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Ducks sign Fasth to Two-Year Extension

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Old
02-20-2013, 09:54 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Again, you are shifting the goal posts. First it was from the future to the present. Now, it's from not spending to whether the payoff for that spending pays off. We didn't chase after the big ticket items, but seeing the latest CBA and the drama going on now in Vancouver, I'd say that it was pretty smart to steer clear of those guys, if we ever had a chance at landing them in the first place.
It's not shifting anything really. Present defines the future, and Bargain Bob ain't it, unless some 834074 stars get aligned just right.

I'm not saying he's bad GM, I'm saying he's not particularly good either.

It's all about expectations. Some are OK with being 8th seed and winning two instead of one game in round one, some want more.

I want more.

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02-20-2013, 10:13 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by goosemooseduck View Post
Yeah, but he also gave 3rd for guys like Artyukhin (Winchester for 3rd too IIRC), for whom he got 7th.

Under the line, he made more bad trades in last 4 years then good ones.

And none of those trades changed the team much (for better or worse).

What he did recently looks good so far, but we'll see full impact when the season is over.
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
To be fair the Souray many including myself didn't like the Souray contract but said itd look its best this short season. I know I said Souray would be a solid addition this year. However I don't expect him to keep this up for the duration.
I'm hoping for at least half.

Murray's moves are paying off this year but his entire tenure here has been mediocre IMO. He's made a lot of small bad choices. But what's been his biggest problem has been leaving significant holes in lineup come opening day.

His biggest mistake was not re-signing Beauchemin. I don't care what any of you say, I went over the numbers and roster in length that offseason, and no way do I think we couldn't afford to sign him for what he signed for in TO. Murray simply had too much faith in over the hill and unproven players. That mistake cost us a damn good prospect in Gardiner. He still gets blamed for Schultz. I give him somewhat of a break there but if someone deserves the crap it's Murray.

Smaller things that I can think of are:

Giving JDD and sexton 1 way deals.

Eminger, boynton, Hedican, etc... Bad small signings that hurt our lineup.

Gave Nokeleinen an extension after he proved nothing. Fortunately the Yotes were dumb enough to trade for him and bought him out.

Who'd we trade o'dell for again? Some defenseman on a 1 way deal we bought out?

There's a lot of others. Fortunately for him Cogliano looks like a good pickup after looking like a big ****ing mistake last year.

He's done some good too. However mediocre is how I'd describe his tenure here before this year.

Like the deal for Fasth though, even if it is a little early.

Ill wait and see what he does with Getz and Perry before I praise him for this year though.


You guys are talkign about minor trades and signings that EVERY GM makes and most of them dont work out. Do you really expect every move to work out? All you can ask out of a GM is to position the team to win and not hurt the future while doing so and vice versa.

Losing a 3rd rounder? Having a few bad 1 way contracts? The one bad move he has made that lost us anything important was the lose and regaining of Beauchemin.

Look at Vancouver. They trade a 1st for Ballard. He sucks. They trade Hodgson for Kassian. Hodgson is a top 6 center and Kassian has not done much outside of a like 5 game stretch getting carried by the Sedins. He trades for Booth who is an overpaid injury prone 40 point winger. They waive Grabner who goes onto being a 30 goal scorer the same year. Guess what, their GM won GM of the year award the same year some of those moves were made.

Look at Burke and the players he signed for big contracts that just sucked.

Every GM makes mistakes, it is all about how big those mistakes are and ill take 20 little mistakes like the ones you are talking about before ANY of those mistakes I listed in Vancouver's section.

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02-20-2013, 10:47 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
You guys are talkign about minor trades and signings that EVERY GM makes and most of them dont work out. Do you really expect every move to work out? All you can ask out of a GM is to position the team to win and not hurt the future while doing so and vice versa.

Losing a 3rd rounder? Having a few bad 1 way contracts? The one bad move he has made that lost us anything important was the lose and regaining of Beauchemin.

Look at Vancouver. They trade a 1st for Ballard. He sucks. They trade Hodgson for Kassian. Hodgson is a top 6 center and Kassian has not done much outside of a like 5 game stretch getting carried by the Sedins. He trades for Booth who is an overpaid injury prone 40 point winger. They waive Grabner who goes onto being a 30 goal scorer the same year. Guess what, their GM won GM of the year award the same year some of those moves were made.

Look at Burke and the players he signed for big contracts that just sucked.

Every GM makes mistakes, it is all about how big those mistakes are and ill take 20 little mistakes like the ones you are talking about before ANY of those mistakes I listed in Vancouver's section.
Great post. I think Murray has done an adequate job. Not great, not bad.

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02-20-2013, 10:51 PM
  #154
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No, it's not for two reasons:

1. It's less than 3 mil average for 2 years
2. Our team isn't up against the cap

And before you throw around the "internal budget" line, don't bother. That is a classic way owners dance around having to justify spending to fans. Unless you have some secret knowledge of that number, don't bother. The Angels had an internal budget during Torii Hunter's last year and look what happened. Same thing.
lol what. did you seriously justify your post by saying its not a risk because its only 2.9m AAV? that makes absolutely no sense.

and do you secretly know the samueli's or something. we've heard from BM that there is an internal amount of money that they'd like to spend. if you're wasting the 2.9M on a dude who may end up fizzling that's 2.9M that isn't going to be able to pay someone else's salary.
Even using your logic, if that's the way the owner justify's not spending to the fans, well guess what. that means that 2.9M DOES hurt us even more because if he isn't willing to spend, and he's already paying some dude 2.9M to be on the team, than that is 2.9M just gone and not going to better our team

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02-20-2013, 11:17 PM
  #155
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Ugh... I read this as we aren't keeping both Getz and Perry and this is just BM snap calling on Fasth now with Perry's money..... Still a good signing low risk very high reward... I don't know what's going on... The thought of losing perry and Teemu makes me feel sick...

They tell us there is a internal cap, and then they tell us signing the twins is priority number 1..... Well unless the internal cap is raised significantly, priority number 1 isnt possible. So 3 million for a backup goalie now? I'm being ••••••• trolled.

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02-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #156
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lol what. did you seriously justify your post by saying its not a risk because its only 2.9m AAV? that makes absolutely no sense.

and do you secretly know the samueli's or something. we've heard from BM that there is an internal amount of money that they'd like to spend. if you're wasting the 2.9M on a dude who may end up fizzling that's 2.9M that isn't going to be able to pay someone else's salary.
Even using your logic, if that's the way the owner justify's not spending to the fans, well guess what. that means that 2.9M DOES hurt us even more because if he isn't willing to spend, and he's already paying some dude 2.9M to be on the team, than that is 2.9M just gone and not going to better our team
We haven't heard that in a while. We don't know what the current situation is. It's not like Murray doesn't know what risks are entailed with a contract. These things are always carefully weighted and they involve the owners in the process. Most teams have cap experts that work specifically on those scenarios.

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02-21-2013, 12:10 AM
  #157
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I want to address these two statements. First of all, signings like the aforementioned SHOULD be done by a GM of a team who is on the budget. You need to sign guys like that for cheap and hope they outperform their contract. The reasoning is, you are not on the same playing field as teams who can spend to the cap. You need to take risks, and hope they work out, so that you can compete. Sure, sometimes they might not work out, but then you spent 1million (I did not research their salaries, but my memory states they were relatively low). If they do workout, however, then it is a signing that can push an average spending team to a higher position than they should achieve. As a budget team, you need to take risks if you do not have a perfect storm of prospects ready to play, as is seemingly the case now.

The second statement I agree with 100% and will definitely be a major point on how Murray's tenure is evaluated. For the record, I like that Murray is proactive and takes risks. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but I think it is an important trait for any GM of a budget franchise.
I know that budget team GMs have to take chances other don't but that offseason he ****ed up, badly.

Beauchemin told us he wanted to stay. When he signed in TO, he even said he preferred to stay in Anaheim at his press conference. When we traded back for him he said he never wanted to leave in the first place. Murray simply had too much in faith in an unproven player (Sbisa). He signed a way over the hill player in boynton to help in case Sbisa struggled. He brought in another player who's never proved much in Eminger. When defense completely sucked ass he brought in Hedican. I went over the numbers that season because I was beyond pissed that Murray would leave such a hole in the defense, and the difference in salary wasn't a factor. Murray simply didn't want Beach back, and IMO its because he had too much faith in unproven or old players.

Taking risks is fine but there's been several times during Murray's tenure where he's thought a player who was either very young or past their prime would be better then they were.

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02-21-2013, 12:11 AM
  #158
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So now that Hiller is healthy, how does Boudreau go about splitting time between him and Fasth? 50-50? Hiller 3 out of 4? Especially given the schedule coming up. We play 16 games in March. That's just ridiculous.

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02-21-2013, 12:16 AM
  #159
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I don't think you can go with who is hot with a schedule like that. You probably have to split it up so that you can rest both players as much as possible. The injury risk is just too high.

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02-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #160
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Wow you are really nitpicking
every gm has minor signings and minor trades that amount to nothing. i mean really you're complaining about Eric O'Dell?
We are discussing Murray. Pointing out some of his moves doesn't hurt anything. Some of his moves were minor, but some weren't. We can focus on the big ones if you want...

-let Beauch walk when we could have afforded him (don't even try to tell me we couldn't cause that's complete BS). This move cost us a fantastic prospect in Gardiner.

-signed Sutton to fill out our top 4, when he had Never shown he could hold that kind of role down in a season.

Those two are probably his biggest blunders IMO. They killed us those seasons.

He's had some good moves too. I don't deny that. My point is that there's no question that before this year his tenure here has been mediocre at best.

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02-21-2013, 12:20 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I don't think you can go with who is hot with a schedule like that. You probably have to split it up so that you can rest both players as much as possible. The injury risk is just too high.
ya. i'd imagine they're gonna split a lot. so many back to backs

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02-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #162
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well all i know is murray was idiot for giving souray that contract... oh wait...

My one criticism of Murray is the bargain basement signings. He struck gold w/ Beach but all those Eminger type deals held us back for a long time.

You have to admit he's done an amazing job this year. We have amazing depth at every position.
I don't understand why people are saying this about Souray. I was one of the most vocal about disliking the Souray contract, and I still don't like it. However I know that I ( and a lot of other ppl who didn't like the signing) thought he'd be good for us this year. He is an injury prone vet who had a great start last year before falling off. I thought he'd be a great player for us this year, and I believe I predicted we'd all be looking for ways to get rid of him come game 25 of next year. So saying to the people who disliked the Souray signed "look at him now" or something like that is stupid because most of us thought he'd be good this year.

After his tenure here we were due a really good year. Plus lets not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't even played 20 games yet.

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02-21-2013, 12:36 AM
  #163
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He's had some good moves too. I don't deny that. My point is that there's no question that before this year his tenure here has been mediocre at best.
There are 16 players on this roster that weren't there when he took over. That prospect pool isn't something he inherited, and it isn't something that every GM in this league can boast about. Those things didn't all happen over the summer.

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02-21-2013, 12:39 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
We are discussing Murray. Pointing out some of his moves doesn't hurt anything. Some of his moves were minor, but some weren't. We can focus on the big ones if you want...

-let Beauch walk when we could have afforded him (don't even try to tell me we couldn't cause that's complete BS). This move cost us a fantastic prospect in Gardiner.

-signed Sutton to fill out our top 4, when he had Never shown he could hold that kind of role down in a season.

Those two are probably his biggest blunders IMO. They killed us those seasons.

He's had some good moves too. I don't deny that. My point is that there's no question that before this year his tenure here has been mediocre at best.
I hate to break it to you but GMs are either mediocre or unemployed. Every GM makes bad moves, every GM makes good moves. My point is BM bad moves are small while his good moves have been large.

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02-21-2013, 12:59 AM
  #165
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I hate to break it to you but GMs are either mediocre or unemployed. Every GM makes bad moves, every GM makes good moves. My point is BM bad moves are small while his good moves have been large.
Completely disagree. His bad moves have been just as bad when you consider how it's impacted our season.

Letting Beauchemin walk and having to move a great prospect in Gardiner is not small at all.

Brining in sutton to be a top 4 defenseman and killing our season that year is not small.

His Whitney trade was ok. Whitney had a good year with Pronger. Then he sucked. He flipped him in a great move for Lubo.

He got solid value for Pronger. Which was a great move.

I think they are pretty even. No way do I think his good moves outweigh his bad moves though. His tenure here will be decided by how he handles Getz and perry.

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02-21-2013, 01:00 AM
  #166
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There are 16 players on this roster that weren't there when he took over. That prospect pool isn't something he inherited, and it isn't something that every GM in this league can boast about. Those things didn't all happen over the summer.
Oh his drafting has been very good. Even his biggest haters can't argue that. Performance wise though, he's been ok at best. And that's due to some of his moves.

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02-21-2013, 01:02 AM
  #167
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Meh, his biggest hindrance has been the budget. We have mediocre owners.

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02-21-2013, 01:10 AM
  #168
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Oh his drafting has been very good. Even his biggest haters can't argue that. Performance wise though, he's been ok at best. And that's due to some of his moves.
I don't think you're seeing the forest for the trees.

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02-21-2013, 01:19 AM
  #169
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Letting Beauchemin walk and having to move a great prospect in Gardiner is not small at all.
This has been beaten to death already, was it okay to let Beauch go? No. Was the trade itself acceptable? Yes. At the time, Lupul had no spot in our lineup, he wasn't performing great, and Fowler's emergence along with other defensive prospects we had allowed us to make that move.

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Brining in sutton to be a top 4 defenseman and killing our season that year is not small.
After the playoff run that Sutton had with Ottawa the previous year, I really don't think anyone expected him to fall off from the number four spot we were hoping he could take over. That was not a bad move. That was a player not working out on the team.

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His tenure here will be decided by how he handles Getz and perry.
********. It's not really his fault if either or both decide to walk. As far as I'm concerned, we don't even need to entertain the idea of trading either. Period.

Sure, it'd be amazing to get both of them locked up before the off-season. But let's focus on the season at hand first and foremost. You don't deal either of them when we're in the playoff hunt.

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02-21-2013, 01:25 AM
  #170
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We are discussing Murray. Pointing out some of his moves doesn't hurt anything. Some of his moves were minor, but some weren't. We can focus on the big ones if you want...

-let Beauch walk when we could have afforded him (don't even try to tell me we couldn't cause that's complete BS). This move cost us a fantastic prospect in Gardiner.

-signed Sutton to fill out our top 4, when he had Never shown he could hold that kind of role down in a season.

Those two are probably his biggest blunders IMO. They killed us those seasons.

He's had some good moves too. I don't deny that. My point is that there's no question that before this year his tenure here has been mediocre at best.
We should bring back Brian Burke

Beauch was coming off of major knee surgery, and he DID struggle with the leafs for a while, also how did Anaheim have the money? they were trying to become a more offensive team, Sutton had a great run w/Ottawa before we signed him how could Anaheim have predicted he'd fall off so much, and wouldn't fit the system?

Of course losing Gardiner sucked, but he is currently 8th on the leafs depth chart, you know how we know his value is decreasing? Leaf fans are offering him up all over the place

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02-21-2013, 01:26 AM
  #171
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2.9 mil is nothing.

Yes there is an internal cap.

If fasth falls off and hiller stays healthy and hiller plays well, then there are teams out there who will take 1 or 2 year contract for a chance on fasth.

I think its a great move to show faith in the guy, and give him money hed no doubt be offered in free agency anyway.

What makes this move better? A milion less? A year shorter? No signing?

If ur options r let fasth walk or sign to this deal, which do you do? You dont deal him in a season where your team is on fire and hiller is questionable.

You dont spend this summer searching for a fa goalie if hiller isnt working out.

Its spending for a redundancy. A redundancy in net that has had a huge impact on this season.

BM did not just choose fasth over perry. Its not that black and white.

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02-21-2013, 01:29 AM
  #172
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BM did not just choose fasth over perry. Its not that black and white.
And I don't mean any kind of offense personally, but you'd have to be some kind of idiot to even insinuate that Fasth getting locked up in any way will effect the Perry negotiations. I'm not going to bother reading back in the thread, but I really hope people aren't suggesting that.

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02-21-2013, 01:35 AM
  #173
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And I don't mean any kind of offense personally, but you'd have to be some kind of idiot to even insinuate that Fasth getting locked up in any way will effect the Perry negotiations. I'm not going to bother reading back in the thread, but I really hope people aren't suggesting that.
Why does that make someone such an idiot? It's a legit concern because it adds an extra 3 million dollars to the payroll. Not saying I agree with that line of thinking, but why does that make someone an idiot for thinking that? 3 million dollars to our goalie could possibly mean 3 million left to spend on Pears

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02-21-2013, 01:39 AM
  #174
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Or there could be retirements in the pipeline for Anaheim that the team know about, but the general public don't?

Maybe the budget is expanded?

Maybe the team has the idea to trade Hiller at the draft in it's mind so that frees up a further 4.5m for Perry and Getz?

Who knows

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02-21-2013, 01:40 AM
  #175
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Why does that make someone such an idiot? It's a legit concern because it adds an extra 3 million dollars to the payroll. Not saying I agree with that line of thinking, but why does that make someone an idiot for thinking that? 3 million dollars to our goalie could possibly mean 3 million left to spend on Pears
it's 3 mil NEXT year, and it's pretty likely one of these goalies is traded by October

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