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Bouwmeester expected to net the Flames a "hefty" return

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:37 PM
  #226
Eastside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I think if you get Bouw out of Calgary he might surprise some people.
I think we heard the same thing about Florida a few years back.

I think a return would hinge on how much salary the Flames were willing to retain/take back in a bad contract. If its nothing, I wouldn't expect much more than a 2nd. Maybe a late first. Nobody is going to give up assets for an overpaid player with the cap going down. Teams are going to need guys out-performing their contracts, not the other way around.

If the Flames were willing to take a bad contract back, then obviously the return goes up a bit.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:42 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by nitz View Post
A first rounder and a good prospect. Not the Kovalchukian return you're dreaming of.
The "Kovalchukian return" was what? A late 1st, a decent 2nd pair d-man (Oduwya), and a suspect prospect (Swedish player, I forget his name)? Not exactly close what the OP is thinking IMO.

I agree with most. 1.3 years of J-Bo @ 6.5M is probably worth a 1st rounder, a good/decent prospect, and a roster player.

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02-21-2013, 03:47 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
The "Kovalchukian return" was what? A late 1st, a decent 2nd pair d-man (Oduwya), and a suspect prospect (Swedish player, I forget his name)? Not exactly close what the OP is thinking IMO.

I agree with most. 1.3 years of J-Bo @ 6.5M is probably worth a 1st rounder, a good/decent prospect, and a roster player.
Cormier was a fairly highly touted prospect at the time, Bergfors was high risk/high reward, IIRC.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:49 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
Troll as you might, none of your stated concerns is a real issue. Not only can the Flames retain salary if need be, but as Bouwmeester only has a year left on his contract after this one, term is not an issue, unlike with Campbell who had a high cap hit AND lengthy term left.

Bouwmeester will net a good return if moved. Unlike HF, GM's aren't prejudiced against players simply because they wear a Flames jersey's.
Avoiding the "self persecution/martyr" tone of the thread, I think that most are saying that J-Bo will net a good return (1st/"nice" prospect/ roster player). From what I've seen though, they're just saying that the OP's proposal (2x 1st, blue chip prospect, roster player) is WAY optimistic.

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02-21-2013, 03:50 PM
  #230
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I wouldn't give up Ryan Carter for J-Bow. He's soooooooooo overated and for someone who's taged as having some solid offensive instincts, his #'s are pretty brutal. His contract really doesn't help his cause either.

He reminds me of Paul Martin when he used to play for the Devils and PM couldn't fetch the return that is suggested in the past couple of pages and especially not what was proposed in the opening post.

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02-21-2013, 04:03 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I wouldn't give up Ryan Carter for J-Bow. He's soooooooooo overated and for someone who's taged as having some solid offensive instincts, his #'s are pretty brutal. His contract really doesn't help his cause either.

He reminds me of Paul Martin when he used to play for the Devils and PM couldn't fetch the return that is suggested in the past couple of pages and especially not what was proposed in the opening post.
He's been playing awesome this year, but I'm willing to bet you haven't seen him play at all (but you will probably tell me you have, which wouldn't make sense given his play thus far).

Despite your irrational hate for him he's a top-pairing, puck-moving, smooth-skating, big minute defenseman.

Those types of defensemen don't grow on trees. Unfortunately for you, if Bouw is traded, he will return siginificantly more than what you want to see him traded for.

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02-21-2013, 04:18 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
He's been playing awesome this year, but I'm willing to bet you haven't seen him play at all (but you will probably tell me you have, which wouldn't make sense given his play thus far).

Despite your irrational hate for him he's a top-pairing, puck-moving, smooth-skating, big minute defenseman.

Those types of defensemen don't grow on trees. Unfortunately for you, if Bouw is traded, he will return siginificantly more than what you want to see him traded for.
Outside of this year, you are absolutely correct... I haven't seen him play a single second. But if were a Gm, I wouldn't overpay for a small sample size like what, 12 games... when he's been very average since joining the Flames.

Someone will probably overpay, just hoping it's not Lou and I'm crossing my fingers it'll be the Holmgren or Sather

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
Maybe Gord Miller was unaware that Burke was relieved of his duties and is no longer the TML GM.

Let's take a look at the tale of the tape. Bouwmeester's statline to date:

Scoring: 7 points - tied for 30th best among d-men
Hits: 14 - tied for 105th best among d-men
Blocked shots: 24 - tied 66th best among d-men
Takeaways: 2 - tied for 116th best among d-men
Giveaways: 12 - tied for 19th worst among d-men

Factor in the $6.68M salary cap hit which runs through next season ...

calculating ...

No. Boewmeester is not worth 2 1st rounders, a blue chip prospect and a young player.
Mins: 25:01/gm, 17th among D.
Mins, ES: 20:20/gm, 6th among D.
+/-: -3, on a team that is -11. (actually pretty positive)

Re-calculate

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:31 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
bouwmeester for Seguin


You make my head hurt. What team do you really cheer for and please stop trolling the Flames. It's way obvious.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:39 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowzie View Post
Wouldn't call someone who plays 25 mins a night and hasn't missed a game in like 8 years, soft.
Just because I'm absolutely SHOCKED this hasn't been included yet:



EDIT: It's supposed to be the Mike Peca absolutely destroying J-Bo on TSN, but I'm flipping ignorant and can't insert the link correctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqof09PxEmM


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-21-2013 at 07:47 PM. Reason: fixed youtube
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Old
02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Cormier was a fairly highly touted prospect at the time, Bergfors was high risk/high reward, IIRC.
Good correction, I forgot all about Cormier. But the point still stands, a rental Kovalchuk only returned the following:

Late 1st round DP
Oduya - a decent roster player
Cormier - a solid prospect (I wouldn't have called him "blue-chip" at the time though)
Bergfors - a suspect player who was out of the NHL within a year (but had played decently as a rookie, so a bounce back was possible).

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:52 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
bouwmeester for Seguin
Only if we add our next 5 first round picks.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:59 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL44 View Post
Mins: 25:01/gm, 17th among D.
Mins, ES: 20:20/gm, 6th among D.
+/-: -3, on a team that is -11. (actually pretty positive)

Re-calculate
Re-calculating ...

Still NO. All thing considered, Boewmeester is not worth 2 #1 draft picks, a blue chip prospect and a young player.

Do you disagree and think Boewmeester is worth the return posted in the OP?

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:34 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Thank you. We're not talking about lottery picks here. Mid-to-late 1st round draft picks + a top-6 prospect.
Oilers 1st and Tobias Reider, does that qualify?? We can throw in Whitney absolutely free!

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
You're not getting a 25 minute, smooth skating, puck-moving 1st pairing defenceman for a "2nd."
You forgot too add soft, offensively overrated, has never led anyone, overpaid by about $1,000,000.00 and a UFA one year after you trade for him to your statement.

The Flames are not getting a 1st (or two 1sts) a blue chip prospect and a young player for the guy.

If the Flames want to FINALLY rebuild they would flip him in the next month and they should be happy with a 1st and a good prospect. By good prospect I mean a guy with a bottom tier top 6 ceiling.

I don't understand Flames' ownership.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:27 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Good correction, I forgot all about Cormier. But the point still stands, a rental Kovalchuk only returned the following:

Late 1st round DP
Oduya - a decent roster player
Cormier - a solid prospect (I wouldn't have called him "blue-chip" at the time though)
Bergfors - a suspect player who was out of the NHL within a year (but had played decently as a rookie, so a bounce back was possible).
Jbo is not a rental he would be worth more than if he was a rental.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:42 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14eberle View Post
Oilers 1st and Tobias Reider, does that qualify?? We can throw in Whitney absolutely free!
Trading away a 1st for a year and a bit for Jay Bouwmeester doesn't make sense for a team that is still rebuilding. If the Oilers were cup contenders yes, but they're still a couple of years away from that.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:55 PM
  #243
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Jbo has been a beast this season. Hartley has let him play his game and it shows. He is one guy I do not want to see moved unless it doesn't look like he's going to resign. I know this, I sure as hell wouldn't give him away as a cap dump. The return would need to be substantial the way he's been playing, otherwise why trade our best dman?

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02-21-2013, 07:19 PM
  #244
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Everyone keeps talking picks/prospects, but I think something involving a young player with big potential would be more preferred from a Flames perspective.

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02-21-2013, 07:26 PM
  #245
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Why would the flames want to trade away Jbo/ I understand guys like Iggy/Kipper/Cammi/Tanguay. But Jbo is just entering his prime. The prospect he would return would be good but not a blue chip. There is not guarntee that play plus the pick ever become as effective as Jbo. Remember when Jbo was a blue chip as well?

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:27 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Jbo is not a rental he would be worth more than if he was a rental.
And J-bo isn't the player that Kovalchuck is. I think that Jbo has good value, just not ludicrous value like the OP.

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:30 PM
  #247
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What ever team pays that much for him can have him. He eats big minutes in CGY because they don't have much. Too soft for my liking. He has never been on a winning team.

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02-21-2013, 07:40 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
And J-bo isn't the player that Kovalchuck is. I think that Jbo has good value, just not ludicrous value like the OP.
the OP definitely blew it out of proportion, but comparing Bouwmeester and Kovalchuk makes no sense. They play different positions, different teams are desperate for different positions now and trade values have changed quite a bit in the past 2-3 years.

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:40 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL44 View Post
Hmm.. some other D trades:

Zidlicky for a 2nd, 3rd, prospect, depth D, depth F
Methot for a Top 6(9) forward (Foligno)
Schenn for a Top 6 forward (JVR)
Michalek for a 3rd, 2 prospects
Visnovsky for a 2nd
Ellerby, Lovejoy, John Scott for 5th's
Fistric for a 3rd
Oduya for a 2nd and 3rd
Grossman for a 2nd and 3rd
Quincey for a 1st and a prospect
Kubina for a 2nd, 4th, prospect


Yeah.. i think the JBo return will be pretty substantial..

It's funny seeing comments like Brewsky's "I can see Detroit giving them a 1st and thats it." with such certainty when they gave up more for Quincey just the previous yr.

Simple same ol' phenomena of people overrating unknown picks over known talents.
If those marginal-at-best NHL defencemen were able to net that much, think about what a bonafide top-pairing defenceman in his PRIME will net.

When I said 1-2 1st round draft picks, blue-chip prospect, and a young roster player I meant 1-2 1st round draft picks, blue-chip prospect, and a young roster player!


Last edited by Flames Jihadist: 02-21-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Old
02-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL44 View Post
Mins: 25:01/gm, 17th among D.
Mins, ES: 20:20/gm, 6th among D.
+/-: -3, on a team that is -11. (actually pretty positive)

Re-calculate
just cause u play big mins dosent mean nothing...he`s soft and unreliable in his own end...and he is overpaid...

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