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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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Old
02-20-2013, 08:19 PM
  #251
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Really not a fan of moving MDZ. I think we'll regret it.

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02-20-2013, 09:35 PM
  #252
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I'm confident with Slats ability to make a good/acceptable deal for ROR ...

I'm more worried how much more we have to give up to acquire another Dman

This seems like its a 2part deal IMO

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02-21-2013, 12:20 AM
  #253
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Love how RoR is basically being made out to be the savior we must have to fix our problems.

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02-21-2013, 01:18 AM
  #254
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If we could actually add McI and keep MDZ, then I'm for it.

McI has potential, but MDZ is proven now.

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02-21-2013, 01:22 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Love how RoR is basically being made out to be the savior we must have to fix our problems.
That is not it at all.

It's called maximizing assets in a salary cap world. Look through this thread and the last Trade Rumor Thread for explanation.

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02-21-2013, 02:45 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by JaeTM View Post
Really not a fan of moving MDZ. I think we'll regret it.
I'd move MDZ if necessary, not for ROR however.

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02-21-2013, 02:47 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
That is not it at all.

It's called maximizing assets in a salary cap world. Look through this thread and the last Trade Rumor Thread for explanation.
Also known as "shiny new toy syndrome"

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02-21-2013, 05:09 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
That is not it at all.

It's called maximizing assets in a salary cap world. Look through this thread and the last Trade Rumor Thread for explanation.
Not buying the premise that has been put forth that ROR is going to be significantly better than MDZ to justify the trade.

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02-21-2013, 06:30 AM
  #259
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Ryan O'Reilly is not "shiny new toy syndrome". ROR is 22 years old. He can be part of the short and long term solution. The price has to be right. The price to acquire him. The price to pay him. Iginla is "shiny new toy syndrome". Players like Iginla. Big names. Older players.

The Rangers had the fewest money invested on D in 11-12 with the $64.3M cap which included the Drury buyout. DZ is getting $2.55M and not $1M with bonuses. McD won't be making $1.3M with bonuses. He will get a big contract this summer. Girardi is up for a big contract in 2014. DZ is up for a big contract in 2014. Then there is Staal in 2015. The Rangers have some big decisions to make. They have 3 players signed past 13-14. Staal,Nash and Richards. 4 if you count Miller. Compliance buyout for Richards.

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02-21-2013, 07:07 AM
  #260
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Iginla would be a strong pick up for this team. A much more effective player than Doan would have. I'm not a big fan of rental players, and he costs too much $$$$.

I'm behind moving MDZ for ROR, but there has to be another defensman coming in at some point

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02-21-2013, 07:27 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Also known as "shiny new toy syndrome"
Psople said the same thing about Rick Nash. He's now their most dynamic and consistent forward thus far.

Sometimes it's actually about making a good trade and managing assets to maximize their value in making the team on the ice better. Some players are more valuable to this team as trading chips than pieces to the puzzle. In the end that's up to management to decide and for us to speculate. The downside to drafting well and having a homegrown roster is you can't keep everyone forever. People tend to forget this fact when the idea of trading away a good player is proposed. I'm just as happy if DelZotto is a 50pt defensemen here, or if he is a 50 pt player somewhere else but returned an equal or better player to NYR. That's good asset management which is just as important as drafting and developing those assets to begin with.

As far as depth needs for this team, it's a no-brainer. There is a much better chance they churn out another top 4 defensemen than there is they churn out a solid #1/2 C with Selke potential. Both players are at an age where you are pretty much knowing what you are going to get, aside from refining their games. They don't have to make this move, no, but they should if the price is right.

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02-21-2013, 08:03 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
That is not it at all.

It's called maximizing assets in a salary cap world. Look through this thread and the last Trade Rumor Thread for explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Psople said the same thing about Rick Nash. He's now their most dynamic and consistent forward thus far.

Sometimes it's actually about making a good trade and managing assets to maximize their value in making the team on the ice better. Some players are more valuable to this team as trading chips than pieces to the puzzle. In the end that's up to management to decide and for us to speculate. The downside to drafting well and having a homegrown roster is you can't keep everyone forever. People tend to forget this fact when the idea of trading away a good player is proposed. I'm just as happy if DelZotto is a 50pt defensemen here, or if he is a 50 pt player somewhere else but returned an equal or better player to NYR. That's good asset management which is just as important as drafting and developing those assets to begin with.

As far as depth needs for this team, it's a no-brainer. There is a much better chance they churn out another top 4 defensemen than there is they churn out a solid #1/2 C with Selke potential. Both players are at an age where you are pretty much knowing what you are going to get, aside from refining their games. They don't have to make this move, no, but they should if the price is right.
No, it's the HFboards GMs here that are just "maximizing their assets" not a professional organization. A professional organization that has made it a standard that they do not give into high salary demands of young players. $4-$5 million dollars is absolutely ****ing ridiculous for a 22 year old who has had just ONE great season, and that is pushing it in the 50-60 point range. I don't care what team he was on nor do I care about how people claim he would put up 70 points here on this rangers team. The guy is selfish, it is selfish demands....and the rumors about him complaining about not being made captain makes this even worse. The rangers have spent years building an identity, an identity that does not allow ego's into the locker room. We pushed Avery out the door, now we're going to bring in this immature kid who thinks he is owed things after just 3 years in the NHL? C'mon get your heads straight.

And what message does it send to the rest of the players in this organization when they have been signing guys to bridge contracts at lower cap hits? Disloyalty. I read the threads, I heard all your explanations that MDZ is expendable. I completely disagree. PMD are not floating around for grabs. If they were we wouldn't have struggled to find one over the past decade since Leetch. MDZ also signed a cheaper bridge contract for the rangers. He could've been paid more. So now we're going to trade him for RoR because we have to be in on every name available. Who's replacing MDZ? Gilroy? Barrie from the Avs? Yeah I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Iginla would be a strong pick up for this team. A much more effective player than Doan would have. I'm not a big fan of rental players, and he costs too much $$$$.

I'm behind moving MDZ for ROR, but there has to be another defensman coming in at some point
Iginla would be the right pick up for this team. Absolutely would not be the "shiny new toy" because he'd be a RENTAL. The type of player he is fits the MOLD of this team. 35 years old UFA at the end of the season. He scores, he hits, he fights, he leads. Definitely could offer more than RoR which definitely costs you more in assets. Not to mention you still have players to sign in the following years in a SALARY CAP WORLD. All this talk about maximizing assets. Trading for Iginla as a rental as opposed to RoR saves you assets and money in a salary cap world.

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02-21-2013, 08:23 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No, it's the HFboards GMs here that are just "maximizing their assets" not a professional organization. A professional organization that has made it a standard that they do not give into high salary demands of young players. $4-$5 million dollars is absolutely ****ing ridiculous for a 22 year old who has had just ONE great season, and that is pushing it in the 50-60 point range. I don't care what team he was on nor do I care about how people claim he would put up 70 points here on this rangers team. The guy is selfish, it is selfish demands....and the rumors about him complaining about not being made captain makes this even worse. The rangers have spent years building an identity, an identity that does not allow ego's into the locker room. We pushed Avery out the door, now we're going to bring in this immature kid who thinks he is owed things after just 3 years in the NHL? C'mon get your heads straight.

And what message does it send to the rest of the players in this organization when they have been signing guys to bridge contracts at lower cap hits? Disloyalty. I read the threads, I heard all your explanations that MDZ is expendable. I completely disagree. PMD are not floating around for grabs. If they were we wouldn't have struggled to find one over the past decade since Leetch. MDZ also signed a cheaper bridge contract for the rangers. He could've been paid more. So now we're going to trade him for RoR because we have to be in on every name available. Who's replacing MDZ? Gilroy? Barrie from the Avs? Yeah I don't think so.


Iginla would be the right pick up for this team. Absolutely would not be the "shiny new toy" because he'd be a RENTAL. The type of player he is fits the MOLD of this team. 35 years old UFA at the end of the season. He scores, he hits, he fights, he leads. Definitely could offer more than RoR which definitely costs you more in assets. Not to mention you still have players to sign in the following years in a SALARY CAP WORLD. All this talk about maximizing assets. Trading for Iginla as a rental as opposed to RoR saves you assets and money in a salary cap world.

So you are okay paying a high price for Iginla who has looked terrible in Calgary but not okay paying the price for ROR who is 22 and can be part of this team for a very long time?

Iginla used to be good.

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02-21-2013, 08:24 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Ryan O'Reilly is not "shiny new toy syndrome". ROR is 22 years old. He can be part of the short and long term solution. The price has to be right. The price to acquire him. The price to pay him. Iginla is "shiny new toy syndrome". Players like Iginla. Big names. Older players.

The Rangers had the fewest money invested on D in 11-12 with the $64.3M cap which included the Drury buyout. DZ is getting $2.55M and not $1M with bonuses. McD won't be making $1.3M with bonuses. He will get a big contract this summer. Girardi is up for a big contract in 2014. DZ is up for a big contract in 2014. Then there is Staal in 2015. The Rangers have some big decisions to make. They have 3 players signed past 13-14. Staal,Nash and Richards. 4 if you count Miller. Compliance buyout for Richards.
Exactly this. People are just ignoring the cap. Choices.

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02-21-2013, 08:32 AM
  #265
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RGY,

In regards to the idea that RoR is actually holding out for a big payout, again, why do you believe this to be true? All evidence, be it rumblings, rumors or inside info, has suggested something went wrong during negotiations and now he wants out of Colorado. Let's just forget about this part of the scenario entirely however because it's impossible to know one way or the other which is actually the case, and more importantly Sather will get this kid on his terms. Stop worrying about a potential albatross contract because it's pointless. Sather would never let RoR strong-arm him into a ridiculous payout. If he does, you can worry about it then. None of us here are suggesting trading MDZ AND giving RoR the contract he wants. Moving on.

It confuses me that you think Iginla is a better idea as a rental, rather than bringing in future long-term talent in a position where it is lacking it. To suggest Iginla is the move this team needs is to say the Rangers are going to contend for the cup this year and trading away more young assets for a rental is worth it. What gives you that impression? The product on the ice certainly shouldn't, nor should the performance of the two well overpaid and moving out of their prime players they have in Gaborik and Richards. Yet you want to bring in Iggy? No, God no. Certainly not as a trade deadline move.

I like DelZotto but you can win a Cup without a puck mover, especially in the system Torts is running. You can't win one without solid forward depth and center is arguably the most important right now since they have the most defensive responsibility. Unless Torts decides to change the gameplan, I have to say DZ for RoR is a good move, for the right terms.

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02-21-2013, 08:33 AM
  #266
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Personally I would much rather pay ROR 4M long term than MDZ.

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02-21-2013, 08:37 AM
  #267
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Anyone care to provide a scouting report on Ryan O'Reilly?

And what are we pitching? MDZ? Is that the latest?

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02-21-2013, 08:39 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No, it's the HFboards GMs here that are just "maximizing their assets" not a professional organization. A professional organization that has made it a standard that they do not give into high salary demands of young players. $4-$5 million dollars is absolutely ****ing ridiculous for a 22 year old who has had just ONE great season, and that is pushing it in the 50-60 point range. I don't care what team he was on nor do I care about how people claim he would put up 70 points here on this rangers team. The guy is selfish, it is selfish demands....and the rumors about him complaining about not being made captain makes this even worse. The rangers have spent years building an identity, an identity that does not allow ego's into the locker room. We pushed Avery out the door, now we're going to bring in this immature kid who thinks he is owed things after just 3 years in the NHL? C'mon get your heads straight.

And what message does it send to the rest of the players in this organization when they have been signing guys to bridge contracts at lower cap hits? Disloyalty. I read the threads, I heard all your explanations that MDZ is expendable. I completely disagree. PMD are not floating around for grabs. If they were we wouldn't have struggled to find one over the past decade since Leetch. MDZ also signed a cheaper bridge contract for the rangers. He could've been paid more. So now we're going to trade him for RoR because we have to be in on every name available. Who's replacing MDZ? Gilroy? Barrie from the Avs? Yeah I don't think so.


Iginla would be the right pick up for this team. Absolutely would not be the "shiny new toy" because he'd be a RENTAL. The type of player he is fits the MOLD of this team. 35 years old UFA at the end of the season. He scores, he hits, he fights, he leads. Definitely could offer more than RoR which definitely costs you more in assets. Not to mention you still have players to sign in the following years in a SALARY CAP WORLD. All this talk about maximizing assets. Trading for Iginla as a rental as opposed to RoR saves you assets and money in a salary cap world.
you're really reaching on the Avery argument. Can we move past this boob?

On Iginla we agree only if the the asking price isn't too much. It's stupid to give up prospects for a rental player that we can't sign long term, or even for a few years of his services. Iginla in NY for 2-3 years would be awesome but it's not going to happen.

ROR is a solution at center for the unavoidable buyout of Brad Richards. If BR is having starts this slow after only 2 seasons, just imagine how bad he'll be in the years to come. the guy doen'st look inspired to play hockey right now.

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02-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No, it's the HFboards GMs here that are just "maximizing their assets" not a professional organization. A professional organization that has made it a standard that they do not give into high salary demands of young players. $4-$5 million dollars is absolutely ****ing ridiculous for a 22 year old who has had just ONE great season, and that is pushing it in the 50-60 point range. I don't care what team he was on nor do I care about how people claim he would put up 70 points here on this rangers team. The guy is selfish, it is selfish demands....and the rumors about him complaining about not being made captain makes this even worse. The rangers have spent years building an identity, an identity that does not allow ego's into the locker room. We pushed Avery out the door, now we're going to bring in this immature kid who thinks he is owed things after just 3 years in the NHL? C'mon get your heads straight.

And what message does it send to the rest of the players in this organization when they have been signing guys to bridge contracts at lower cap hits? Disloyalty. I read the threads, I heard all your explanations that MDZ is expendable. I completely disagree. PMD are not floating around for grabs. If they were we wouldn't have struggled to find one over the past decade since Leetch. MDZ also signed a cheaper bridge contract for the rangers. He could've been paid more. So now we're going to trade him for RoR because we have to be in on every name available. Who's replacing MDZ? Gilroy? Barrie from the Avs? Yeah I don't think so.

Iginla would be the right pick up for this team. Absolutely would not be the "shiny new toy" because he'd be a RENTAL. The type of player he is fits the MOLD of this team. 35 years old UFA at the end of the season. He scores, he hits, he fights, he leads. Definitely could offer more than RoR which definitely costs you more in assets. Not to mention you still have players to sign in the following years in a SALARY CAP WORLD. All this talk about maximizing assets. Trading for Iginla as a rental as opposed to RoR saves you assets and money in a salary cap world.
Another RW would be the right pickup for this team? We have 3 top-six RW's on the roster already. How many more need to play out of position? Cheaper assets for a guy who will only be here for 20-ish games and we'll never see him again.

Iginla might, MIGHT give you more after the trade deadline, but I'd much, much rather address a position of need with a kid who can be here beyond the short term.

Enough with the greed nonsense already. Remember all the posts you made about Subban not being worth $4M per year so it was pointless to even consider trading for him? How he was so greedy to be holding out for big money? Didn't exactly hit that number on the head when all was said and done. You don't have any definitive answer as to what the kid would sign for with a team other than the Avs. Enough with the conjecture.

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02-21-2013, 08:45 AM
  #270
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A point to be made in favor of this thread. We have 3 very solid D-men under 30 that are proven (minus DZ). We have 1 proven center under 30 (unless you want to include Boyle who would be a 4th liner on good teams) and Richards looks like ****. We need a good center way more than a good D-man.

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02-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #271
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A point to be made in favor of this thread. We have 3 very solid D-men under 30 that are proven (minus DZ). We have 1 proven center under 30 (unless you want to include Boyle who would be a 4th liner on good teams) and Richards looks like ****. We need a good center way more than a good D-man.
In favor of this trade.

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02-21-2013, 08:48 AM
  #272
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Richards is not showing any signs that he's going to produce throughout the length of his contract. I'm sure he'll improve his play at some point this season (hopefully) but nothing short of a dominant 70p+ season next year will keep him here for the duration... even then it still makes too much sense to get ROR now and part with Brad next year.

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02-21-2013, 08:49 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Anyone care to provide a scouting report on Ryan O'Reilly?

And what are we pitching? MDZ? Is that the latest?
22 year old top-6 center. Scored 55 points last year in a down year for Duchene and Stastny playing with Landeskog. Plays against the other teams best players consistently. Will be a Selke contender for most of his career.

Plays great positional defense and, like Patrice Bergeron, just understands that side of the game very well. He turns takeaways into chances for his team.

Good skater, hard worker, high hockey IQ.

The only question that some have about him is whether the 55 points last year was a step in his development or a blip on the radar. IMO, considering the team he was on (awful) and the fact that he was playing with a rookie (Landeskog) who was talented and yet inexperienced, it was a step in his development.

I think he becomes a Patrice Bergeron clone. 60-70 points, great 2-way play.

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02-21-2013, 08:50 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Anyone care to provide a scouting report on Ryan O'Reilly?

And what are we pitching? MDZ? Is that the latest?
Very good two-way center with excellent face-off abilities. Isn't a physical shutdown presence but is one of the hardest players to play against thanks to his hockey sense. Has a decent shot and very good vision with the puck. Doubled his production last season after finally getting significant time at ES and on the PP. Busts his ass every shift. Has 65-70 point upside with elite defensive play.

Original rumor was that after we expressed interest in him, Colorado came back to us and asked about swapping Del Zotto for ROR. We asked for a defensemen in return. Once we did that, the Avs asked for Del Zotto plus someone the Rangers didn't want to give up and the talks broke off.

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02-21-2013, 08:53 AM
  #275
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I don't think DZ will be traded. DZ was off the table for Nash, I highly doubt he'll be on the table for Ryan ****ing O'Reilly. But lets say we do for arguments sake.

If we acquire him, he'd probably be our second line center behind Stepan (starting next year when Richie is bought out- will be third line C this year.)

This year:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Gaborik-Richards-Miller
Pyatt-O'Reilly-Callahan
Mashinter/Powe (if he can come back)-Halpern-Asham

If Kreider develops well over the course of the year and proves he's better than Miller, flip Gabby back to the RW and put Kreider on the left.

McD-G
Staal-Stralman
Gilroy-Eminger/Bickel?

You thought we rode our top 4 too hard last year/postseason...

Next year:

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-ROR-Gaborik
Pyatt-Miller-Callahan
Powe-insert 4th line Halpern-like player here-insert obligatory goon here

McD-G
Staal-Stralman
UFA-McIlrath

is probably what we'll see.

I think we forget how young DZ is since he's been here since he was 22. He's only one year older than Kreider, and Kreider hasn't even broken into the NHL yet. I know that the ROR crowd will say the same, but we haven't had a young offensive defensiveman really since Leetch. We'd regret trading him.

I'd much rather scope out free agency, and if we think we can get a Getzlaf-type player, buy out Richie this offseason, and if we don't, let him stick around one more year before buying him out to let JT/Boo develop.

McD-G
Staal-Stralman
MDZ-McIlrath

That's pretty. It'll be even prettier if MDZ develops any sort of a shot. It'll be gorgeous if McIlrath develops a rocket as well.

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