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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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Old
02-21-2013, 01:22 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He's got 8 of his 11 points in a 3 game span almost a month ago. 5 of his 7 goals were scored in those same 3 games.

The rest of the season he's been Claude Rains.

I dont think hes played particularly bad though. Hes gotten great chances and is great around the net. Hes a streaky player. He will get the hot hand again.

Those were important games. Every game is in a shortened season.

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02-21-2013, 01:25 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Nash doesn't have to score, or get an assist, but you know he's out there generating chances. Gaborik doesn't provide that, or at least 15 games in, he hasn't provided that aside from less than a handfull of games.

He actually does more than you think. Gaborik is great down low in tight areas with vision and puck movement. Quite underrated IMO.

Nash is the fancy stickhandler bull in a China shop player. Of course everyone notices his chances.

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02-21-2013, 01:25 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Brutal hockey player? That's being a little over-dramatic.

He's no Callahan, that's for sure, but he's not a liability when he's on a drought.

40G scorers who are 'ok' defensively aren't brutal. I actually recall you praising him a few times last season which makes me wonder what your damage is when it comes down to Gaborik.
He has 4 points in the last 10 games and is -3 in that span.

Doesn't skate, doesn't engage, doesn't back check. Has been benched a few times. The Power Play is brutal. He doesn't kill penalties. He's not a liability?

And to answer the previous question, It's pretty clear I am biased against hockey players who refuse to play hockey unless they are within a few feet from the net, un molested, and have the puck. And?

If this team is going to wait around for him to be a guy who leads them to where they want to go, they're going to be waiting a long time.

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02-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Thanks a million! Says a lot, when a guy is holding out and will probably get traded and you still see a post like this. Do you see him being a consistent 60-65 point guy in his career? We can't expect much more from Richards and he's not that great defensively.
It's really hard to say. Last season he played with a rookie Landeskog who is obviously very good, but they started out as a checking line used basically for their hustle. They had Dan Winnik on the wing who played well with them, but can not convert goal scoring opportunities for his life. When Downie came over, prior to blowing out his shoulder, the line was very dominant. It was easily the Avs top line, and they went head to head against the other top lines and did great. If ROR can put up 50+ points playing with guys, who like O'Reilly are more determination than skill, then I could see him breaking 60+ with skilled wingers. I don't know who the Rangers would want him to play with, but there is so much talent on your roster it is hard to see him not excelling. Whether he does it consistently? Who knows. Olli Jokinen went from hitting 100 points to being a 50 points guy. Mike Richards now looks like a ~50 point centerman. Things could happen that prevent him from doing it consistently, but I don't see his determination and work ethic ever deteriorating, so I would put my bet on him staying at least around 50 points and having a much better season here and there, while obviously still being a very valuable player when he isn't putting up points. Him and Callahan together could give defencemen nightmares.

I think most Avs fans would gladly welcome him back, even if he sat out the whole year. If we could have it our way, Stastny would get traded an O'Reilly would be signed long term (provided that we needed to trade a centerman).

This of course is just my opinion. I think most agree he will just keep getting better since he is only 21 years old. If you want something based a little more on facts then HockeyProspectus has a decent article on him.

Here's a snippet:

Quote:
Turning to history to help plot his career path, the list of the most statistically comparable players at his age actually include Mark Messier and Joe Thornton. The closest match is probably Troy Murray, a strong defensive-minded, penalty-killing, playmaking, faceoff-winning forward for the Chicago Blackhawks throughout the 1980s, who won the 1996 Stanley Cup with the Avs in the twilight of his career. Murray, who was far more physical and had a much better shot, won the Selke Trophy as the league's top defensive player at age 23, something we wouldn't be surprised to see matched by O'Reilly.

As for scoring, both of the two most popular statistical projection systems (VUKOTA and Snepsts) have him down for an exact repeat of his 55 points, but with a potentially much higher long-term upside.
Hopefully that helps answer your question a bit. Of course its all almost opinion based though.
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Good write-up, Avs71. An informed opinion is always welcome around here!
Thank you.

On a separate note, I saw it mentioned in here that the Rangers would need a window to negotiate with O'Reilly before a trade went through. If I'm not mistaken, the Rangers could talk to him today and find out what he would sign for if they traded for him, seeing as he is a "free agent." So if a trade went down, I would think he would sign almost hours after being acquired.

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02-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #355
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There's a difference in saying he's playing brutally in the last 10 games, or even this season, and he's a brutal hockey player.

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02-21-2013, 01:28 PM
  #356
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EDM will have to give away Whitney for free and pay half his salary to move him at this point. From: @jirelandEJ
Sent: Feb 21, 2013 1:21p

Ryan Whitney scratched again to make room for Theo Peckham. Devan Dubnyk starts for #Oilers in net.

sent via txt
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02-21-2013, 01:28 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
He actually does more than you think. Gaborik is great down low in tight areas with vision and puck movement. Quite underrated IMO.

Nash is the fancy stickhandler bull in a China shop player. Of course everyone notices his chances.
Nash skates, he back checks, he hits, he can play in all situations, his effort is noticeable. He's a factor when he's on the ice, every time he's on the ice.

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02-21-2013, 01:29 PM
  #358
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Are we going after Gaborik again? You guys must be yanking my chain at this point. If not, then there isn't much point arguing it.

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02-21-2013, 01:30 PM
  #359
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The biggest argument I can see being made against the deal (even if I don't agree with it) is the team chemistry / roster turnover issue.

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02-21-2013, 01:30 PM
  #360
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ROR is a free agent. Any team can speak to his agent Mark Guy. Same agent as DZ.

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02-21-2013, 01:31 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He has 4 points in the last 10 games and is -3 in that span.

Doesn't skate, doesn't engage, doesn't back check. Has been benched a few times. The Power Play is brutal. He doesn't kill penalties. He's not a liability?

And to answer the previous question, It's pretty clear I am biased against hockey players who refuse to play hockey unless they are within a few feet from the net, un molested, and have the puck. And?

If this team is going to wait around for him to be a guy who leads them to where they want to go, they're going to be waiting a long time.

Disagree. I dont see it at all. I follow Gaborik almost every shift he plays. Especially backchecking.

He doesnt kill penalties. Well lets break this one down. First off, look at the personnel other than Gaborik. Theyre much better suited for killing penalties, no? Secondly, do you even want Gaborik killing penalties? Hes not great at shot blocking.

I got a team with Nash, Boyle, Stepan, Callahan, Powe, etc. and im worried about Marian Gaborik not on the PK? Same goes for Richards.

PP is brutal because of the coaching and because our two PP QBs arent as urgent with the puck.

Why the **** does Sullivan not have Gaborik on the off wing setting up for one timers?

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Old
02-21-2013, 01:32 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Yeah. I've completely lost track of the counter-argument here. If there ever was one to begin with.

Trade from strength to fill a need. Makes sense. If you can get a viable D-man back in the deal as well, it makes even more sense. If that d-man is a potential top-4, PPQB that plays the right side? No brainer.

People can debate the money all they want, but it's all speculation. Have yet to see any tangible evidence that ROR cannot be an excellent #2 right now and perhaps has #1C upside.
Totally agree. No one is saying to trade for him no matter what. But if the deal makes sense, many are not opposed to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
He would be an upgrade for NYR and would be a good mentor when McIlrath gets here...


McQuaid and Campbell to NYR
Boyle Bourque and 2ed in 2014 and 3rd (FLA)
Doubt the Bruins move Campbell. They love him there, as they should. He fights, forechecks well, heart and soul player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
EDM will have to give away Whitney for free and pay half his salary to move him at this point. From: @jirelandEJ
Sent: Feb 21, 2013 1:21p

Ryan Whitney scratched again to make room for Theo Peckham. Devan Dubnyk starts for #Oilers in net.

sent via txt
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/jirelandEJ/status/304657068588142592
I'd take him at half his salary as a bottom-pairing guy for this season only. Cheap reclamation project? Sather hates those.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Nash skates, he back checks, he hits, he can play in all situations, his effort is noticeable. He's a factor when he's on the ice, every time he's on the ice.
Exactly. He is a difference-maker. That is what a 7 million dollar a year player should look like on a nightly basis.

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02-21-2013, 01:33 PM
  #363
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i see what you're saying for sure. I have been waiting so long and clamoring for any type of solid PMD to be built through this system. MDZ is as close to that as it's been and going to get (at least for the near future) He's valuable to most any team right now and rightfully so. My side of all of this, is that a player like ROR is hard to come by (same as a young PMD) but is also something we need more right now. Del Zotto just isn't playing up to par where we need him to play right now. (on the PP for example) If he was making smart plays and putting up points and improving our PP I might be singing a different tune, but we need a guy like ROR right now and again, it's just a matter of giving something valuable in return for something valuable. Del Zotto isn't playing on the top pairing and losing him (in my opinion) is worth it for ROR because Girardi, Staal, McDonagh, even Stralman is impressive. If they want a D-Man and ask for Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, we say "hey now" and walk away pretty quickly, but MDZ is more expendable because the things we want from him just simply aren't happening to a degree which makes us say "no" when we're talking about bringing a guy like ROR here. It's honestly a matter of opinion and I can see where you're coming from, but in the world of "give to get" it's worth it for ROR. He would be loved here.
I respect that point of view.
I don't think RoR is "needed", what is needed is Richards to get his head out of his ass and start playing up to his salary. $12 Million and playing like crap, geez.
RoR would solidify the team down the middle for years to come, I completely see the value there. I disagree on the price to get it.

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02-21-2013, 01:34 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Exactly. He is a difference-maker. That is what a 7 million dollar a year player should look like on a nightly basis.
Lemme ask you this, whats more of a difference maker? Gaborik's 3 Game winners or Nash's $7.8 million play other than scoring?


Last edited by Heyoooo*: 02-21-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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02-21-2013, 01:39 PM
  #365
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Lemme ask you this, whats more of a difference maker? Gaborik's 3 Game winners or Nash's $7.8 million play other than scoring?
I'll take (3) Nash's over (3) Gaborik's because I believe Nash will be more of a difference maker in the tight checking games come playoff time.

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02-21-2013, 01:43 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I'll take (3) Nash's over (3) Gaborik's because I believe Nash will be more of a difference maker in the tight checking games come playoff time.

Thats fine. Ill take the proven player that puts up the goal/point total relative to his salary.

I love Nash, but hes still gotta prove himself goalwise and pointwise. I do not care about his defense, shot blocking, etc. We need goals. In fact, at 7.8, he should be scoring more than Gaborik.

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02-21-2013, 01:45 PM
  #367
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Thats fine. Ill take the proven player that puts up the goal/point total relative to his salary.

I love Nash, but hes still gotta prove himself goalwise and pointwise. I do not care about his defense, shot blocking, etc. We need goals. In fact, at 7.8, he should be scoring more than Gaborik.
7.5 compared to 7.8 is that large of a difference?

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02-21-2013, 01:49 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
7.5 compared to 7.8 is that large of a difference?

If youre $300,000 over/under of a cap, sure.

Just getting technical since everyone else around here writes with such specifics.

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02-21-2013, 01:50 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Thats fine. Ill take the proven player that puts up the goal/point total relative to his salary.

I love Nash, but hes still gotta prove himself goalwise and pointwise. I do not care about his defense, shot blocking, etc. We need goals. In fact, at 7.8, he should be scoring more than Gaborik.
Let me ask you, have you watched Nash play?


Nothing against your post Heyooo, just could not resist.

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02-21-2013, 01:52 PM
  #370
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So has anyone other than Dater confirmed that the Rangers are interested in ROR?

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02-21-2013, 01:53 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Let me ask you, have you watched Nash play?


Nothing against your post Heyooo, just could not resist.


To be fair, he does lead the team in points and plays hard.

Still, at 7.8, youre not judged on that. Youre a goal scorer.

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02-21-2013, 01:54 PM
  #372
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trade for O'Reilly, buy out Richards, and sign a defensemen to replace Del Zotto and a forward for the price of just Richard's cap hit. Would that work?

so basically we shed Ricahards contract (that even if he turned it around will not live up to it for more 6 more years), and lose Del Zotto, but gain ROR, a top 4 dman (who?), and a forward.

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02-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #373
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Like for instance, could we shed Richards deal, trade Del Zotto for ROR, and turn Richards cap hit into Corey Perry lol.

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02-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #374
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And there are plenty of people here and elsewhere who disagree with that.



I call it the real world, not sure what world you live in.
DZ can be a top pairing Dman on many teams, except this team. Where do you think he will play if he is traded to the Avs?



Same guy who had the offensive swagger to score 26 and 26 points his first 2 years, then rocketed to 55 (not 60+) last year because he was playing with Landy?

Sure.
DZ is not a top pairing guy on any team with legit Cup aspirations today...

Oh, you mean when he was 19 and 20? Where's the criticism when MDZ was an utter disgrace in year 2? Both guys have come around and grown as players. You're free to believe that MDZ has more value, but you've stuck your heels in the groud into too much of a 1 sided argument.

I honestly don't think you've ever really watched RoR.. nothing wrong with that except when you pretend you have..

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02-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #375
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To be fair, he does lead the team in points and plays hard.

Still, at 7.8, youre not judged on that. Youre a goal scorer.
That's very black and white. Even if judging him based solely on goals made any sense, it's still only been 15 games.

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