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Joe Sacco hate

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:04 PM
  #1
Realm
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Joe Sacco hate

Why do MOST Avs fans want Joe Sacco fired and think he is a bad coach? I am not saying you are wrong but from the outside I dont get it. This roster is terrible especially with the injuries. I think its a miracle they are a .500 team right now and not sure how anyone could expect them to have a better record than they do.

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02-21-2013, 03:09 PM
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Patmac40
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His name misled them into thinking he was going to be the "Joe Sakic" of coaches.

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02-21-2013, 03:09 PM
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Their GM isn't doing a great job of putting a winning team on the ice, I must say. They have some really good pieces, but lack D and depth.

That being said, they're hit hard with injuries, and the ROR debacle isn't exactly helping, either. Sacco is a pretty bad coach, though, from my limited viewing.

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02-21-2013, 03:12 PM
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I'm not an Avs fan, but was a season ticket holder of their minor league team for a couple years. When Sacco became coach of the Avs I celebrated because he would no longer be the coach of the Monsters, who seemed completely disorganized and without a plan while he was coach.

I haven't watched many Avs games, but can totally understand why Avs fans would want him gone.

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02-21-2013, 03:15 PM
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Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Their GM isn't doing a great job of putting a winning team on the ice, I must say. They have some really good pieces, but lack D and depth.

That being said, they're hit hard with injuries, and the ROR debacle isn't exactly helping, either. Sacco is a pretty bad coach, though, from my limited viewing.
Actually Sherman and his staff are doing a pretty good job.

Sacco on the other hand is the most clueless coach in the league, Hunwick leading all d-men in TOI back when EJ was healthy pretty much ends all argument about Sacco and his incompetence.

As for their record, Duchene and Varlamov are the biggest reasons Avs aren't blow out of the water in every game since EJ went down.


Last edited by Ivan13: 02-21-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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02-21-2013, 03:19 PM
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He doesn't have enough Super Bowl rings.

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02-21-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Their GM isn't doing a great job of putting a winning team on the ice, I must say. They have some really good pieces, but lack D and depth.

That being said, they're hit hard with injuries, and the ROR debacle isn't exactly helping, either. Sacco is a pretty bad coach, though, from my limited viewing.
Lol what? Sherman has been amazing. Go look at our 2008-2009 roster and the present one without injuries. You will see a huge difference.

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02-21-2013, 03:21 PM
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Basically Sacco has no real strategy for anything...and he also tends to use players incorrectly (Duchene on wing last year/Duchene on the point for the PP, Hunwick with over 20 min TOI/Hunwick on the PK, etc...), or if a line doesn't work right away he'll start juggling without letting them get chemistry. Pretty much the only reason he had success in 09-10 season was because he was riding a hot Craig Anderson, since then he's been unsuccessful with this team.

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02-21-2013, 03:24 PM
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Shanahanigans
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I'm an Oilers fan and I love facing Joe Sacco's Avs. I've never seen a game plan from them, or any semblance of a system. Pretty much relies on Duchene and McGinn (along with Lando/O'Rielly/Downie last year) to score, and Johnson, Wilson and Varlamov on the back end and in net. The rest of the team is literally useless. I think he's the worst coach I've ever seen at the NHL level.

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02-21-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Lol what? Sherman has been amazing. Go look at our 2008-2009 roster and the present one without injuries. You will see a huge difference.
Even healthy, I see no D depth. You have one top-pairing quality defender, and a bunch of 2nd and third pairing tweeners, assuming they're NHL quality at all.

That being said, he's made some good trades. Varly was a great pickup, as was Downie. You're not going to win in this league without D though.

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02-21-2013, 03:29 PM
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Amazing comic book writer, btw

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02-21-2013, 03:30 PM
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My own take - which should not be taken as representative of Avs fans generally - is that Sacco is not really a systematic thinker. In other words, he pays less attention to details and strategy and directs his attention to things like effort, work, discipline, attitude, etc.

For example, it seems like our assistant coaches, at least defensive ones, have a great deal of discretion when it comes to picking matchups and systems. It's only indirect evidence at best, but the kind of offensive opportunities Shattenkirk got vs. to what Barrie or Elliot gets, choice of zone starts year to year, consistency with matchups, the man-to-man thing that went on under Lefebvre as compared to now, etc are all suggestive of this to me as they track changes in our assistants.

On the offensive side, we've played open, run-and-gun hockey like we did his first year and trap-style tight checking hockey like most of the past 2 years. This year, we've broken out a 2-1-2 aggressive forecheck with the defensemen pinching often that's been a welcome change.

Certainly, it could be Sacco behind all of those decisions, but I wonder if he's just delegating a lot of that.

What's consistently frustrating with Sacco are his poor in-game management and odd personnel and lineup choices. I also think we play very naive hockey, especially on offense and have during his entire tenure. He should take a lot of the blame for Stastny's drop is scoring.

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02-21-2013, 03:30 PM
  #13
dahrougem2
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So OP, I take it you're not an Avs fan? All one needs to do is look no further than the Avs' record under Sacco against the NW Division; its utterly atrocious.

He does not make any adjustments, at all, that benefit the team. If he does, its something stupid like playing Duchene on the 4th line or on wing, or moving Chuck Kobasew inth the top 6, or as another poster stated giving Matt Hunwick the most ice time for defenseman, even with other players there like Erik Johnson and Jan Hejda.

Make one mistake, and you're in the dog-house. Just ask Matt Duchene last season, or Chris Stewart, or T.J. Galiardi, or Wojtek Wolski, or Craig Anderson, or John-Michael Liles, the list goes on and on and on.

He FORCES his style upon all of the players, his stupid dump and chase style. That'd be perfectly fine with me if we had the roster to do it, but we don't. Matt Duchene, P.A. Parenteau, Paul Stastny, these guys aren't dump and chase players. He seems to have given Duchene a little freedom this season to be more creative and you see the results? He's having the best season of his career especially if this were an 82 game season, he'd be on pace for 93 points. People always wonder why Paul Stastny has regressed. Its no shock that 3 of his top 4 seasons came while Sacco wasn't coaching, and the other great season was Sacco's first season.

He loves him some grinders. If Sacco could have an entire team of Ryan O'Reilly's, he would ask management to do that in a heartbeat. Coaches should not show favourtism but he most certainly does to the players who play his muck it up style, which drives me insane. There's a certain aspect called skill, you might need it, hence the freedom Duchene requires and is getting this season

He's the reason Craig Anderson was traded. I need not say more about that one

There's a reason Kyle Quincey made those disparging remarks on his way out; it wasn't towards the players, maybe it was towards management but my money is on it being towards Sacco

He's in his 4th season as a coach now, his 1st season they shockingly made the playoffs on the back of Craig Anderson. 2nd season, they sucked and finished with the 2nd overall pick. 3rd season, they were in the hunt late but ultimately didn't make the playoffs. Now this 4th season, if they don't make the playoffs and he stays, then Avs management clearly has no intent to win

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02-21-2013, 03:31 PM
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Sacco sucks. The Avs don't play anything that resembles a system - at least a coherent one. I'm not complaining, though - the Avs have been the Canucks' biggest source of points for the last couple of years.

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02-21-2013, 03:34 PM
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Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
So OP, I take it you're not an Avs fan? All one needs to do is look no further than the Avs' record under Sacco against the NW Division; its utterly atrocious.

He does not make any adjustments, at all, that benefit the team. If he does, its something stupid like playing Duchene on the 4th line or on wing, or moving Chuck Kobasew inth the top 6, or as another poster stated giving Matt Hunwick the most ice time for defenseman, even with other players there like Erik Johnson and Jan Hejda.

Make one mistake, and you're in the dog-house. Just ask Matt Duchene last season, or Chris Stewart, or T.J. Galiardi, or Wojtek Wolski, or Craig Anderson, or John-Michael Liles, the list goes on and on and on.

He FORCES his style upon all of the players, his stupid dump and chase style. That'd be perfectly fine with me if we had the roster to do it, but we don't. Matt Duchene, P.A. Parenteau, Paul Stastny, these guys aren't dump and chase players. He seems to have given Duchene a little freedom this season to be more creative and you see the results? He's having the best season of his career especially if this were an 82 game season, he'd be on pace for 93 points. People always wonder why Paul Stastny has regressed. Its no shock that 3 of his top 4 seasons came while Sacco wasn't coaching, and the other great season was Sacco's first season.

He loves him some grinders. If Sacco could have an entire team of Ryan O'Reilly's, he would ask management to do that in a heartbeat. Coaches should not show favourtism but he most certainly does to the players who play his muck it up style, which drives me insane. There's a certain aspect called skill, you might need it, hence the freedom Duchene requires and is getting this season

He's the reason Craig Anderson was traded. I need not say more about that one

There's a reason Kyle Quincey made those disparging remarks on his way out; it wasn't towards the players, maybe it was towards management but my money is on it being towards Sacco

He's in his 4th season as a coach now, his 1st season they shockingly made the playoffs on the back of Craig Anderson. 2nd season, they sucked and finished with the 2nd overall pick. 3rd season, they were in the hunt late but ultimately didn't make the playoffs. Now this 4th season, if they don't make the playoffs and he stays, then Avs management clearly has no intent to win
Craig Anderson was the reason Craig Anderson got traded.

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02-21-2013, 03:37 PM
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He's just a guy in a suit standing up and occasionally saying something. That's basically the extent of his contributions to the Avs.

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02-21-2013, 03:37 PM
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mostly it is because Sacco only knows one way to coach a team and has shown very little room for flexibility despite poor results. He was a hard-nosed player in his time in the NHL and demands that type of aggression from his players. His forecheckers dump the puck constantly in order to start an attack, which is one of the least efficient means of scoring goals (clicky). His backcheckers have no real defensive system other than covering whichever man has the puck, making it quite easy to gain the Colorado zone and begin a play.

His choices of players to put on the ice further reflect this poor decision-making, since he continually dresses goons and scrubs over moderately talented NHL players. The best example I can show you is that of Patrick Bordeleau, goon extraordinaire, who has played every Colorado game this season. Note this video of Bordeleau against Bisonette:

where Bordeleau's linemates have gotten the puck deep and managed to get it to the slot, a place where pretty much any NHL player will have a high quality scoring chance, he was in the neutral zone starting a fight. Ridiculous waste of a potential asset to an NHL team. Sacco has also dressed Cody McLeod three years running despite McLeod being abjectly poor at every facet of hockey including fighting. That David Koci ever played an NHL game for the Avalanche is further proof of Sacco's (and, in fairness, the GM's) ineptitude. He kept Matt Hunwick, who played the worst defense I have ever seen an NHL defenseman play, on the roster instead of a decent player in Jonas HolÝs because Hunwick was LD while HolÝs was RD. He played Kevin Porter (who? exactly) on the point of the PP and put a 36 year old Chuck Kobasew on the top line.

I will say that there are several things that Sacco deserves credit for. Under his tenure every single one of Colorado's vaunted young players (including but not limited to Chris Stewart, Matt Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly, TJ Gagliardi, David Jones, Brandon Yip [briefly], Ryan Wilson, Kevin Shattenkirk, Stefan Elliott, Tyson Barrie, and Gabriel Landeskog) has reached or exceeded expectations. I don't think many other coaches could have developed young talent as well as Sacco has done. However, since Duncan Siemans is likely the only real prospect left that looks to be an impact player going forward for Colorado, it is necessary to get a coach with better skills than nurturing rookies. In the same vein, I will complement Sacco in that, unlike a coach like Quenniville, he knows how to create a line where players have chemistry and rarely shuffles up lines that are slumping. Likewise, he has only shown to have a "goalie controversy" once, when JS Giguere was playing quite well and Varlamov was playing pretty poorly. Otherwise, he lets the designated starter play the majority of games.

Sacco is a good coach for a team that needs to get out of the basement. He's not a good coach for a team that needs to move on to its next step in contending for a Cup by assigning a system and responsibilities on both sides of the ice for each player. Since he only knows one way to instruct a team, furthermore, he can quickly become a square peg in a round hole.

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02-21-2013, 09:41 PM
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dahrougem2
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Craig Anderson was the reason Craig Anderson got traded.
No, Joe Sacco mishandling Craig Anderson was the reason Craig Anderson got traded

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02-21-2013, 10:18 PM
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Av's should hire Ron Wilson

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02-21-2013, 10:20 PM
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Would love to see life coach Brian O'Reilly behind the AV's bench.

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02-21-2013, 11:06 PM
  #21
ColoradoAvs
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I guess because he only has one style of play.
As much as I love Avs fans SOME of them just find ways to blame Sacco for everything, A player gets injured it's Sacco's fault, A player sucks it's because Sacco has sucked all his confidence.

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