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Rumor and Proposal Thread Vol. 4: Tambo: Here's my number, call me maybe?

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #76
Vagabond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Hype? You have to give to get. How many 6'4, physical centers exist in the league right now? Okay now how many of them are the go to guy on a 5 on 3 penalty kill and an option on the power play. Not many? How many of them are 20 years old?

There's a reason this guy was projected to go first overall in the 2011 draft.
Gagner has been put out there killing 5 on 3's. He's been a good pker, especially this season. His rookie season points wise will probably oust Couturier's for a couple years. Yes, he has size. Yes he has potential. But to say he's worth Yako straight up is hilarious. Yako only played 15 games and as an 18 year old, he's out performing him offensively. Couturier is also not 6'4", he's 6'3"!

Gagner + prospect and a second is legit. Over hyping a player based on potential is being stubborn.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
Gagner has been put out there killing 5 on 3's. He's been a good pker, especially this season. His rookie season points wise will probably oust Couturier's for a couple years. Yes, he has size. Yes he has potential. But to say he's worth Yako straight up is hilarious. Yako only played 15 games and as an 18 year old, he's out performing him offensively. Couturier is also not 6'4", he's 6'3"!

Gagner + prospect and a second is legit. Over hyping a player based on potential is being stubborn.
We're oilers fans, our entire opinion of our core players is basically this

One guy in the thread said he would only trade Eberle for three players in the NHL.

Isn't everything we think of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Schultz and Yak purely based on hype?

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #78
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Trading one of the young forwards

I know the title isn't encouraging, but hear me out.

This is not an overreaction to the loss, this is simply a look towards the future. Our top 6 right now consists of Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Yak, Gagner Hemsky. I think it's clear that we have some gaping holes on the team (defense, bottom 6, toughness in the top 6, etc.)

Now, I think if we truly want to get better, we have to trade away one of the young guys. I know we all fall in love with them and what not, but try to look at this objectively. This is Hall's team, so he's not going anywhere. Nuge is our number one centre, so he stays.

That leaves Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky, Yakupov.

You don't trade Gagner unless you get a centre back, we're already dreadfully terrible down the middle.

I'm reluctant to trade Hemsky for two reasons. Firstly, Hemsky is severely underrated around the league, so the value he provides to this team is greater than anything we could get back for him. Any team would be lucky if their first round pick (other than a first overall) turned out as good as Hemsky.

Secondly, there seems to be this notion with management that you draft a bunch of young players, and somehow they ALL learn how to play the game at a pro level together, and win the cup. How are these guys supposed to learn good habits and bad habits? What it takes to succeed in the NHL? Hemsky is the only player in our top 6 over the age of 23, and I think people tend to forget that. He still has at least 6-8 good years left in him. I think we need to keep him around to balance our offense and be a productive veteran, something this team is sorely lacking.

That leaves Eberle and Yak. And as much as it pains me to say it, I think Yak will have to go to improve our team. I think he has potential higher than Hall and Eberle, but he probably would have the most value. If we want to fill the gaps in our team, some tough decisions have to be made.

If there is a trade for a #1 dman, or a physical top 6 forward, we'd have to jump over that. And I think when it's all said and done, we'll have to trade either Eberle or Yakupov to improve the team.

Hemsky and Gagner simply won't get us enough on the open market to improve the team, and the sooner people realize that, the better.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:01 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
We're oilers fans, our entire opinion of our core players is basically this

One guy in the thread said he would only trade Eberle for three players in the NHL.

Isn't everything we think of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Schultz and Yak purely based on hype?
Some of it yes. The difference being tho; Hall, Ebs, RNH have proven to at least score 50+ pts already. RNH did just that in his rookie year missing many games. Hall and Ebs eclipsed that during their sophomore seasons. Couturier.. even when you pro-rate this season might score 35 points. Yakupov is just shy of 50. Yes Couturier has a few more intangibles than some of the fab 5 in Oil silks but when you factor evrying else in.. how is his worth a straight up Ebs or a Yako?

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02-20-2013, 11:07 PM
  #80
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Agreed. We need more grit in the top 6, and badly need to improve the blue line. How management accomplishes this will ultimately determine this teams fate. If we can get a solid D to sign in the offseason, I can see them moving Hemsky and accepting a low return.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #81
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You have to give to get. I'm fine moving anyone as long as quality is coming back.

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02-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #82
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Not sure why a solution is needed right now. The Oilers have 8+ years to build around the core.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jebs View Post
Not sure why a solution is needed right now. The Oilers have 8+ years to build around the core.
Agreed. Just because people thought we were going to make the playoffs this year doesn't mean we have to make knee jerk reactions when it doesn't happens. You don't trade part of your core to fill a hole right now that might not be there in a few years.
Also, why not trade Hemsky instead of yakupov? Hemsky will not be part of the long term future of the Oilers the same way Yakupov will. Or you can trade the abundance of prospects we have to try and get bigger, but you don't trade a guy who will be a superstar and the potential to be the best out of the 4.
Want better D-men? WE have some who will be NHL ready in a few years. Want to be bigger? Wait until Harti/PRV become serviceable NHL players, or sign/trade someone from the prospect pool. Want better veterans? sign better players in the Offseason, and trade one of our many grade A prospects. But you don't need to trade your core to do that.


Last edited by vickpeterson: 02-20-2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason: accidently pressed enter without finishing the post
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Old
02-20-2013, 11:19 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vickpeterson View Post
Agreed. Just because people thought we were going to make the playoffs this year doesn't mean we have to make knee jerk reactions when it happens. You don't trade part of your core to fill a hole right now that might not be there in a few years.
Yup, I guess gaping holes fill themselves magically. Or 'drafting first overall' as Tambellini likes to call it.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
Yup, I guess gaping holes fill themselves magically. Or 'drafting first overall' as Tambellini likes to call it.
You don't need to trade your core to do it though. Trade one of our many prospects that we have. Trade Hemsky,who probably isn't part of our long term plan. But not a 19 year old who is part of our future.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:29 PM
  #86
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I agree with what you wrote but I think that Oilers management will exhaust and explore every other possibility and trade before touching the big four. Gagner, Hemsky, Paajarvi, anybody and everybody else will go to plug the holes on this team before the young forwards are touched. I suspect that many such trades will be lateral moves at best but nevertheless we are looking at years before every such possibility is completely explored.

Plus as others have pointed out I don't think management is in a hurry to do anything. Fans are getting annoyed but I still think Tambo/Lowe are analyzing the issues this team has and are content to just take things slowly and are hoping that things just click and work themselves out.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:31 PM
  #87
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Trading Yak for a physical top 6 forward would be madness. He's a #1 overall pick!

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:33 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Trading Yak for a physical top 6 forward would be madness. He's a #1 overall pick!
And as he gets stronger and bigger he will/should be called physical in his own right

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:37 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
And as he gets stronger and bigger he will/should be called physical in his own right
Him and Hall are our most physical/strongest top forwards. You dont trade the strongest one to get bigger.... As they grow, they will gain more "man strength" and things will get better. Let's not overreact here.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:43 PM
  #90
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Hemsky has 6 - 8 years? Unlikely. He doesn't have the hockey sense or dedication to still be an impact player past 35, his susceptibility to injury is only going to increase as he goes over the age of 30, and he doesn't have one iota of leadership or mentorship in his makeup(unless complaining about being turned into a checker when asked to play defense is the type of mentorship you want for the young players).

The Oilers have holes, they have an abundance of wingers, you move the one that has the least value to the team going forward to fill those holes - that's Hemsky who lacks dimension and size to his game.

Trading any of the big 5(Yak, Hall, Ebs, RNH, J.Shultz) is way premature at this point, but if the team does move down that path it'll be Yakupov, but there is zero reason to go down that road right now. If things like mentorship become an issue with such a young team(and it is with Hemsky on the roster), then it would be a better idea to go out a stop-gap solution(like Jagr) than Mike Milbury the young players.

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Old
02-20-2013, 11:44 PM
  #91
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if anyones going imo it should be eberle. out of all of the young guns he plays the softest game. and i really think yak will suprise people here and end up being the best out of the bunch.

but lets not trade any of them. .

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02-21-2013, 12:00 AM
  #92
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Give it time. Gagner and Hemsky won't bring us anything amazing in return and Eberle is slumping big time right now.

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Old
02-21-2013, 12:00 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
Yup, I guess gaping holes fill themselves magically. Or 'drafting first overall' as Tambellini likes to call it.
No but to act like Eberle, Hall, Nuge etc have even reached their primes yet is silly. We realistically shouldn't be worrying about deep playoff runs for another 2 years. This year we should be hoping to be competing for a spot, next year we should be in the playoffs, but probably not too much of a threat to go deep, after that we should be looking at expectations of the conference finals at the least.

If you think within those 2 years we can't either sign a free agent forward to add size, or trade one of our bazillion mid tier defensive prospects and some picks to get one then I guess I don't know what to say. There is no point to panic now and start getting rid of future elite players.

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Old
02-21-2013, 12:04 AM
  #94
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If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz

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02-21-2013, 12:11 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz

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02-21-2013, 12:13 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz
A 19 year old going on 20. Really?

That return isn't substantial if you ask me.

I have to stop reading this board, we get so bored on here that we start making proposals to move our kids when we definitely don't have to. It's killing me to see those proposals.

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02-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz
We've been searching for a centreman with elite talent ever since Doug Weight left. They're too hard to acquire. RNH isn't going anywhere.

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02-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #98
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Don't mind him. He was and clearly still is a heavy SC supporter with seemingly obvious spite now as he did then for RNH. The only upgrade slightly in that trade is Simmonds really. Couturier is a dependant #2 but thinking he's a number over Hopkins is bizarre on any roster. Furthermore, I'd love to know what Couturier has accomplished. Huberdeau on the other hand...

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02-21-2013, 12:26 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz
That return is pure garbage. Tambellini might as well leave a suicide note on his desk.

^I remember now

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Old
02-21-2013, 12:33 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
A 19 year old going on 20. Really?

That return isn't substantial if you ask me.
That's because proposing trade is a no win scenario.
I have to stop reading this board, we get so bored on here that we start making proposals to move our kids when we definitely don't have to. It's killing me to see those proposals.
If you don't think its substantial your probably underrating Simmonds. Our team would be a lot better off after this trade IMO.

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Simmonds-Couturier-Yakupov
PRV-Horcoff-Hemsky
Smyth-Belanger-Eager
Hartikainen

Schultz-Smid
Coburn-Petry
Whitney-Fistric
Potter

Still need a 3rd line centermen and a bottom d but that lineup looks a hell of a lot more balanced.

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