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
A couple of points about White:

While White has taken too many penalties this season, this is a new problem over a small sample size. Last season, he drew more penalties than he took. Some of the penalties he has taken this season are also magnified because the opposition scored on the ensuing PP - but that's something that can't be expected to happen more than about 20% of the time, and it's not something that White can control.

I would argue that White's defensive instincts are at least at Prust's level. White also brings more verstility, as he has now proven himslef a capable center who can win faceoffs.
Well, I see things differently then. I can recall Prust killing an opponent's shift in our zone by winning a puck battle or stealing a puck in the defensive zone and either clearing it out himself or making a pass to someone to take it out of the zone. Granted, White hasn't seen much action, but he just doesn't appear to these little things as well as Prust.

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