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Old
02-17-2013, 01:31 AM
  #51
guymez
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Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan View Post
hope this game is a step in the right direction
Indeed.
This team needs Whitney to be a solid 3rd pairing dman at the very least.

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02-17-2013, 02:07 AM
  #52
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He used to be a top-pairing player but has been slowed considerably by injuries. I don't think he'll ever return to what he was before, but we will see. Right now his foot speed is too slow and it's really hurting his game.

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02-17-2013, 03:18 AM
  #53
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Play him in a few more so we can trade his sorry arse out of here for a 7th round pick. Beyond useless.

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02-17-2013, 03:57 AM
  #54
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He's working on his game with distress, that I do disgress. Khabi bailed out a miserable blind pass he made in a state of distress tonight. Other than that his outlets looked good, skating sub-par but overall play improved from the last game. The guys inside his own head right now. He will come around.

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02-17-2013, 04:26 AM
  #55
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I'd take Rome for him. But, I believe he was more of a asset then potter would've been this game. D pairings were great. Run with Whitney. Value will drop more when he's not in the lineup.

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02-17-2013, 08:04 AM
  #56
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I'll preface what I'm about to say with this: Whitney was one my favourite skilled D-Men in the league long before his tenure with the Oilers. I've been Ryan's biggest apologist after his poor play following his surgery, but I have to be objective now. He is getting beaten with simple outside-inside lateral moves on a consistent basis, makes horrible passes in the D-Zone whilst being pressured, and looks generally lost. We have to let him go for the sake of the rest of the teams' confidence. Smyth can compensate for poor play by relying on veteran tactics, but Whitney can't seem to.

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02-18-2013, 01:50 AM
  #57
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I doubt it, if he keeps playing like this, he will have no value at all.

I cant imagine they re sign him tho. I bet J Schultz will be wearing #6 next year.
To start, yes, I am pretty sure we'll see J. Schultz in his more familiar #6 next year.

Secondly, if we could offload Kurtis Foster (who played with a similar level of uselessness), we can offload Ryan Whitney. That said, he won't have immense value, but I think he'll get us something "respectable".

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02-21-2013, 03:22 PM
  #58
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Gregor just had a 20 minute rant on why trading whitney for a 3rd or 4th round pick the oilers lose the deal. I don't get his love for Whitney.

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02-21-2013, 04:23 PM
  #59
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I have been watching Whitney closely since the start of the year.

Last game he made small improvements overall but still had a couple of horrible turnovers as well.

In 5-10 games at this rate he might eventualy be a reliable bottom pairing defenseman with some PP upside.

As he stands right now he is consistantly the worst player on the ice and that hasn't changed.

I think the Oilers have shot themselves in the foot by playing him as much as they have already. If we truely want to make the playoffs we send Whitney to the minors to work on his game. Or dump him now. He is too much of a liability to play on any NHL team atm.

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02-21-2013, 04:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmco View Post
Gregor just had a 20 minute rant on why trading whitney for a 3rd or 4th round pick the oilers lose the deal. I don't get his love for Whitney.
Its called bad asset management if they trade him for nothing.

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02-21-2013, 05:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jmco View Post
Gregor just had a 20 minute rant on why trading whitney for a 3rd or 4th round pick the oilers lose the deal. I don't get his love for Whitney.
When Horcoff and Jones are healthy we have to many body's with only Prv that can be sent down without waivers . Would be best to package Whitney with another player for a upgrade on defence finding a trade partner to do this will be hard though.

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:10 PM
  #62
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The time has come, we simply require more mobility options from all of our d-men as per system requirements.

Our entire defensive mindset will soon be changing, we will be converting to tall mobile standup defensemen who can stop players forward progress up high on the blueline using their huge frames, head on standup stopping of the zone entry. The NHL has fully adopted the adjusted hybrid system of play and the transitional play entering the o-zone is getting awsome, the only solution is to stand guys up on the blueline up high because once they gain the zone you are toast.

Its not just Ryan who isnt going to go forward here, several guys just cant keep up to the youth and speed and frequently changing system responsibilitys.

There will be trades this year but we will be looking for draft picks I think.

There is no doubt you cannot be fingered repeatedly over and over on goals and not answer to that. At this point i say lets move on, Souray was a better defenseman in my eye and he was given the Manitoba Shuffle right out the door, we need to clean up the landscape here a tad.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:30 PM
  #63
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He just can't skate anymore. It's really sad because he's a very skilled player, just can't move anymore. He's a great passer but he can't move into openings to create lanes.

I feel pretty bad for him, hard to turn it around in Edmonton too... the media and the fanbase have been dumping on him big time and he's always seemed like a guy who is a little mentally fragile to me.

I think a new start is what he needs but he won't play at the level he was at before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmco View Post
Gregor just had a 20 minute rant on why trading whitney for a 3rd or 4th round pick the oilers lose the deal. I don't get his love for Whitney.
because a 3rd or 4th round pick is almost worthless. Gregor is right, we don't need to be trading roster players for late picks anymore.

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02-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
He just can't skate anymore. It's really sad because he's a very skilled player, just can't move anymore. He's a great passer but he can't move into openings to create lanes.

I feel pretty bad for him, hard to turn it around in Edmonton too... the media and the fanbase have been dumping on him big time and he's always seemed like a guy who is a little mentally fragile to me.

I think a new start is what he needs but he won't play at the level he was at before.



because a 3rd or 4th round pick is almost worthless. Gregor is right, we don't need to be trading roster players for late picks anymore.
Whitney is not a roster player right now. He is a project. We hope he returns to form. Send him to the minors we can't miss the playoffs cause one of our D-men can't find his game. A forward you can let slide... Its unfortunate but true defense cant afford to be bad like he has been.

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02-21-2013, 08:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Whitney is not a roster player right now. He is a project. We hope he returns to form. Send him to the minors we can't miss the playoffs cause one of our D-men can't find his game. A forward you can let slide... Its unfortunate but true defense cant afford to be bad like he has been.
He won't clear waivers, that's even worse asset management.

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02-21-2013, 08:17 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
He just can't skate anymore. It's really sad because he's a very skilled player, just can't move anymore. He's a great passer but he can't move into openings to create lanes.

I feel pretty bad for him, hard to turn it around in Edmonton too... the media and the fanbase have been dumping on him big time and he's always seemed like a guy who is a little mentally fragile to me.

I think a new start is what he needs but he won't play at the level he was at before.



because a 3rd or 4th round pick is almost worthless. Gregor is right, we don't need to be trading roster players for late picks anymore.
Roster player? Whitney has been a healthy scratch 4 times this month.

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02-21-2013, 08:26 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by robbiezyg View Post
Its called bad asset management if they trade him for nothing.
That is a very accurate analysis of the situation. Ryan was brought in for a specific role in an adjusted hybrid exctly like we are using now that relied more on the fastbreak defensive exits as opposed to the quasi-transitional fastbreak initiated upice and faster that we are now using. When Whitneys mobility issues are addressed it isnt tangible mobility as in footspeed, it is in positional awareness and ability to engage the forcheck by pressuring them with the rush instead of from behind the net which is more traditional.

Whitney gave us what we asked for when he wasnt injured, the teams collapses werent his fault last year although it may have appeared that way, he was executing the system how he was asked, his issues are the biggest difference between Renney and Krueger, Krueger activates the defense at will and expects them to adjust he demands flexibility, Mac-T and Renney demanded strict set play reliance on a consistant zone exit building into the transition game. Krueger method of adjusting the defensive exit is what activates maximum offense from the adjusted-hybrid system. Mac-T activated the offense only at playoff time and during desperation games trying to get in the door.

In terms of asset managment they take a huge hit on Ryan because they couldnt forsee the day they woulnt need him anymore to maximise his value tradewise any more than they could have accurately told you why their system needed him in the first place when they paid for him. This is just nother symptom of a lack system-understanding and proper planning.

Its a long story but the Oilers were evolving before the coaching change on their own autonomously,last years winning streak was not a fluke it was system induced, we adjusted our system when Ryan was injured and then abandoned the adjustments with no thought about it believing they were not critical.

What we changed when we were winning was our zone transitions we went to a controlled transition like we used to create 56 shots, and we abandoned the fastbreak, the reasons werent really proper it was a bandaid last year but it was perfect. There is a system that does this same thing better than the adjusted hybrid, the NHS.

Ryan is mobile enough to be very effective in almost any system out there, ours is unique for now in the way we adjust the defense, but others are now using the adjusted hybrid the same way as we speak after LA useda NHS enhanced version of it last year to win the cup.

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02-21-2013, 10:59 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
He just can't skate anymore. It's really sad because he's a very skilled player, just can't move anymore. He's a great passer but he can't move into openings to create lanes.

I feel pretty bad for him, hard to turn it around in Edmonton too... the media and the fanbase have been dumping on him big time and he's always seemed like a guy who is a little mentally fragile to me.

I think a new start is what he needs but he won't play at the level he was at before.



because a 3rd or 4th round pick is almost worthless. Gregor is right, we don't need to be trading roster players for late picks anymore.


Wow.

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02-22-2013, 12:43 AM
  #69
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Roster player? Whitney has been a healthy scratch 4 times this month.
He's taking up a spot on the Oilers 23 man roster is he not? That is the definition of a roster player.

The Oilers have enough young prospects in the system and they have a lot of draft picks this year. I'd prefer to get a player back instead of a late pick.

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Wow.
Wow indeed. Do you really think Edmonton should continue to trade roster players for draft picks or should they try to improve the team now instead of stocking the cupboards for the future?

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02-22-2013, 12:44 AM
  #70
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Gotta move him.

I'm so tempted to want a Whitney for Penner deal but it's hard to see where Penner exactly fits here.

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02-22-2013, 12:54 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Gotta move him.

I'm so tempted to want a Whitney for Penner deal but it's hard to see where Penner exactly fits here.
In front of the net on the PP and Left wing with RNH and Ebs

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02-22-2013, 10:14 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
He's taking up a spot on the Oilers 23 man roster is he not? That is the definition of a roster player.

The Oilers have enough young prospects in the system and they have a lot of draft picks this year. I'd prefer to get a player back instead of a late pick.



Wow indeed. Do you really think Edmonton should continue to trade roster players for draft picks or should they try to improve the team now instead of stocking the cupboards for the future?
It all depends on what you can get for him.

I'd rather have a 3rd/4th rounder than nothing when he walks at the end of his contract. I can't imagine Whitney's value is very high at the moment considering how abysmal he's looked.

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02-22-2013, 11:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
It all depends on what you can get for him.

I'd rather have a 3rd/4th rounder than nothing when he walks at the end of his contract. I can't imagine Whitney's value is very high at the moment considering how abysmal he's looked.
Agreed, if that's all you can get take it. I'd like to think we could get a player back, good thing there's some time left until the deadline so he can hopefully up his value. He can be valuable to a playoff team looking for offensive depth on the back end.

It would be a damn shame for Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene to eventually turn into a 3rd or 4th round pick... lets hope Whitney gets it together a bit.

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02-22-2013, 11:47 PM
  #74
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If we were to trade Whitney, the only trade in my opinion that makes sense is to trade Whitney for a roster player that is in a similar situation as Whitney. You will not get fair value for him now. So you will need to look for a player that has a lot of upside but hasn't been able to put it together lately, and maybe a change of scenery would be a good fit for both players.

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02-23-2013, 12:10 AM
  #75
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You guys cant Scratch a guy this many times on a team that does not have the best defense in the league and then turn around and claim he is worth something.

What GM is going to buy that? Putting him on waivers and some GM taking the salary off your hands is doing you favor enough.

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