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Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:02 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I agree with that completely.

I don't think obtaining a long-term replacement D from COL is the answer. I think it could be done this off-season however. If they can get someone to fill-in the rest of this year, that's fine with me. I honestly don't think this is their year anyway.

To me this is a move for the future overall, not this year.
So you're basically ready to strip down the roster. Starting with getting rid of the team's biggest point producer from the blue line, and I'd imagine your next step would be getting rid of Brad Richards after this season. I think a lot of people have the same thoughts. Personally, Im surprised people could be so reactionary after 15 games, but hfboards has taught me that no week, no game, no shift, is too little to make knee-jerk reactions and plans.

Enter O'Reilly, which basically leaves us with 2A and 2B centers, and no MDZ.

In my opinion, that brings the team even further away from the goal line.

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02-21-2013, 06:08 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you're basically ready to strip down the roster. Starting with getting rid of the team's biggest point producer from the blue line, and I'd imagine your next step would be getting rid of Brad Richards after this season. I think a lot of people have the same thoughts. Personally, Im surprised people could be so reactionary after 15 games, but hfboards has taught me that no week, no game, no shift, is too little to make knee-jerk reactions and plans.

Enter O'Reilly, which basically leaves us with 2A and 2B centers, and no MDZ.

In my opinion, that brings the team even further away from the goal line.
Strip down the roster? No.

If Richards continues to play like he is now, you won't have to worry about what I would or would not do. He'll play himself right in to a buyout since he is the only guy it would make sense to use it on. I like Richards, loved him in Dallas. I want him to succeed here just as much as I want DZ to, but when players do not meet expectations, and you have a way to remove them while improving the team, I think you explore those options.

It's not knee-jerk, because even if this team was 15-0-0, I would be considering this move. Unless somehow DZ started to look like EK up in Ottawa.

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02-21-2013, 06:10 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you're basically ready to strip down the roster. Starting with getting rid of the team's biggest point producer from the blue line, and I'd imagine your next step would be getting rid of Brad Richards after this season. I think a lot of people have the same thoughts. Personally, Im surprised people could be so reactionary after 15 games, but hfboards has taught me that no week, no game, no shift, is too little to make knee-jerk reactions and plans.

Enter O'Reilly, which basically leaves us with 2A and 2B centers, and no MDZ.

In my opinion, that brings the team even further away from the goal line.
Who said anything about trading Staal?

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02-21-2013, 06:12 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Strip down the roster? No.

If Richards continues to play like he is now, you won't have to worry about what I would or would not do. He'll play himself right in to a buyout since he is the only guy it would make sense to use it on. I like Richards, loved him in Dallas. I want him to succeed here, just as much as I want DZ to, but when players do not meet expectations, and you have a way to remove them, while improving the team, I think you explore those options.

It's not knee-jerk, because even if this team was 15-0-0, I would be considering this move. Unless somehow DZ started to look like EK up in Ottawa.
I enjoy how the benchmark for a playmaking defenseman has become Erik Karlsson who, when all is said and done, will be a generational player. If those are the parameters you are measuring by, be prepared to be disappointed by whoever the Rangers bring in to fill that role for the next decade +.

Maybe Ill consider this trade if O'Reilly was more like Sidney Crosby.

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02-21-2013, 06:13 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Who said anything about trading Staal?
We'll talk again in April and let me know where those #'s are.

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02-21-2013, 06:14 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I enjoy how the benchmark for a playmaking defenseman has become Erik Karlsson who, when all is said and done, will be a generational player. If those are the parameters you are measuring by, be prepared to be disappointed by whoever the Rangers bring in to fill that role for the next decade +.

Maybe Ill consider this trade if O'Reilly was more like Sidney Crosby.
Fair enough, that was an exaggeration. I just want him to look like an actual PMD.

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02-21-2013, 06:20 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Fair enough, that was an exaggeration. I just want him to look like an actual PMD.
Del Zotto was a top 20 scoring defenseman last season, while playing a much more complete game than many of the guys above him.

Im not even saying Del Zotto is a great PMD - but I am saying hes going to be very, very difficult to replace. Much moreso than anyone begging for this trade is leading on.

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02-21-2013, 06:22 PM
  #458
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Yeah, the more I think of it, the more I don't want ROR.

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02-21-2013, 06:28 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Counting the team he never played for? Flimsy at best. Can you point me to that quote where the Rangers actually said that about him, or are you just misinterpreting Tortorella saying he can't eat Girardi's minutes?

The rumor reported was that the pieces added to Del Zotto was a "non-starter." Not that Del Zotto himself was a non-starter.
The team he never played for because they cut him out of training camp. A team that at the time had a horrendous defense. Yeah. That team.

I'm not misinterpreting Torts' quote at all, btw. You can find it earlier in this thread, where he clearly said that they obviously don't want Stralman playing that many minutes. And the rumor reported was that Stepan and Del Zotto were non-starters. Not a package of Del Zotto and whatever the + was--Stepan and Del Zotto, as players, were non-starters.


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I've watched plenty of him, thanks. You realize that "generating offense" doesn't necessarily result in points, correct? He makes a great breakout pass and rushes the puck better than Del Zotto wishes he could. In the last 5 games, he's played fewer than 20 minutes one time, but actually had more shifts. Not sure that's evidence that his minutes have been going down in a negative way, especially considering he's taking the same number of shifts.
That player would not be in the NHL on a team with a half-decent defense. He's not a bad player--he has potential, and I could see him maxing out as an average 2nd pairing guy, but he's not in the same stratosphere as Del Zotto. He'll be lucky if he turns out like Tyutin.


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I never said it's "easy" to replace him, I'm saying his contributions are overrated. People weren't clamoring for PMD because they wanted more points from the blue line, they wanted someone who could run the PP. Del Zotto hasn't proven capable of doing that thus far.

Sorry, you lost me when you said Miller is a adequate 3rd line center for a contending team.
You think he could be replaced by a rookie on his first cup of coffee in the NHL. So no, you did not literally write out "he would be easy to replace" but you imply it with every post you make. Ten years--one guy managed to do it, and you want to trade that one guy for another lotto ticket. You're like Peter Griffin with the mystery box.

And Miller, while not ideal, is fine for right now. His offense isn't all there, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how composed he is defensively and in the faceoff circle. I'd be nervous if the playoffs started today, but I'm confident that in a couple of months, he would be an acceptable option. Not as good as O'Reilly, to be sure, but Miller and MDZ gives us a better chance to win than Miller and O'Reilly in my view.

Quote:
Easy to put words in people's mouths I guess.
It's called applying your logic to other situations. You don't seem to believe your own argument when it doesn't suit you. What should that tell you about the validity of that argument?


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He fell in the draft because he was a lousy skater at that age. I'm assuming he was voted the 3rd best playmaker in the OHL East that year by the coaches poll because they felt bad for him? Del Zotto fell because he couldn't play a lick of defense. He improved in that regard, so I don't see any reason that ROR continuing to improve his offense is some incredible mountain to climb. Especially when he's proven he can do it.
He fell in the draft because he was a lousy skater (and he's still not great at that part of the game) and because his goal totals went DOWN in his second year in juniors, and because he didn't have a noticeable jump in overall production in his second year in juniors. In short--he fell because of his offense. Why do I question whether he can improve that offense? Easy--I love heart and soul players. There are not many better kinds of player in my mind. That said, heart and soul players with top-shelf talent are better. O'Reilly has never really had that talent offensively. As Kent Wilson (Calgary based hockey writer) noted in his pre-draft analysis of O'Reilly--it's great to hear that a player has intangibles--but when that's ALL you keep hearing about a player, it raises red flags.


Quote:
Last year he did have Stepan's offense, and hit 50 points at a younger age than Stepan. Where exactly did I said he was better than Richards? Oh, that's right. Nowhere.
At a younger age? They are a few months apart. You're really reaching now. As for where you said he was better than Richards, it was right in your post. You said, and I quote: "ROR steps in today and he's likely in a deadlock with Stepan as our best center." Are you quibbling on the word "likely" or what? You said it. You even bolded "today."


Quote:
Oh, right. The whole "he rode Landeskog's mojo" thing.
I can't figure out why you guys can't see this one. This is the one point where it looks the same whether you are basing your argument on the stats OR watching the games. Stat-wise: You have a player noted for being offensively limited. Drafted as a defensive specialist. Spends two years in the league as a defensive specialist. Third year in the league, he's suddenly putting up 2nd line production. He doubles his previous career high. How often do you see numbers jump like that?! Answer--you don't. Development is nearly always incremental. What changed? One thing--Landeskog got stapled to his wing.

Now watch the games to see exactly what I'm talking about. Landeskog is a bulldozer on offense. He creates chaos around the crease. The vast majority of O'Reilly's assists to Landeskog are not plays that he "created." O'Reilly would give the puck to Landeskog and Landeskog would create a goal. O'Reilly would fan on a shot, and Landeskog would find a way to put it in on a goal-mouth scrum. It happened over and over again. Landeskog figured into about half of O'Reilly's points. The fact that you refuse to see that is baffling. I hate this HFBoards attack trope, because I think it is used entirely too often, but if you just watch a few of the games from last year it would be easy to see.

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02-21-2013, 06:46 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
They never cease to amaze me either.

What single attribute is Del Zotto great at? Im talking something irreplacable.
And what single attribute is RoR "great" at? Do tell but I'm sure itll come with a biast opinion because he's young and scored 50+ points. I'm
sure he's great at defense or great play making right? At least in your eyes. And youve probably seen him play once? twice? Yet del zotto who has scored 40+ points and all happens to be young, even the same age, is mediocre. Its comical.


And I am not sitting here claiming RoR sucks but he is being blown up like hes a must have toy during christmas. I don't see those incentives to move MDZ at 22 on a solid contract for a guy who could very well come here and put up similar numbers to Stepan. Coupled with it forces you to move at least Gaborik or Richards or both. And to go along with this teams biggest problem being too many new faces as it is.

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02-21-2013, 06:53 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Del Zotto was a top 20 scoring defenseman last season, while playing a much more complete game than many of the guys above him.

Im not even saying Del Zotto is a great PMD - but I am saying hes going to be very, very difficult to replace. Much moreso than anyone begging for this trade is leading on.
As smnoeil (however he spells it) pointed it out it strongly appears as though the majority here pining for RoR are slighting del zotto to justify moving him and claiming he is so easily replaceable. Its disturbing.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:57 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
As smnoeil (however he spells it) pointed it out it strongly appears as though the majority here pining for RoR are slighting del zotto to justify moving him and claiming he is so easily replaceable. Its disturbing.
You can just call me Scott (my user name is just my first and middle initials followed by my last name--not super creative, but whatever, haha).

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02-21-2013, 07:08 PM
  #463
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Can you point me to that quote where the Rangers actually said that about him, or are you just misinterpreting Tortorella saying he can't eat Girardi's minutes?
Here is the article and the quote.
It is nice that Stralman can fill in for injury when he has to, but he certainly appears to be 3rd pairing dman.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ran...-of-dan-girard

Quote:
“I tried to fill (Girardi’s) defensive part of the game. I don’t think I quite lived up to that, but I think I played some good hockey and some good minutes,” Stralman said Sunday morning, adding that the increased minutes were an adjustment but not foreign, since see saw some significant ice time during his previous two-year stint with Columbus.

John Tortorella wasn’t exactly satisfied with the experiment, though he sprinkled in compliments when asked how he felt Stralman handled the minutes.

“Ehhhhhhhhhhhh,” the Rangers coach said before Sunday night’s game. “That’s a guy that has grown on me. He competes, but it was a lot of minutes for him. We’re hoping we won’t have to do that with him … But with Danny out, it put a lot of pressure on people … I think it’ll help (Stralman) in the long run as far as conditioning, but we’re comfortable how we divvy them up when we have our full six.”

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02-21-2013, 07:15 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Not sure, but I'd give one of the 3rd rounders for him. His only issue when he was here was that he was expected to be a 2nd line center when he was never more than a 3rd. He's an older guy, but he still has a very good track record at winning faceoffs and he's been on postseason runs.
My recollection too, plus he still has enough jump in the legs, it seems, even if a step slower from years ago. Third or fourth C, only this year rental or maybe a depth guy also into next year, seems worth it if the price is right.

Third enough or do we have to add small time?

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02-21-2013, 07:18 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We'll talk again in April and let me know where those #'s are.
You uh. Not too good with the sarcasm huh? I get it though, you're on a roll, go do your thing.

p.s. if by some chance Staal leads him in points by the end of the season, you're totally hearing from me. <---That means sarcasm.

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02-21-2013, 07:32 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
"ROR will never have Stepan's offense"

Umm...55 points to 51 last year, on a much worse team, playing with a lesser offensive winger than Stepan, who played with Gaborik for a large part of the year.

B-b-b-********.
If I thought ROR was worse than Stepan I wouldn't want to trade MDZ for him either.

The problem with that logic is that ROR is likely a good bit better than Stepan.

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02-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #467
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What's ROR requesting money wise? Even if we did trade MDZ for him (which I definitely do not want), we'd still have to sign the guy, and IIRC he's asking for more than he's worth.

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02-21-2013, 07:42 PM
  #468
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If I thought ROR was worse than Stepan I wouldn't want to trade MDZ for him either.

The problem with that logic is that ROR is likely a good bit better than Stepan.
And that would be based on what, exactly? Stepan has scored more points in fewer games at the same age. RO'R is better defensively, while Stepan is better offensively (particularly his shot). The only season RO'R put up points even close to Stepan was last year, where I've already explained why those point totals are worthy of an eyebrow raise. Frankly, if Stepan were Canadian and O'Reilly were American, I don't think you'd see a single person trying to make the argument that RO'R was the better player. So aside from the fact that you really really want him to be better, what actual argument do you have? Wise-ass "clever" comments don't qualify.

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02-21-2013, 08:17 PM
  #469
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I don't think DZ is easily replaceable. I do think he's going to have to be replaced no matter what, so if we can maximize his value today, we should do it.

And also, people need to stop pointing to the quote on Stralman. Because the guy can't replace our top RDs minutes apparently means that he can't replace Del Zottos? Makes total sense.

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02-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #470
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Team needs a shakeup. don't care what it is but it needs it. soon.

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02-21-2013, 11:05 PM
  #471
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You guys are crazy if you think ROR would turn into a #1 center with this coach and system.

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02-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #472
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You guys are crazy if you think ROR would turn into a #1 center with this coach and system.
Yeah but since DZ will never be a #1 PPQB PMD in this system, it's a wash. Trade!

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02-22-2013, 12:44 AM
  #473
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Dubinsky and Anisimov.......Do they ever come back?

Simple question here. Do we ever see them again?

I was for the acquisition of Rick Nash, however, I am now beginning to think that what we gave up, we did not replcace.

When do their contracts expire.......and does sather try to bring either of them back?

Does anyone here actually want either of them back?

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02-22-2013, 12:47 AM
  #474
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No...

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02-22-2013, 12:51 AM
  #475
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They're solid players, but they got replaced with Nash, Kreider, Pyatt, and Miller. All of those guys are new so it's still too early to judge the replacements.

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