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GMs to discuss size of goalie equipment

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #201
Dado
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Originally Posted by gormo View Post
Expanding the net sounds gimmicky and problematic.
Why? They are an arbitrary size now. After the change, they would be a less arbitrary size. This strikes me as being a step in the direction of less gimmicky, not more gimmicky.

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02-21-2013, 06:02 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
- Make the trap illegal
How would that be enforced?

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02-21-2013, 06:05 PM
  #203
Morgoth Bauglir
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How would that be enforced?
Teams must use a minimum of two forecheckers. Violation is a two minute bench minor. Or use some variation of illegal defense such as the NBA has had for decades.

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02-21-2013, 06:15 PM
  #204
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Teams must use a minimum of two forecheckers. Violation is a two minute bench minor. Or use some variation of illegal defense such as the NBA has had for decades.
That's ridiculous! It'd make the game way too overly complicated!

And it'd impose a particular playstyle on teams. I mean, their adversaries hated it, but the Lightning's 1-3-1 strategy allowed them to beat better teams in the playoffs a few years ago.

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02-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #205
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
That's ridiculous! It'd make the game way too overly complicated!
Like basketball is "overly complicated"? Just how simple do you want the game? Soccer on ice? No thanks.


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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
And it'd impose a particular playstyle on teams.
Tough. I'd rather have happy fans and POed coaches then the other way around.


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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
I mean, their adversaries hated it, but the Lightning's 1-3-1 strategy allowed them to beat better teams in the playoffs a few years ago.
Far from applauding that crap, Tampa's coaches should have been shot for perpetuating an abomination before God and Man.

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02-21-2013, 06:26 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Like basketball is "overly complicated"? Just how simple do you want the game? Soccer on ice? No thanks.




Tough. I'd rather have happy fans and POed coaches then the other way around.




Far from applauding that crap, Tampa's coaches should have been shot for perpetuating an abomination before God and Man.
Basketball dropped illegal defense a few years ago.

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02-21-2013, 06:27 PM
  #207
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Basketball dropped illegal defense a few years ago.
And they're suffering for it. 90-86 games anyone?

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02-21-2013, 06:41 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post

Far from applauding that crap, Tampa's coaches should have been shot for perpetuating an abomination before God and Man.
I'm sure that's a totally unbiaised and fair opinion comming from a perfectly neutral Capitals fan...

The fact of the matter is that I'm against imposing a particular style of play. Also, the reason Soccer is boring (but not THAT boring) is because of the ridiculous offside rules that impose a particular style of play!

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02-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #209
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Why not make the nets smaller and allow goalies to wear 4X8 sheets of plywood?

Sound dumb? So would having the current amount of net to shoot at if you were starting from scratch.

Our forefathers knew what they were doing when they designed the game and that left a reasonable challenge for the shooter and goalie.

Today's defencemen, and forwards for that matter, wear more equipment than goalies did for the majority of time hockey has been played. Back when they had to protect the net and their heads and necks....which they now use to cover even more of the net.

Decide how much equipment is needed to play safe (One could argue it is pretty close now) and decide what would make a competitive sized net. Few would pick the present size. Add the amount to the present net to get back the extra blocked area and it would be about right IMO.

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02-21-2013, 06:47 PM
  #210
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
I'm sure that's a totally unbiaised and fair opinion comming from a perfectly neutral Capitals fan...
From a Caps fan who criticised the hell out of Dale Hunter's six goalie "system".


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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
The fact of the matter is that I'm against imposing a particular style of play. Also, the reason Soccer is boring (but not THAT boring) is because of the ridiculous offside rules that impose a particular style of play!
Soccer is boring because there isn't any scoring and basically NOTHING happens all freaking game long.

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02-21-2013, 06:48 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Soccer is boring because there isn't any scoring and basically NOTHING happens all freaking game long.
And that's because of the offside rules (you cant go beyond the second to last defender), that is ridiculous!

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02-21-2013, 06:50 PM
  #212
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And that's because of the offside rules (you cant go beyond the second to last defender), that is ridiculous!
No, it's because a. It's a slow as ******* game to begin with and b. teams spend all game long trying to play keep away instead of trying to score.

Bottom-line, I'd rather have a vasectomy with a rusty ice pick than watch a soccer game.

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02-21-2013, 11:25 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Why? They are an arbitrary size now. After the change, they would be a less arbitrary size. This strikes me as being a step in the direction of less gimmicky, not more gimmicky.
Are the nets in the NHL arbitrarily sized? I figured they were all 6 by 4, and I wouldnt understand why there would be any variation.

If you extend the dimensions of the net, I think you may in turn be forcing the goaltenders to re-learn how to play their position to a significant degree.

I think it would cause more problems then it might be intended to solve. Its a radical change.


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02-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by gormo View Post
Are the nets in the NHL arbitrarily sized? I figured they were all 6 by 4, and I wouldnt understand why there would be any variation.

If you extend the dimensions of the net, I think you may in turn be forcing the goaltenders to re-learn how to play their position to a significant degree.

I think it would cause more problems then it might be intended to solve. Its a radical change.
So? People don't seem to have problems with shooters having to re-learn how to play their positions.....you know, like how to score on dudes wearing twice as much crap as they used to and blocking twice as much of the goal.


Last edited by Morgoth Bauglir: 02-22-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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02-22-2013, 12:29 AM
  #215
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Are the nets in the NHL arbitrarily sized? I figured they were all 6 by 4, and I wouldnt understand why there would be any variation.
The choice of 6x4 was arbitrary.

Moving to a new size based on in-game experience is considerably less arbitrary, by definition.

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02-22-2013, 01:25 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
That's ridiculous! It'd make the game way too overly complicated!

And it'd impose a particular playstyle on teams. I mean, their adversaries hated it, but the Lightning's 1-3-1 strategy allowed them to beat better teams in the playoffs a few years ago.
The NBA and NFL don't seem to have any problem with outlawing defensive schemes. They are ultra-successful leagues that understand what fans want though, so I guess they shouldn't be compared to the NHL.


Last edited by Tough Guy: 02-22-2013 at 01:32 AM.
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02-22-2013, 05:51 AM
  #217
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It's okay the way it is now.

The only things I would change is bring in European icing. (not the stupid hybrid rule)
Look at safe alternatives to the body armour players are currently using for shoulder, elbow and chest protection.
If it was feasible European size ice but that isn't going to happen.

While we're at it. Get rid of the delay of the game penalty for shooting the puck over the boards. Maybe force arenas to increase the height of the glass. Oh and rescind the rule you can't change lines after an icing.

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02-22-2013, 11:24 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Teams must use a minimum of two forecheckers. Violation is a two minute bench minor. Or use some variation of illegal defense such as the NBA has had for decades.
I don't like the idea of the referees' judgment being even more involved in the outcome of a game than it is today.

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02-22-2013, 11:38 AM
  #219
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I'm still saying it's the equipment. It's too big and too hard. Goalies and players.
It has turned the players into weapons of concussion making destruction.

Are they really faster than they used to be?
Would a fast skater from the 80's be considered slow in today's NHL?

I'm not certain but I think the players seem faster because they play knowing they're encased in armor. There's a certain amount of fear that's left the game. Which has caused a loss of respect for the dangers of the game itself.

What I do believe is the game is figuratively sick. There's something fundamentally or whatever you call it that's taking the excitement out of the game.

They can't hit each other because they end up hurting each other.
most fighting is pre meditated which isn't nearly as entertaining.
Goals are rare.
Scoring chances are seldom.
Goalie saves aren't exciting because they're anticipatory rather than reactionary.
Clutch and Grab is back.
Reffing is inconsistent.. more scrutinized.. probably just a ton harder to do than before.

The Philly Pittsburgh game the other night was friggin awesome.. as usual. I will watch those two teams play any time.

The Colorado St.Lous game I didn't watch. was the 1-0 overtime game more exciting?

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02-22-2013, 12:06 PM
  #220
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How do you make line changes if you have to use two forecheckers? Do we also can changing on the fly?

There are way to many open issues with this suggestion. Need to sed a comprehensive proposal before even taking this seriously.

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02-22-2013, 12:16 PM
  #221
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It's also much easier to call illegal defense in basketball because there's less movement on an NBA court. You also already have the lines needed to define the zone in question. Are we going to paint a giant box in the middle of the zone and say that at no point in time can you have more than 1 guy there? What about when the puck is loose for a split second? Too complicated, IMO. The officials already have enough on their plate.

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02-22-2013, 12:20 PM
  #222
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Why do some want to make drastic changes?

I don't get this we have to change to attract more fans. Screw that, if they (you) don't like the game w/o significant changes, why should we change for you?

Hey, here's an idea, eliminate the goalies, turn the nets facing the end boards, eliminate off sides and bring in a rover.

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02-24-2013, 07:27 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by gormo View Post
Are the nets in the NHL arbitrarily sized?.. If you extend the dimensions of the net, I think you may in turn be forcing the goaltenders to re-learn how to play their position to a significant degree. I think it would cause more problems then it might be intended to solve. Its a radical change.
No, they are not, but thats a sermon in & of itself. [mod edit] and enlarging the nets is radical, and I agree, in fact the very thought draconian & impracticable resulting in a lowering of the bar. If you dont like the Butterfly now, be prepared to see it on steroids with a bigger net. "Cheating" is nothing new, or as they say in some hockey circles at virtually every position "if your not cheating your not trying". Post 72 when the Soviets taught our best a lesson or five, the game itself has changed so dramatically, from playing the Lanes to one of constant Cycle, Goalies forced deeper into their creases, the Butterfly is the only effective way to stop the puck in what has effectively become a game of Puckchenko. You cant play Stand-Up, as the passing game in constant flux with even defencemen jumping into the circling would result in you, the Goalie standing out there watching the opposition scoring empty netters behind you youd be so far out of position.

Tony Esposito was the first to go full on "Cheat", a transitional goaltender. He reads the rule book, "gloves cannot exceed 9"'s" with no dilineation between Blocker & Trapper, measures his Trapper & discovers its only 4.5"'s wide open, gets out the coroplast & some leather, adding another 4.5"'s to its width. And for good measure, gets about 14"'s of fabric & mesh added to the crotch of his pants. Perfectly legal. Plenty followed until manufacturers caught on & started making gear themselves exactly like that. Mike Richter's pads had an extra 3"'s added to the width from the bottom cuff to to the top of the 2nd strap, measurements for legality taken mid to top, always passing with flying colours. Like a pair of bell bottom pants. Goalies have always cheated, its nothing new.

Now, Im old school, and no, I'm not overly enamoured with the Butterfly, but what are they supposed to do? Youve got every player with a carbon fibre stick, and tell ya what? Even in the hands of some slug the quick release, accuracy & weight, as in it being a "heavy" (goalies will understand that term) shot devastating to the body. You just dont have the same set-up time as you did in the 80's through the early 90's, let alone the 50's through 70's. The VH pads are insane, the entire purpose of the what should be outlawed thigh-risers being to close the 5 hole. So devise a rule that limits that to 2"'s above the bottom of the pant hem. Sidewalls on blockers are used to great effect, eliminate those as well, lets say 1.5" max; same thing on trapper cuffs, including going back to a max 4.5" open-wide spread. Chest & arm/shoulder-pads standardized, light, form fitting, no extensions into free space & air allowed.

Playing the Butterfly is unbelievably taxing on the body as it quite simply was not made to move like that. Were seeing torn MCL's, guys requiring hip replacements at 35; the early on-slaught of arthritis in 20yr olds. Get rid of the trapezoid, encourage them to play out a bit & wander while simultaneously moving the goal lines & nets back to the pre-Gretzky "Office" marks, with less room behind the nets, more out front. The return to common sense. Its unfortunate that the NHL as the stewards of the game affecting its play & direction simply dont get any of this, after all, the "casual fan" just wants to hear Sirens Blaring & see Lights Flashing, about the last thing a Coach who wants to keep his job wants to hear, but there ya go. Nothin a few tweaks wont cure, reversing ill thought out decisions. But c'mon here, enlarging the nets? Throw the record book out the window? Hasnt the league already messed up history enough for you in its callous disregard of the past & precedence?


Last edited by Dado: 02-24-2013 at 07:43 PM. Reason: personal digs
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