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Nigel Dawes

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Old
07-13-2006, 08:17 AM
  #26
Fletch
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If Pronger was moved for...

Dawes and Tyutin, and stayed healthy along with Jagr and Shanny and Lundqvist, the Rangers actually may be a cup-contending team this season. I'm not advocating a trade, but am stating an opinion on what I believe Pronger brings to the table.

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07-13-2006, 08:27 AM
  #27
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maybe, fletch...but they seem to lack the centers to be a real considered contender. Not saying they couldn't win the cup with the lineup you stated, but I don't think people would consider them contenders because they'd say they were too weak in certain areas.

I'd also question the depth on defense if Tyutin was gone too

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07-13-2006, 08:47 AM
  #28
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Bringing in Pronger......

for Tyutin doesn't hurt depth too much, I don't think, since net deletion to the defense would be zero. I agree about the centerman position, but I think the wingers make up for what's lacking at center. It seemed to be defense and wingers that dominated the Rangers against the Devils and to a certain extent, I think one can say the same thing for the Oilers, led by guys like Hemsky and Smyth and Pronger and Smith.

My one caveat was the health of these people. I do agree that the Rangers do not currently have the depth, but don't necessarily agree that adding a defenseman and subtracting a defenseman hurts that depth.

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07-13-2006, 09:54 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You don't believe in the skills competition or you don't believe Dawes couldn't win one.

You lost me a little on that one.
I meant I believe Dawes could win a skills competition, he has a good accurate shot. I was also surprise to see that he also has an extremely quick release on that.

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07-13-2006, 11:38 AM
  #30
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I meant I believe Dawes could win a skills competition, he has a good accurate shot. I was also surprise to see that he also has an extremely quick release on that.
Maybe, but personally not sure if it'd beat a goalie long range at the NHL level.

I guess what I really meant is that Dawes probably will never have the best any one skill at the NHL level (including shot) compared to his teammates, yet he still might be a very good NHL'er.

Messier was like that (not comparing the two). There was always someone faster, always someone bigger, stronger, etc. on the team. But he somehow was the leader and a centerpiece.

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07-13-2006, 11:57 AM
  #31
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I agree Edge....

if I'm reading you properly. Dawes isn't going to score a lot of goals from beyond the faceoff circle. He's going to have to find a way to muscle his way in closer and still get off a nice shot. That's where I thought he struggled last preseason (I don't think I'd expect much more from a 5'8" 20 year old though).

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07-13-2006, 12:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
if I'm reading you properly. Dawes isn't going to score a lot of goals from beyond the faceoff circle. He's going to have to find a way to muscle his way in closer and still get off a nice shot. That's where I thought he struggled last preseason (I don't think I'd expect much more from a 5'8" 20 year old though).
In a nutshell.

And ironically his success at the AHL last year grew as he realized more and more he was going to have to get closer. That happens to almost every kid coming out of juniors. They're used to scoring goals from out a little bit and they have to learn to get closer. It's nothing knew it's happened for years.

Some players adapt to that and progress, some can't or just don't have the skills to pull it off. Dawes def. took an encouraging first step.

This kid is going to really surprise people who don't follow the Rangers. It's easy to notice the offensive production but i don't think people really get just how energetic and hard working Nigel is. It amazed me when he dropped so far in his draft year.

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07-13-2006, 12:21 PM
  #33
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Same thing with Lundmark..

but Lundmark never seemed to work hard enough to get those good shots off.

That's the positive thing about Dawes. As you and jas have said, this kid just succeeds at every level, he also improves. Perhaps he's a smart kid that keeps working hard and trying new things. Perhaps coaching (or even watching) helped him too. It takes a while to build the confidence to risk the pummeling one may get as a result of trying to score an NHL goal. I'm excited to see what he can do (and will experiment to see if I can get AHL games clearer on my computer as I'd like to see more of him this year).

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07-13-2006, 12:23 PM
  #34
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being 5'8 can do that I guess...and like you said, he doesn't have the most amazing skills with which to catch a scouts eye. He just gets the job done

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07-13-2006, 12:25 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
but Lundmark never seemed to work hard enough to get those good shots off.

That's the positive thing about Dawes. As you and jas have said, this kid just succeeds at every level, he also improves. Perhaps he's a smart kid that keeps working hard and trying new things. Perhaps coaching (or even watching) helped him too. It takes a while to build the confidence to risk the pummeling one may get as a result of trying to score an NHL goal. I'm excited to see what he can do (and will experiment to see if I can get AHL games clearer on my computer as I'd like to see more of him this year).
Lundmark didn't seem to be willing to do that, even though it was usually doing that which got him on the scoreboard.

Good examples of players who needed to adjust are Adam Graves and Ryan Smyth (again not making a comparison). As they learned, they got better.

I remember reading an article from 97 where the Oilers coach talked about Smyth came out of camp trying to score points from 20 feet out like a lot of junior kids and had to learn to move in closer.

Some players can't quite pull it off for a variety of factors, but unless you're a world class talent that's usually what you have to learn.

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07-13-2006, 01:05 PM
  #36
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It's downright scary...

as you get closer to the net. I don't blame some of those guys from shying away from there.

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07-13-2006, 01:07 PM
  #37
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well the good thing for dawes is even though he's short, he's stocky and has a low center of gravity. he can take a bit of punishment...

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07-13-2006, 01:51 PM
  #38
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Being short and stocky can work for you. Look at Fleury, he was a midget but still could play tough and compete. I'm not saying Dawes = Fleury, but you can make a comparison based on size.

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07-13-2006, 02:05 PM
  #39
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Nobody disagrees, Thordic...

but for every Fluery, there are 100 Don Biggs's. If you click on some juniors stats you'll see a lot of names with decent points, even leading their respective teams, and who were undrafted - and then you go to height and weight, and immediately you know partially the reason why.

We're all in Dawes' corner. The kid works hard and continues to improve. We all hope to see him at some point in this coming NHL season (although seeing him may not be a good thing since it could mean an injury, but that's the NHL). And hopefully, come the year after, we'll see a lot more of him.

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07-13-2006, 02:17 PM
  #40
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the encouraging thing is that Dawes made the transition to a pro career very well. he didn't come into the AHL and bomb out his first year because his stats were inflated as a junior player. goes a long ways in my mind towards proving his size won't hold him back

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07-13-2006, 03:08 PM
  #41
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Oh, I agree, nothing is set with him. And I never was saying he is a Fleury (Fleury put up ridiculous numbers in the WHL if I remember correctly).

But I think with his work ethic and continued improvements, he has shown he can adapt. A lot of players fail for that reason, and his size just makes it worse. But like everyone keeps pointing out, he works his tail off to elevate his game wherever he has played so far. A lot of us are excited to see what he can do in the NHL.

Which may be dissapointing. A lot of rangers fans have been watching him come up and have been very high on him since we drafted him, and may have unreasonable expectations from him. Only time will tell.

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07-13-2006, 04:35 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
maybe, fletch...but they seem to lack the centers to be a real considered contender. Not saying they couldn't win the cup with the lineup you stated, but I don't think people would consider them contenders because they'd say they were too weak in certain areas.

I'd also question the depth on defense if Tyutin was gone too

If you got Pronger to replace Tyutin, how would that effect the depth on D?

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07-13-2006, 04:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
In a nutshell.

And ironically his success at the AHL last year grew as he realized more and more he was going to have to get closer. That happens to almost every kid coming out of juniors. They're used to scoring goals from out a little bit and they have to learn to get closer. It's nothing knew it's happened for years.

Some players adapt to that and progress, some can't or just don't have the skills to pull it off. Dawes def. took an encouraging first step.

This kid is going to really surprise people who don't follow the Rangers. It's easy to notice the offensive production but i don't think people really get just how energetic and hard working Nigel is. It amazed me when he dropped so far in his draft year.

Dawes is why I don't re-sign Rucinsky. Give me a third line of Dawes-Cullen-Ward.

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07-13-2006, 04:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
If you got Pronger to replace Tyutin, how would that effect the depth on D?
I'm just looking at it in regards to a contender. with Pronger and subtracting Tyutin, the defense would be improved, obviously. But behind Pronger you'd still have what amounts to a rather unspectacular group. With Tyutin, you'd at least have someone who has the potential to be more than a run of the mill defenseman.

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07-13-2006, 07:13 PM
  #45
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Dawes is why I don't re-sign Rucinsky. Give me a third line of Dawes-Cullen-Ward.
If it was up to me I'd do it.

Don't know if Dawes will be quite ready yet but he's close.

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07-13-2006, 09:05 PM
  #46
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I'd sign rucinsky so we can get another 2nd round draft pick for him at the deadline.

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