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Toronto-Colorado (yes o'reilly)

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:56 AM
  #226
The Beyonder
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There is no way, I mean NO WAY, the leafs trade Morgan Rielly for O'Reilly in a package let alone straight up, especially with the contract situation between the Avs and O'Reilly. Rielly is a dynamic player with a special skillset who will probably be an elite offensive d-men in the league one day.

ROR's a young player who has had one good year and is asking way too much for it. Avs management are smart enough to realize that and I don't think other managements in the league, especially the leafs, are going to overpay a #1C price tag for someone who appears to be a very good/great #2/3C.

I personally don't think the upgrade over a Bozak, who has been great this year, is worth a prospect of Morgan's caliber. Leaf management are extremely high on Morgan, for good reason, and I don't think he's going anywhere unless it's an offer they have to make; I don't think O'Reilly is one of those offers, even less so when you factor the circumstance surround his contract negotiations.

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02-21-2013, 05:18 AM
  #227
The Angry Teatowel
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Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
There is no way, I mean NO WAY, the leafs trade Morgan Rielly for O'Reilly in a package let alone straight up, especially with the contract situation between the Avs and O'Reilly. Rielly is a dynamic player with a special skillset who will probably be an elite offensive d-men in the league one day.

ROR's a young player who has had one good year and is asking way too much for it. Avs management are smart enough to realize that and I don't think other managements in the league, especially the leafs, are going to overpay a #1C price tag for someone who appears to be a very good/great #2/3C.

I personally don't think the upgrade over a Bozak, who has been great this year, is worth a prospect of Morgan's caliber. Leaf management are extremely high on Morgan, for good reason, and I don't think he's going anywhere unless it's an offer they have to make; I don't think O'Reilly is one of those offers, even less so when you factor the circumstance surround his contract negotiations.
This idea that O'Reilly only had one good season needs to stop. He's had 2 good seasons and one great season. Yes, he 'only' put up 26 points in each of the first two seasons, he was playing very sound hockey and playing well defensively. Yet again, the majority of HF Boards posters can't see past point totals.


Last edited by The Angry Teatowel: 02-21-2013 at 05:29 AM.
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02-21-2013, 05:23 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
There is no way, I mean NO WAY, the leafs trade Morgan Rielly for O'Reilly in a package let alone straight up, especially with the contract situation between the Avs and O'Reilly. Rielly is a dynamic player with a special skillset who will probably be an elite offensive d-men in the league one day.

ROR's a young player who has had one good year and is asking way too much for it. Avs management are smart enough to realize that and I don't think other managements in the league, especially the leafs, are going to overpay a #1C price tag for someone who appears to be a very good/great #2/3C.

I personally don't think the upgrade over a Bozak, who has been great this year, is worth a prospect of Morgan's caliber. Leaf management are extremely high on Morgan, for good reason, and I don't think he's going anywhere unless it's an offer they have to make; I don't think O'Reilly is one of those offers, even less so when you factor the circumstance surround his contract negotiations.
so one of them is a proven NHL player and the other one is ???

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02-21-2013, 06:01 AM
  #229
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so one of them is a proven NHL player and the other one is ???
. . .probably Erik Karlsson 2.0. But we haven't even seen what he can do yet, so maybe even better.

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02-21-2013, 06:10 AM
  #230
The Brewmeister
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Avs fans need to get the idea of getting Morgan Rielly or Jake Gardiner out of their head if they honestly think it will be straight up or Leafs adding. This is the same thing as the Joe Thornton deal. Unsigned player wanting more than his value and the team isn't offering to give him the money.

You don't trade high potential prospects or players who have signed a contract regardless whether or not they have proven anything in the NHL (Rielly) for someone who can't agree to terms on the amount of money they deserve (O'Rielly). Gardiner has also proven he can be a solid #2 defenceman long term with the Leafs.

If they were smart they would agree to a sign and trade like the Coyotes did with Turris, but nobody is going to pay O'Reilly what he is asking.

As stated in the OP, thats probably going to be your best offer. A defencemen who is playing now, a good prospect and a pick, which is more than enough for an unsigned RFA asking for more than his value.

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02-21-2013, 06:12 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
Avs fans need to get the idea of getting Morgan Rielly or Jake Gardiner out of their head if they honestly think it will be straight up or Leafs adding. This is the same thing as the Joe Thornton deal. Unsigned player wanting more than his value and the team isn't offering to give him the money.

Uf they were smart they would agree to a sign and trade like the Coyotes did with Turris, but nobody is going to pay O'Reilly what he is asking.

As stated in the OP, thats probably going to be your best offer. A defencemen who is playing now, a good prospect and a pick, which is more than enough for an unsigned RFA asking for more than his value.
People keep pointing to that trade...

How do you think Brad Staurt at that time stacked up to Gardiner or Rielly now?

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02-21-2013, 06:15 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
People keep pointing to that trade...

How do you think Brad Staurt at that time stacked up to Gardiner or Rielly now?
What does Brad Stuart have to do with anything? He's not a part of this deal.

and I added to my post, make sure you read my point.

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02-21-2013, 06:15 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
What does Brad Stuart have to do with anything? He's not a part of this deal.

and I added to my post, make sure you read my point.
You can't be serious... If you want to talk about the Thornton trade, we might as well look at what he brought back, as it was valued, at the time.

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02-21-2013, 06:17 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
You can't be serious...

You flame the Leafs by saying we assume that Morgan Rielly will "probably" turn out like Erik Karlsson and say I can;t be serious?

My knowledge about an irrelevant hockey player (Stuart) in this deal doesn't stretch far.

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02-21-2013, 06:20 AM
  #235
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
You flame the Leafs by saying we assume that Morgan Rielly will "probably" turn out like Erik Karlsson and say I can;t be serious?

My knowledge about an irrelevant hockey player (Stuart) in this deal doesn't stretch far.
All I have to say is that you probably shouldn't bring up past deals and insinuate that the value drops immensely if you don't know what was actually returned.

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02-21-2013, 06:20 AM
  #236
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
You flame the Leafs by saying we assume that Morgan Rielly will "probably" turn out like Erik Karlsson and say I can;t be serious?

My knowledge about an irrelevant hockey player (Stuart) in this deal doesn't stretch far.
That is almost a direct quote (the maybe even better is exaggeration) of one Leafs fans, but I've been warned that I'm not to call folks out by name.

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02-21-2013, 06:25 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
You can't be serious... If you want to talk about the Thornton trade, we might as well look at what he brought back, as it was valued, at the time.
The value for Thornton lied in what, Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and Wayne Primeau? A 3rd liner, and 2 second-pairing defencemen for the best player in the league at that time.

Or should we revisit the Healtey trade? A second liner in Milan Michalek, a former Rocket Richard player 3 years past his best season and obviously on a downfall in his career, and a 2nd.

When players want out, they want out. If they have a contract signed and are unwilling to play, that's one thing because the team knows how long they'll get out of them. When the player has nothing to his name to secure he'll even sign with a team, that's another.

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02-21-2013, 06:26 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
That is almost a direct quote (the maybe even better is exaggeration) of one Leafs fans, but I've been warned that I'm not to call folks out by name.
So how do I put this quote into context?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
. . .probably Erik Karlsson 2.0. But we haven't even seen what he can do yet, so maybe even better.
The point is, Rielly is highly sought to be a #1 d-man by Leafs fans, scouts, and hell even HFboards themselves. Why are we going to deal him for an unsigned great 3rd liner if we can;t guarantee he'll even sign with us?

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02-21-2013, 07:07 AM
  #239
The Angry Teatowel
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
What does Brad Stuart have to do with anything? He's not a part of this deal.

and I added to my post, make sure you read my point.
You were the one bringing up the Joe Thornton trade, of which Brad Stuart was a part of.

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02-21-2013, 07:12 AM
  #240
The Brewmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Angry Teatowel View Post
You were the one bringing up the Joe Thornton trade, of which Brad Stuart was a part of.
Ya, i had a blip at 7am. Thanks for the reminder.

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02-21-2013, 07:35 AM
  #241
The Angry Teatowel
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Ya, i had a blip at 7am. Thanks for the reminder.
Apologies, dude. Wasn't rubbing it in Big kiss!

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02-21-2013, 09:20 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
The value for Thornton lied in what, Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and Wayne Primeau? A 3rd liner, and 2 second-pairing defencemen for the best player in the league at that time.

Or should we revisit the Healtey trade? A second liner in Milan Michalek, a former Rocket Richard player 3 years past his best season and obviously on a downfall in his career, and a 2nd.

When players want out, they want out. If they have a contract signed and are unwilling to play, that's one thing because the team knows how long they'll get out of them. When the player has nothing to his name to secure he'll even sign with a team, that's another.
Brad Stuart was mid 20's, and was coming into his own as a great two way defender, putting up solid points totals and showing some defensive play.

Marco Sturm was 27 ish, coming off 21 G, 28 G and 21 G seasons, and well on his way to another 20+ goal campaign.

Primeau was a late 20's grinder type who was showing he could chip some points in.

Not saying it was a good trade by any means, but that might be what the Boston GM was thinking about. There was potential for good value in there.

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02-21-2013, 09:51 AM
  #243
Pierre Gotye
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Originally Posted by The Angry Teatowel View Post
This idea that O'Reilly only had one good season needs to stop. He's had 2 good seasons and one great season. Yes, he 'only' put up 26 points in each of the first two seasons, he was playing very sound hockey and playing well defensively. Yet again, the majority of HF Boards posters can't see past point totals.
Point totals are numbers that don't lie. We realize he's basically a defensive specialist, who excelled offensively last year. And yes, he put up points playing behind Stastny and Duchene, and his production leveled off after last year's all-star break. He also excelled at inflating his production once Duchene went down, and he got an opportunity for top 6 minutes.

He's a young player, who's a complimentary player with an effective skillset. But he's not worth risking a potential top 10 pick+3rd round selection over. He's also a bit of a risk giving a top 6 player and strong blue-chip prospect player for.

If any GM ponies up and pays the price, they are either very desperate or stupid enough to engage in a gamble, which is what his asking price has basically become.

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02-21-2013, 10:03 AM
  #244
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Point totals are numbers that don't lie. We realize he's basically a defensive specialist, who excelled offensively last year. And yes, he put up points playing behind Stastny and Duchene, and his production leveled off after last year's all-star break. He also excelled at inflating his production once Duchene went down, and he got an opportunity for top 6 minutes.

He's a young player, who's a complimentary player with an effective skillset. But he's not worth risking a potential top 10 pick+3rd round selection over. He's also a bit of a risk giving a top 6 player and strong blue-chip prospect player for.

If any GM ponies up and pays the price, they are either very desperate or stupid enough to engage in a gamble, which is what his asking price has basically become.
As I have asked repeatedly in this thread, show me another 20 year old who has scored 55 points and was top 15 in Selke voting. Until you find another one, he's worth whatever the Avs are asking for him.

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02-21-2013, 10:12 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So how do I put this quote into context?



The point is, Rielly is highly sought to be a #1 d-man by Leafs fans, scouts, and hell even HFboards themselves. Why are we going to deal him for an unsigned great 3rd liner if we can;t guarantee he'll even sign with us?
Im not going to get involved in the argument about the value of each player.

BUT, the bolded is an argument that absolutely needs to stop because it is absolutely untrue.

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02-21-2013, 10:21 AM
  #246
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So if we look at joe Thornton trade who was a top line player gunnerson MacArthur and bozak is more then enough

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02-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #247
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It's cute when leafs fans think they have any pieces that they could use to get Duchene. It's like when you see a puppy start smacking at a bigger dog that could just eat the puppy whole if it wanted to. So hopeless that you can't help but go awww.
Ok, this? This needs to stop.

Yes, the Leafs aren't a very good hockey team, we know that. But to say that we don't have any good pieces (Kessel, Rielly, Gardnier, Lupul, etc...) is asinine.

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02-21-2013, 10:49 AM
  #248
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It's cute when leafs fans think they have any pieces that they could use to get Duchene. It's like when you see a puppy start smacking at a bigger dog that could just eat the puppy whole if it wanted to. So hopeless that you can't help but go awww.
It's cute when A/Vs fans think they have any shot of getting Rielly or Gardniner with ROR. It's like when you see a puppy start smacking at a bigger dog that could just eat the puppy whole if it wanted to. So hopeless that you can't help but go awww.

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02-21-2013, 10:52 AM
  #249
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As I have asked repeatedly in this thread, show me another 20 year old who has scored 55 points and was top 15 in Selke voting. Until you find another one, he's worth whatever the Avs are asking for him.
Then maybe they should keep him.

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02-21-2013, 11:25 AM
  #250
IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Ok, this? This needs to stop.

Yes, the Leafs aren't a very good hockey team, we know that. But to say that we don't have any good pieces (Kessel, Rielly, Gardnier, Lupul, etc...) is asinine.
The point is not to disparage the Leafs, but rather to indicate the value of Duchene to the Avs franchise. He is a highly skilled player who is playing for his favorite team. There might be a ton of highly skilled players who grew up as Leaf fans, but there aren't a lot for Colorado.

Trading him would likely be career suicide for a GM, so the return would need to be an extreme overpayment, and I'm not sure any team would be willing to pay that price.

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