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Old
02-20-2013, 03:46 PM
  #51
vespa99
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
ok, so basically you're saying we should take into account what a few players have done in 15 games and forget what others have done for years - because god knows they might never find that form ever again.
No basically I am saying Ovy is no where near as good as he was and I dont want to pay 9mil a year for a player of his calibre. What he did 3 or 4 years ago does not change what he does now. At least you can look at young players potential to progress.

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Old
02-20-2013, 03:50 PM
  #52
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it's not just Ovechkin who's been subpar for the Caps. the team is at their third coach in 2 years and they've only started to look better these last few games.

you can point out Ovy's cap hit all you want - the guy remains a playoff warrior. to even consider a bunch of Oilers who have yet to take sniff of that action and say they're in the same neighborhood is really pushing it.
Playoff warrior is a strong word for a guy who hasn't been out of the second round. Granted he does have nice playoff numbers. Comparing him to the Oilers big four is a crapshoot and it all depends what Ovechkin we're talking about. If it's the one from the past year and a half to two years I'd be inclined to prefer the Oilers 4 slightly. If it's the Ovechkin of 2005-2010 it's an easy call to go with OV. As it stands I'd trade any of the Oilers 4 with the possible exception of RNH for Ovechkin and that's just because without RNH the Oil would be a disaster up the middle. But if Ovechkin continues to struggle, and by struggle I mean hover around the 65-70 point mark, that's a poor investment of pretty much a sixth of the team cap space.

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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
And Alzner and Carlson are established first defensive pairing. Comparing age is worthless because stats show that most NHL scorers peak out before 28. I think Neil Greenberg did that calculating Nash's value.
Are they established first defensive pairing guys? I guess it depends how you define top pairing - they're in the top 60 in the league but they're not elite by any stretch either. Yakupov has the least value of the big four and he's the reigning first overall pick that's done nothing but impress since being taken first. I don't think Alzner/Carlson, good as they may be, are worth a first overall pick. And if goal scorers peak out before 28 wouldn't that be awful news for the guy quoted above's support of Ovechkin?

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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
What Oiler fans show here is called "What have you done for me lately" mentality. Typical for a fanbase of a team whose stars are on the rise. As soon as they will normalize, their production will come to normal, statistically average result of their talents, you'll start remembering past performances. Been there, done that.
What's normal for Ovechkin though? The Hart trophy Ovechkin or the 65 point scorer eating 10 mill of cap space?

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02-20-2013, 04:05 PM
  #53
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No point in even posting trades involving Eberle, you'd be better off posting ones involving Hall. Even then, this is pure opinion and speculation and no Oiler fan will consider saying yes to someone touching one of the golden children unless they are getting a perennial 100 point scorer.

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02-20-2013, 04:11 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the suggestion that ovechkin doesnt elevate for the playoffs is either stupidity or ignorance. he has 30goals and 59pts in 51 playoff games.

eberle has 0goals and 0pts in 0 playoff games. how you could have the first clue that he elevates his game is pure speculation. you honestly think that if chara was checking eberle for 7 straight games that eberle would out perform ovechkin?

what are you smoking?
Ovi also had 60+ goals one season, oh i forgot we are talking about the present.

Last year he was NOT very good in the playoffs, and i would argue his mediocre play continued from the regular season into the playoffs. Was he not playing on the 3rd line at one point?

His contract his horrible and with the cap going down, he has even less value. Im not going to suggest that Eberle will ever be a 60+ goal guy, not even close. But i dont think Ovi ever gets there again either.

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02-20-2013, 04:53 PM
  #55
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Carlson and maybe some small + for Eberle or Hall

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02-20-2013, 05:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Playoff warrior is a strong word for a guy who hasn't been out of the second round. Granted he does have nice playoff numbers. Comparing him to the Oilers big four is a crapshoot and it all depends what Ovechkin we're talking about. If it's the one from the past year and a half to two years I'd be inclined to prefer the Oilers 4 slightly. If it's the Ovechkin of 2005-2010 it's an easy call to go with OV. As it stands I'd trade any of the Oilers 4 with the possible exception of RNH for Ovechkin and that's just because without RNH the Oil would be a disaster up the middle. But if Ovechkin continues to struggle, and by struggle I mean hover around the 65-70 point mark, that's a poor investment of pretty much a sixth of the team cap space.
it's a team game, no? to put this 'big 4' up on a pedestal as if they've achieved so much is a joke - they've yet to achieve anything as a 'team.'

yes, we get it. Ovy has a huge cap hit. he got paid what he was worth. it's not like he got paid and slowed down. that came later.

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02-20-2013, 05:23 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by dahlenrules View Post
Carlson and maybe some small + for Eberle or Hall
No thanks from an Oilers fan, especially for Eberle.

This could just be my opinion, but if you want one of Edmonton's young stars, your best bet would be to try for Yakupov. As far as I'm concerned, Nuge, Hall and Eberle are all almost untouchable. Yakupov I think could be available for a top pairing young D or slightly less talented young power forward.

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Old
02-20-2013, 06:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
What's normal for Ovechkin though? The Hart trophy Ovechkin or the 65 point scorer eating 10 mill of cap space?
We were talking about how past performance affect trade value, weren't we? What you said is irrelevant. That doesn't make any sense and is in no way linked to what I was talking about. I just said that "What have you done for me lately" must go.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:18 PM
  #59
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Horrible for the Caps....pass.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:33 PM
  #60
Lessy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
it's a team game, no? to put this 'big 4' up on a pedestal as if they've achieved so much is a joke - they've yet to achieve anything as a 'team.'

yes, we get it. Ovy has a huge cap hit. he got paid what he was worth. it's not like he got paid and slowed down. that came later.
Sure it's a team game but Tambellini has assembled pretty much nothing around them. It's not their fault they haven't achieved anything as a 'team' yet.

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by T_Cage View Post
Eberle

For

Jesus
1st round pick

Is the only trade Edmonton fans would accept for Eberle. Don't even bother with him
I don't see how a carpenter helps us now. Once the new arena gets underway, sure, but I'm tired of trading for futures.

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02-20-2013, 10:01 PM
  #62
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So bad for the caps.

Eberle is a nice player but very over rated.

As for Ovechkin. Put the skate on the other foot.

Imagine the oilers signing Gretzky in this day and age coming off an elc. That is sort of what Ovechkin is to the fans of the capitals. The caps have done an awful job building around their star players hince them all declining in production.

Its been said...yea hes over paid. However which one of those big four came in and threw down 100+ pts and won a few mvp awards?

Really he had plenty of goals last year his assists were down and he gets suspended anytime he hits anyone.

Boy this playing hockey thing comes so easy to some of you lol.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:06 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilCanada92 View Post
If Eberle is going, it's Carlson or Alzner coming back instead of Green.
No doubt about that.

Green has been off injured for a few years now and his offence has been very inconsistent since his injury woes began.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:16 PM
  #64
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Caps could've had Eberle for free... instead took AnGus with the pick before him. AnGus quit hockey a year later.

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02-20-2013, 10:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Sure it's a team game but Tambellini has assembled pretty much nothing around them. It's not their fault they haven't achieved anything as a 'team' yet.
and i don't expect Tambellini to surround those players with depth to help them compete any time soon. he seems content in racking up picks and 'waiting it out.'

by the time that the Oilers do actually become competitive - they'll most likely have to overpay their elite players or watch them leave to other teams from being sick of losing for so many years.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:19 PM
  #66
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Lol edmonton says hell no

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
and i don't expect Tambellini to surround those players with depth to help them compete any time soon. he seems content in racking up picks and 'waiting it out.'

by the time that the Oilers do actually become competitive - they'll most likely have to overpay their elite players or watch them leave to other teams from being sick of losing for so many years.
Must have missed the Fistric trade. You know, exactly opposite of what you're saying about waiting it out and racking up picks, considering he traded a pick away for him.
Would like to borrow your crystal ball. $6 mil is considered an overpay for an elite player?

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02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #68
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Must have missed the Fistric trade. You know, exactly opposite of what you're saying about waiting it out and racking up picks, considering he traded a pick away for him.
Would like to borrow your crystal ball. $6 mil is considered an overpay for an elite player?
oh, the Fistric trade. that'll make the Oil competitive! well, that just completely debunked my whole theory.

and yes, $6M is an overpayment for a player who hasn't posted elite numbers yet. they're getting paid based on potential.

are the Oilers going to overpay Gagner for what might be his best year after a few ok ones?

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02-20-2013, 10:53 PM
  #69
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oh, the Fistric trade. that'll make the Oil competitive! well, that just completely debunked my whole theory.

and yes, $6M is an overpayment for a player who hasn't posted elite numbers yet. they're getting paid based on potential.

are the Oilers going to overpay Gagner for what might be his best year after a few ok ones?
You said he isn't going to surround them with depth and just wants to rack up picks. He traded a pick for depth. Didn't say Fistric was going to make them competitive. Just that it did debunk your only racking up picks theory. Traded for depth using a pick to do it, complete opposite of what you said he was content doing.
Hall, 27 goals in 63 games last year, which was an improvement over his very good rookie year, and over ppg this year. His boxcars get better year over year. Those are just the boxcars, not even including advanced stats that show he is taking on the other teams best players and out shooting/out chancing and outplaying them, before he's even turned 21, and still on his elc, not even making $6 mil/year yet. Eberle, still on his elc and had just put up 76 in 78 games. How many players that out scored him made less than $6 mil?
Who knows what's going to happen with Gagner, besides you and your crystal ball I guess.

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02-20-2013, 11:03 PM
  #70
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Caps could've had Eberle for free... instead took AnGus with the pick before him. AnGus quit hockey a year later.
Ouch. Thats going to leave a mark

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02-20-2013, 11:14 PM
  #71
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I'd trade Eberle for a good defensemen.

That defensemen is definitely not Mike Green though. Too injury prone and makes too much money.

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02-20-2013, 11:17 PM
  #72
sansabri
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Originally Posted by teamblue View Post
You said he isn't going to surround them with depth and just wants to rack up picks. He traded a pick for depth. Didn't say Fistric was going to make them competitive. Just that it did debunk your only racking up picks theory. Traded for depth using a pick to do it, complete opposite of what you said he was content doing.
Hall, 27 goals in 63 games last year, which was an improvement over his very good rookie year, and over ppg this year. His boxcars get better year over year. Those are just the boxcars, not even including advanced stats that show he is taking on the other teams best players and out shooting/out chancing and outplaying them, before he's even turned 21, and still on his elc, not even making $6 mil/year yet. Eberle, still on his elc and had just put up 76 in 78 games. How many players that out scored him made less than $6 mil?
Who knows what's going to happen with Gagner, besides you and your crystal ball I guess.
and i stand by my comment. if you think trading a 3rd pick for a depth defenseman is suddenly stepping away from his strategy to rack up picks and sit it out - go right ahead.

yes, i know Hall is good. but he's not elite yet. he's getting paid based on potential. same with Eberle.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:47 PM
  #73
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Ovi also had 60+ goals one season, oh i forgot we are talking about the present.

Last year he was NOT very good in the playoffs, and i would argue his mediocre play continued from the regular season into the playoffs. Was he not playing on the 3rd line at one point?

His contract his horrible and with the cap going down, he has even less value. Im not going to suggest that Eberle will ever be a 60+ goal guy, not even close. But i dont think Ovi ever gets there again either.
Uh yeah, he was very good.

Put on a throwaway kamikaze line with two grinders in an extremely trapping system and still lead the team in points while being by far the most physical player.

Eberle has a lot to prove to even have any claim to be as good in the playoffs as last season's Ovechkin.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #74
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and i stand by my comment. if you think trading a 3rd pick for a depth defenseman is suddenly stepping away from his strategy to rack up picks and sit it out - go right ahead.

yes, i know Hall is good. but he's not elite yet. he's getting paid based on potential. same with Eberle.
The Fistric trade isn't the reason showing he isn't just trying to rack up the picks. It was just one thing that was direct opposite of what you claimed. Signing JShultz, KFoster, Belanger, Eager, Hordichuk, and Barker. Getting Sutton, actually doing the trade for Smyth etc would seem to be opposite of sitting out. Not every move has worked out, but he hasn't been sitting out and just waiting for picks.
How many players signing their second contracts aren't getting paid for their potential? Why is it wrong for the Oilers to do it?

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:26 AM
  #75
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All the talk about Greens injuries....

RNH has had shoulder issues.

Hall has had various setbacks as well. Sure one freak injury but so has Green.

The thing is that the players for the caps have at least shown the ability to compete for harts,norris and Richard trophys. I for one believe they have a better chance of getting back to that level rather than the big four prospects.

Green at one point had 31 goals and 78pts. Where does that rank among Edmonton forwards even?

I know fans hope a number one overall means an Ovie,Crosby or Stamkos...most of the time however they dont reach that level.

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