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Rumor and Proposal Thread Vol. 4: Tambo: Here's my number, call me maybe?

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Old
02-21-2013, 01:43 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
Don't mind him. He was and clearly still is a heavy SC supporter with seemingly obvious spite now as he did then for RNH. The only upgrade slightly in that trade is Simmonds really. Couturier is a dependant #2 but thinking he's a number over Hopkins is bizarre on any roster. Furthermore, I'd love to know what Couturier has accomplished. Huberdeau on the other hand...
Couturier was part of the team that won the QMJHL championship in 09.

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02-21-2013, 01:51 AM
  #102
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Couturier was part of the team that won the QMJHL championship in 09.
MAP was a pretty good junior player too as I recall.... Wonder what he's up to.

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02-21-2013, 02:00 AM
  #103
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If we're moving anyone of the kids it should be RNH. The kid's just not a winner, hasn't won anything at any level he's played. In saying that if we're moving any of the kids the return should be substantial. Something like Couturier+Simmonds+Coburn for RNH+Jones+N.Schultz
Dear lord that is a piss poor idea if I've ever heard one. RNH IMO is the cornerstone of this franchise a future elite #1C aka the kind of player that you don't move unless it's for an already established player in that mold. RNH and Hall are the last 2 forwards on this team that I'd deal, Hall for his speed, will to win, and leadership and RNH for his playmaking ability, defense, and the ability to make plays that most can't even see. If you wnat Couturier badly you move Gagner ++ for him or one of the wingers for Couturier +, you don't move RNH, Hall, or Schultz period. Saying that RNH is not a winner in a TEAM sport is also ridiculous, what did Seguin win prior to winning the friggin' Stanley Cup? Now all of a sudden he's a winner because he was part of a cup winning team? What has anyone on our team ever won? Khabby IIRC won a cup, does that make him some sort of a great player?

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02-21-2013, 02:02 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Couturier was part of the team that won the QMJHL championship in 09.
And Rob Schremp won a Memorial Cup so Schremp > Couturier and many other great players that have never had team success?

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02-21-2013, 02:14 AM
  #105
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Dear lord that is a piss poor idea if I've ever heard one. RNH IMO is the cornerstone of this franchise a future elite #1C aka the kind of player that you don't move unless it's for an already established player in that mold. RNH and Hall are the last 2 forwards on this team that I'd deal, Hall for his speed, will to win, and leadership and RNH for his playmaking ability, defense, and the ability to make plays that most can't even see. If you wnat Couturier badly you move Gagner ++ for him or one of the wingers for Couturier +, you don't move RNH, Hall, or Schultz period. Saying that RNH is not a winner in a TEAM sport is also ridiculous, what did Seguin win prior to winning the friggin' Stanley Cup? Now all of a sudden he's a winner because he was part of a cup winning team? What has anyone on our team ever won? Khabby IIRC won a cup, does that make him some sort of a great player?
RNH will be this generations Joe Thornton. He'll put up a ton of points but IMO it questionable if he coud lead a team to a cup. Luckily we have Hall and Eberle to help lead the way, hopefully we pick up some actual vets who have been there and won as well to help guide them. And I'm not for trading RNH unless it clearly benefits the team. Your not getting a a great all around center, a gritty 30 goal scorer and a top 4 d man for nothing. Jones and Schultz are throw ins to equal out salary. The same people calling this deal bad would probably have said the same thing about the nordiques and Lindros.

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02-21-2013, 02:17 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Couturier was part of the team that won the QMJHL championship in 09.
That's a no-brainier than. After all, Doan did win back to back Memorial cup championships and how many cups? Not too mention the minor role SC played on that squad. If he was leading scorer or driving force I could see your point but seriously man, how do you define him as more of a winner than Hopkins cause he jumped on the bus of an already stacked team with a minor role at best whereas Hopkins outproduced him, played a larger role on a much lesser team but didn't ride the pine to the league championship?

You're being ridiculous again. After all, according to you, Couturier should've went first overall and we clearly made a mistake not picking him.

That said I'd love to have him on our team but not at the expense of a much more skilled centre with higher production, a higher ceiling and much more prototypically suited to a 1C role. We sacrifice a1C to be more balanced. How many teams still desire that 1C much like we did and you want cast it?

Correct me if in wrong but haven't you wanted Gagner gone yet he's the future 1C? (I could be wrong here, not sure)

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02-21-2013, 02:17 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
RNH will be this generations Joe Thornton. He'll put up a ton of points but IMO it questionable if he coud lead a team to a cup. Luckily we have Hall and Eberle to help lead the way, hopefully we pick up some actual vets who have been there and won as well to help guide them. And I'm not for trading RNH unless it clearly benefits the team. Your not getting a a great all around center, a gritty 30 goal scorer and a top 4 d man for nothing. Jones and Schultz are throw ins to equal out salary. The same people calling this deal bad would probably have said the same thing about the nordiques and Lindros.
If you ask any Sharks fan, they think Thornton has been great in the last few years of playoff action.

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02-21-2013, 02:22 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
RNH will be this generations Joe Thornton. He'll put up a ton of points but IMO it questionable if he coud lead a team to a cup. Luckily we have Hall and Eberle to help lead the way, hopefully we pick up some actual vets who have been there and won as well to help guide them. And I'm not for trading RNH unless it clearly benefits the team. Your not getting a a great all around center, a gritty 30 goal scorer and a top 4 d man for nothing. Jones and Schultz are throw ins to equal out salary. The same people calling this deal bad would probably have said the same thing about the nordiques and Lindros.
Or he could be a Joe Sakic, Datsyuk etc. take your pick or skew. It instead. Your choice.

Nuge did score a game winning goal in the gold final for the Ivan Hlinka if that helps your point at all. Led the juniors in scoring, Couturier accomplished neither... No junior championships like Sakic though.. Must be this generations Sakic...


Last edited by Grod: 02-21-2013 at 02:34 AM.
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02-21-2013, 02:22 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
RNH will be this generations Joe Thornton. He'll put up a ton of points but IMO it questionable if he coud lead a team to a cup. Luckily we have Hall and Eberle to help lead the way, hopefully we pick up some actual vets who have been there and won as well to help guide them. And I'm not for trading RNH unless it clearly benefits the team. Your not getting a a great all around center, a gritty 30 goal scorer and a top 4 d man for nothing. Jones and Schultz are throw ins to equal out salary. The same people calling this deal bad would probably have said the same thing about the nordiques and Lindros.
So your saying RNH will be a HOF centre? And we want to trade that away?

The whole idea of trading away any of the big 5 is cray. This roster has some serious imbalance, yes, but to entertain the notion of trading away the top-5 is silly. You literally trade away anyone else before considering trading them.

Jeez to consider trading a sophomore C who put up 50 points in his first season because he's slumping a little.

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02-21-2013, 02:26 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
RNH will be this generations Joe Thornton. He'll put up a ton of points but IMO it questionable if he coud lead a team to a cup. Luckily we have Hall and Eberle to help lead the way, hopefully we pick up some actual vets who have been there and won as well to help guide them. And I'm not for trading RNH unless it clearly benefits the team. Your not getting a a great all around center, a gritty 30 goal scorer and a top 4 d man for nothing. Jones and Schultz are throw ins to equal out salary. The same people calling this deal bad would probably have said the same thing about the nordiques and Lindros.
Where's the Forsberg in this deal? RNH >>> Couturier. I must've missed where SC won a Memorial Cup, Stanley Cup, or Gold at the WJC's? RNH is a guy that you win with, he's got growing to do especially on draws (so does Couturier), but he's got offensive abilities that Couturier could only dream of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
If you ask any Sharks fan, they think Thornton has been great in the last few years of playoff action.
No doubt, IMO he's been solid for them, it's the rest of the supporting cast that have blown chunks.

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02-21-2013, 02:28 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
That's a no-brainier than. After all, Doan did win back to back Memorial cup championships and how many cups? Not too mention the minor role SC played on that squad. If he was leading scorer or driving force I could see your point but seriously man, how do you define him as more of a winner than Hopkins cause he jumped on the bus of an already stacked team with a minor role at best whereas Hopkins outproduced him, played a larger role on a much lesser team but didn't ride the pine to the league championship?

You're being ridiculous again. After all, according to you, Couturier should've went first overall and we clearly made a mistake not picking him.

That said I'd love to have him on our team but not at the expense of a much more skilled centre with higher production, a higher ceiling and much more prototypically suited to a 1C role. We sacrifice a1C to be more balanced. How many teams still desire that 1C much like we did and you want cast it?

Correct me if in wrong but haven't you wanted Gagner gone yet he's the future 1C? (I could be wrong here, not sure)
I have no problems with Gagner or RNH. But I feel that if we move one we may be able to round out our top 6 a little better. Obviously I would want to move the one who has best return given what's going out.

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02-21-2013, 02:30 AM
  #112
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So your saying RNH will be a HOF centre? And we want to trade that away?

The whole idea of trading away any of the big 5 is cray. This roster has some serious imbalance, yes, but to entertain the notion of trading away the top-5 is silly. You literally trade away anyone else before considering trading them.

Jeez to consider trading a sophomore C who put up 50 points in his first season because he's slumping a little.
Amen, RNH's 2 way play has been solid going against the top players in the league. SC is a -3 this season while RNH is a -1. RNH is working on becoming one of the best pick pockets in the league and he is tremendous at collecting bouncing pucks and then making quick plays with them. I realize that his offensive stats are the least impressive of the guys on the top line, but he's been doing a lot of other things well including his defence and slowly improving on faceoffs.

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02-21-2013, 02:32 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
Or he could be a Joe Sakic, Datsyuk etc. take your pick or skew. It instead. Your choice.

Nuge did score a game winning goal in the gold final for the gold if that helps your point at all. Led the juniors in scoring, Couturier accomplished neither... No junior championships like Sakic though.. Must be this generations Sakic...
Regarding Datsyuk.

Just before his first time he was due to be a UFA, he had a rep as a playoff choker. Turns out he just needed to mature and gain experience, and then he became the playoff performer we now know.

Funny how things work like that.

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02-21-2013, 02:33 AM
  #114
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I have no problems with Gagner or RNH. But I feel that if we move one we may be able to round out our top 6 a little better. Obviously I would want to move the one who has best return given what's going out.
You win championships with RNH and SC not with SC and Gagner. I like the idea of having a pair of solid 2 way centers leading your charge however Gagner is not one of those players at this point and he may never get there. I'd sooner move Gagner ++ or offersheet ROR than move RNH for Couturier +.

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02-21-2013, 02:33 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
If you ask any Sharks fan, they think Thornton has been great in the last few years of playoff action.
Yea but Thornton isn't a game changer like Datsyuk or Sakic where they could take over a game.

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02-21-2013, 02:35 AM
  #116
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Yea but Thornton isn't a game changer like Datsyuk or Sakic where they could take over a game.
Datsyuk has speed on Thornton and Sakic had a better shot. That said Thornton can still take over games with his playmaking. RNH is a better skater, and better with his stick defensively than Thornton is IMO. Both are primarily playmakers which is not a bad thing at all IMO.

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02-21-2013, 02:41 AM
  #117
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Yea but Thornton isn't a game changer like Datsyuk or Sakic where they could take over a game.
I understand your point but simply not at the expense of what you're suggesting. There are other ways to address an organizational need without giving up its best piece.

If Thornton isn't a game changed, Gagner or Couturier are?!

The Lindros comparison is pale at best. Not a playmaker but was a leading goal scorer with an unfortunate concussion issue that arose later. I fail to see any correlation other than hysteria there.

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02-21-2013, 02:43 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You win championships with RNH and SC not with SC and Gagner. I like the idea of having a pair of solid 2 way centers leading your charge however Gagner is not one of those players at this point and he may never get there. I'd sooner move Gagner ++ or offersheet ROR than move RNH for Couturier +.
You make Gagner sound like a echl plug in everyone of your posts, the guy is above a ppg 1/3 way through season . So Gagner could never win a cup no matter where in you opinion cause he would bring any team down.Can understand you don't like the guy but wow.

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02-21-2013, 02:44 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You win championships with RNH and SC not with SC and Gagner. I like the idea of having a pair of solid 2 way centers leading your charge however Gagner is not one of those players at this point and he may never get there. I'd sooner move Gagner ++ or offersheet ROR than move RNH for Couturier +.

Your missing a few +'s. Simmonds and Coburn are nothing to sneeze at in addition to Couturier. I bet if you posted this trade on the trade board flyers fans would get mad. And Couturier could become the next Forsberg for all we know.

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02-21-2013, 02:50 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You win championships with RNH and SC not with SC and Gagner. I like the idea of having a pair of solid 2 way centers leading your charge however Gagner is not one of those players at this point and he may never get there. I'd sooner move Gagner ++ or offersheet ROR than move RNH for Couturier +.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod View Post
I understand your point but simply not at the expense of what you're suggesting. There are other ways to address an organizational need without giving up its best piece.

If Thornton isn't a game changed, Gagner or Couturier are?!

The Lindros comparison is pale at best. Not a playmaker but was a leading goal scorer with an unfortunate concussion issue that arose later. I fail to see any correlation other than hysteria there.
RNH is not the organizations best piece, IMO it's Hall, he's the heartbeat of this team. Without him were easily last in the west.

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02-21-2013, 03:09 AM
  #121
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RNH is not the organizations best piece, IMO it's Hall, he's the heartbeat of this team. Without him were easily last in the west.
Each to their own. He is currently, yeah. Hopkins imo projects to be the better player for good reason which you may discredit if you wish but at that they both bring their own unique dynamic own qualities that are both pivotal and instrumental to this organizations growth. Trading either is a a step back not forward.

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02-21-2013, 03:12 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
You win championships with RNH and SC not with SC and Gagner. I like the idea of having a pair of solid 2 way centers leading your charge however Gagner is not one of those players at this point and he may never get there. I'd sooner move Gagner ++ or offersheet ROR than move RNH for Couturier +.
The idea of offer sheeting ROR is awfully enticing hey. He's arguably what you hope your first round selection from this years draft develops into depending on draft position and with an extra second we have the depth to compensate.

He did after all have the most takeaways in the NHL last season. That elite company where he could badly use assistance.


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02-21-2013, 03:19 AM
  #123
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Can we just stop talking about trading RNH?

Our lineup definitely doesn't look balanced with Gagner as the No.1 C and Couturier or whoever as the No.2. It makes us look like we need a No.1 C...

What we should be talking about is whether or not we will be buyers or sellers at the deadline. Who would we buy? Who would we sell? That's the bigger discussion right now.

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02-21-2013, 03:30 AM
  #124
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Can we just stop talking about trading RNH?

Our lineup definitely doesn't look balanced with Gagner as the No.1 C and Couturier or whoever as the No.2. It makes us look like we need a No.1 C...

What we should be talking about is whether or not we will be buyers or sellers at the deadline. Who would we buy? Who would we sell? That's the bigger discussion right now.
Whitney & Hemsky are really the only guys we have to 'sell'. Unless anyone wanted Belanger or Horcoff.

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02-21-2013, 04:00 AM
  #125
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Comparing RNH to Couturier is pointless. It's apples and oranges. I'm a huge SC fan, have been since he was in junior and I always will be. The fact of the matter is RNH is an offensive 1C and SC is a big all around 2C. You really can't compare them. I wish the oilers could find a way to get both of them. He would be a massive upgrade over Gagner for this team because of the intangibles he brings. I like Gagner, but RNH and Gagner as a 1-2 punch doesn't work with the wingers we have. Couturier kind of reminds me of Toews. I would love a player like that to anchor the second line and the PK.

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