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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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02-21-2013, 11:30 AM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Have you ever watched ROR play? Serious question.
Answered.

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02-21-2013, 11:38 AM
  #327
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develop JT, probably will be a similar player...

Richards, Stepan, JT, Lindberg (SEL) lets BUILD OUR TEAM FROM WITHIN not keep trading core guys that have been developing with the same players for years now.. it got us here why start fixing something thats not broken..

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02-21-2013, 11:39 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
No need to revert to insults.
I have watched RoR play, he is a good player, not a great player, he is a good 2C, he is not a 1C.
I would gladly have him on the rangers, the question is at what price? Not DZ at this point.
He's not a 1C, just like MDZ is not a 1D.

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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Good argument, and I would add that DZ is stuck behind McD and Staal on the left side. Trading him for a righty PMD makes a lot of sense.
My argument is simple, DZ is more valuable than RoR.
Besides the fact that DZ is a 40 point scoring PMD, which is a premium position, he is signed and RoR is not.
If they want to trade RoR and Barrie/Elliott for DZ + pick, I would be all over it.
Richards
Stepan
Boyle/Miller
Halpern

What's going to happen with Richards? Boyle can't create any offense. Miller needs more time in the AHL. ROR's a shutdown center with offensive competence.

If Avs wanted Staal, or MCD, not happening. For MDZ though, you can see the potential, especially when you break down the rest of our roster.

As much as I like MDZ, I like the core of this team going forward a little more with ROR in our line-up.

I personally don't think you've watched much of ROR. Just an opinion.

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02-21-2013, 11:45 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Who's calling MDZ trash... Just because we're willing to make a trade doesn't mean he's garbage in our opinions. Who's to say other teams haven't tried to trade for him? You're reaching on a LOT of your arguments...
I am not reaching

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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
That doesn't answer my question...? MDZ has produced close to 40 points once, and hit 40 the other time. The first rime around, he was brutal defensively. BUT he's showing progression.
What is different from MDZ's progression, from
1. MDZ sucks defensively, but put up 40 pts
2. MDZ spends the year in the minors
3. MDZ comes back strong offensively and with an improved defensive game
FROM RoR
1. Making the NHL as a defensive forward immediately post draft posting small offensive totals.
2. STAYING in the NHL in year 2, improving his offensive numbers slightly but still playing at a high defensive level
3. Still maintaining strong defensive play, but greatly improving his offensive numbers.
Just compare the words you used to describe DZ vs the words you used to describe RoR.

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02-21-2013, 11:47 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?
I can just as easily say this board falls in love with their home-grown players FAR too much for what they are.

Other teams are asking. Not many teams have what Colorado is looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
develop JT, probably will be a similar player...

Richards, Stepan, JT, Lindberg (SEL) lets BUILD OUR TEAM FROM WITHIN not keep trading core guys that have been developing with the same players for years now.. it got us here why start fixing something thats not broken..
At a certain point choices have to be made on where to spend the teams money under the cap.

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02-21-2013, 11:51 AM
  #331
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No real argument to back up opinion = tell everyone they like shiny toys.

Del Zotto is a #4 defenseman, at most. He will get paid 5+ on his next contract.

O'Reilly is a #2 shut down center. He may get paid the same.

Which of these is more valuable? Erroneous, because that's all opinion. Fact is their skill level is equal value.

The only issue is needing to bring back another defenseman who can log minutes. That's why Tyson Barrie's name is brought up.

Del Zotto + Boyle + 3rd + 2nd tier prospect
O'Reilly + Barrie

Rangers lose nothing. O'Reilly replaces what Boyle provides defensively and improves the team offensively up front. Barrie replaces what Del Zotto brings offensively, and with more mobility. Rangers have three 3rd round picks (four if they fail to reach the Stanley Cup Finals), and enough top and second tier prospects.

The Value is there, positionally, financially, and skill.

And Holy Christ...stats do NOT make an argument. Hockey is played for a far greater amount of time while no points are being scored. What do players provide while that's happening? That's why Gaborik is a ****ing brutal hockey player. He does nothing between the moments separated by weeks when he scores a goal or a couple in bunches.

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02-21-2013, 11:52 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?
No one said DZ is trash. That's a straw man.

What was said is the truth, that he'll never be in the top 3 here because of the other defensemen we have, and that most nights he's on the bottom pairing.

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02-21-2013, 11:55 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I personally don't think you've watched much of ROR. Just an opinion.


I love these arguments, either agree with me or we are not watching the same thing.
People cannot possibly disagree.

People disagree for many reasons on the same thing they see, feel, taste, smell or value.
Different standards, different values, different backgrounds.
Here is my opinion, I don't think you have watched RoR at all if you think he is a 1C. I don't think you have even checked his stats, you are just relying on what people write on this board.

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02-21-2013, 11:57 AM
  #334
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Philly and Bruin GM's were chatting last night...Philly looking for D and Boston has a few . Maybe they want Adam McQuaid...tough and fits the Flyer organization well .

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02-21-2013, 11:58 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I am not reaching



Just compare the words you used to describe DZ vs the words you used to describe RoR.
I can change RoR's description to brutal offensively if you want. But an 18 year old playing bottom 6 minutes putting up 26 points in his rookie year doesn't scream brutal offensively to me...

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02-21-2013, 12:01 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post


I love these arguments, either agree with me or we are not watching the same thing.
People cannot possibly disagree.

People disagree for many reasons on the same thing they see, feel, taste, smell or value.
Different standards, different values, different backgrounds.
Here is my opinion, I don't think you have watched RoR at all if you think he is a 1C. I don't think you have even checked his stats, you are just relying on what people write on this board.
You can think whatever you want, just like I could.

Fact is, there is more than 1 person here questioning if you've ever watched ROR.

There are multiple people here stating that ROR's value is greater than MDZ, even if it's slightly.

In the fairytale, delusional world you live in, you seem to think the 3rd most valuable LHD on our roster, who will never be a top-pairing dmen, is more valuable than a #2 Center who's capable of wrecking havoc defensively, and has the hands and the offensive swagger to hit 60+ points without question.

With the uncertainty with Richards career here (based on his performance and contract), Boyle's lack of offensive swagger, and our defensive-depth, I think ROR's value on this team long-term can and will be greater than MDZ's.

And I never, ever, even once suggested ROR's going to be a 1C. Don't put words in my mouth.

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02-21-2013, 12:04 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
No real argument to back up opinion = tell everyone they like shiny toys.

Del Zotto is a #4 defenseman, at most. He will get paid 5+ on his next contract.

O'Reilly is a #2 shut down center. He may get paid the same.

Which of these is more valuable? Erroneous, because that's all opinion. Fact is their skill level is equal value.

The only issue is needing to bring back another defenseman who can log minutes. That's why Tyson Barrie's name is brought up.

Del Zotto + Boyle + 3rd + 2nd tier prospect
O'Reilly + Barrie

Rangers lose nothing. O'Reilly replaces what Boyle provides defensively and improves the team offensively up front. Barrie replaces what Del Zotto brings offensively, and with more mobility. Rangers have three 3rd round picks (four if they fail to reach the Stanley Cup Finals), and enough top and second tier prospects.

The Value is there, positionally, financially, and skill.

And Holy Christ...stats do NOT make an argument. Hockey is played for a far greater amount of time while no points are being scored. What do players provide while that's happening? That's why Gaborik is a ****ing brutal hockey player. He does nothing between the moments separated by weeks when he scores a goal or a couple in bunches.
He was real brutal last year too.

****ing christ, just admit the bias against Gaborik already.

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02-21-2013, 12:04 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Good argument, and I would add that DZ is stuck behind McD and Staal on the left side. Trading him for a righty PMD makes a lot of sense.
My argument is simple, DZ is more valuable than RoR.
Besides the fact that DZ is a 40 point scoring PMD, which is a premium position, he is signed and RoR is not.
If they want to trade RoR and Barrie/Elliott for DZ + pick, I would be all over it.
i see what you're saying for sure. I have been waiting so long and clamoring for any type of solid PMD to be built through this system. MDZ is as close to that as it's been and going to get (at least for the near future) He's valuable to most any team right now and rightfully so. My side of all of this, is that a player like ROR is hard to come by (same as a young PMD) but is also something we need more right now. Del Zotto just isn't playing up to par where we need him to play right now. (on the PP for example) If he was making smart plays and putting up points and improving our PP I might be singing a different tune, but we need a guy like ROR right now and again, it's just a matter of giving something valuable in return for something valuable. Del Zotto isn't playing on the top pairing and losing him (in my opinion) is worth it for ROR because Girardi, Staal, McDonagh, even Stralman is impressive. If they want a D-Man and ask for Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, we say "hey now" and walk away pretty quickly, but MDZ is more expendable because the things we want from him just simply aren't happening to a degree which makes us say "no" when we're talking about bringing a guy like ROR here. It's honestly a matter of opinion and I can see where you're coming from, but in the world of "give to get" it's worth it for ROR. He would be loved here.

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02-21-2013, 12:04 PM
  #339
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Sorry if I'm redundant or not making sense in that post, I was being talked at and trying to concentrate on what i was writing and listen at the same time.

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02-21-2013, 12:10 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And Holy Christ...stats do NOT make an argument. Hockey is played for a far greater amount of time while no points are being scored. What do players provide while that's happening? That's why Gaborik is a ****ing brutal hockey player. He does nothing between the moments separated by weeks when he scores a goal or a couple in bunches.
Brutal hockey player? That's being a little over-dramatic.

He's no Callahan, that's for sure, but he's not a liability when he's on a drought.

40G scorers who are 'ok' defensively aren't brutal. I actually recall you praising him a few times last season which makes me wonder what your damage is when it comes down to Gaborik.

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02-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #341
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I guess I'm not seeing the defensive depth that some others are.

Beyond the current top 4 we have Stralman as the only real and legit NHL player today.

McIlrath is in the system and MAY develope into a nice bottom pairing defenceman.

Skjei is not the 4th best defenceman on his college team right now. Who the hell knows which direction he move in developmentally.

Where is this defensive depth we are supposed to have?

I look at the Rangers defence beyond the top 4 and I see more questions than answers.

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02-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #342
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O'Reilly is 22. DZ is 23. How is O'Reilly the shiny new toy? Two good young players.

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02-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
He was real brutal last year too.

****ing christ, just admit the bias against Gaborik already.
may not have been brutal last year, but he has been thsi year.

that cannot be disputed.

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02-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #344
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may not have been brutal last year, but he has been thsi year.

that cannot be disputed.

He needs to be more consistent. Its still a fact that hes coming off of shoulder surgery. His shot looks good at times and like **** at times.

I wouldnt say 3 game winners is necessarily brutal. Take out those three wins and where are we?

We all know what Gaborik is, so why is it always a big production or a shock when hes streaky?

I dont think he had one hat trick last year and he ended up with 41 goals. The most consistent goal pace hes ever had. Literally every other game.

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02-21-2013, 12:17 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
O'Reilly is 22. DZ is 23. How is O'Reilly the shiny new toy? Two good young players.
C'mon RB, if you like any other player than the Rangers you have "shiny New Toy Syndrome"

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02-21-2013, 12:17 PM
  #346
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He needs to be more consistent. Its still a fact that hes coming off of shoulder surgery. His shot looks good at times and like **** at times.

I wouldnt say 3 game winners is necessarily brutal. Take out those three wins and where are we?

We all know what Gaborik is, so why is it always a big production or a shock when hes streaky?

I dont think he had one hat trick last year and he ended up with 41 goals. The most consistent goal pace hes ever had. Literally every other game.
He's got 8 of his 11 points in a 3 game span almost a month ago. 5 of his 7 goals were scored in those same 3 games.

The rest of the season he's been Claude Rains.

And it's not a matter of being streaky. It's a matter of being a presence while on the ice. Points will be there, he has proven that time and again. It's not always about the points. Its about being a consistent presence and creating opportunities whether they go in or not is not the point.

Nash doesn't have to score, or get an assist, but you know he's out there generating chances. Gaborik doesn't provide that, or at least 15 games in, he hasn't provided that aside from less than a handfull of games.

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02-21-2013, 12:17 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You can think whatever you want, just like I could.

Fact is, there is more than 1 person here questioning if you've ever watched ROR.

There are multiple people here stating that ROR's value is greater than MDZ, even if it's slightly.
And there are plenty of people here and elsewhere who disagree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
In the fairytale, delusional world you live in, you seem to think the 3rd most valuable LHD on our roster, who will never be a top-pairing dmen, is more valuable than a #2 Center who's capable of wrecking havoc defensively, and has the hands and the offensive swagger to hit 60+ points without question.
I call it the real world, not sure what world you live in.
DZ can be a top pairing Dman on many teams, except this team. Where do you think he will play if he is traded to the Avs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
In the fairytale, delusional world you live in, you seem to think the 3rd most valuable LHD on our roster, who will never be a top-pairing dmen, is more valuable than a #2 Center who's capable of wrecking havoc defensively, and has the hands and the offensive swagger to hit 60+ points without question.
Same guy who had the offensive swagger to score 26 and 26 points his first 2 years, then rocketed to 55 (not 60+) last year because he was playing with Landy?

Sure.

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02-21-2013, 12:18 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
O'Reilly is 22. DZ is 23. How is O'Reilly the shiny new toy? Two good young players.
Yeah. I've completely lost track of the counter-argument here. If there ever was one to begin with.

Trade from strength to fill a need. Makes sense. If you can get a viable D-man back in the deal as well, it makes even more sense. If that d-man is a potential top-4, PPQB that plays the right side? No brainer.

People can debate the money all they want, but it's all speculation. Have yet to see any tangible evidence that ROR cannot be an excellent #2 right now and perhaps has #1C upside.

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02-21-2013, 12:18 PM
  #349
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I guess I'm not seeing the defensive depth that some others are.

Beyond the current top 4 we have Stralman as the only real and legit NHL player today.

McIlrath is in the system and MAY develope into a nice bottom pairing defenceman.

Skjei is not the 4th best defenceman on his college team right now. Who the hell knows which direction he move in developmentally.

Where is this defensive depth we are supposed to have?

I look at the Rangers defence beyond the top 4 and I see more questions than answers.
I don't disagree, but consider this:

When Staal went down last season, we managed.

If Richy or Stepan go down, we're ******.

When you break down our roster, upcoming salaries, I just think ROR makes a little more sense short term, and long-term than MDZ.

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02-21-2013, 12:21 PM
  #350
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Philly and Bruin GM's were chatting last night...Philly looking for D and Boston has a few . Maybe they want Adam McQuaid...tough and fits the Flyer organization well .
He would be an upgrade for NYR and would be a good mentor when McIlrath gets here...


McQuaid and Campbell to NYR
Boyle Bourque and 2ed in 2014 and 3rd (FLA)

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