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Old
02-21-2013, 03:40 PM
  #126
bud12
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Originally Posted by RespectYourEdlers View Post
Couturier+2nd for Subban
habs say no. They don't need another center

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:40 PM
  #127
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People say Couturier has more value than Bogosian?

In his 19-20 year old season Couturier got 13-14 for 27 points in 77 games.

In his 19-20 year old season Bogosian got 10-13 for 23 points in 81 games. As a defenceman.

Last season 21 year old Bogosian outscored 19 year old Couturier by 3 points. In 12 less games.

Common man

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:45 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
People say Couturier has more value than Bogosian?

In his 19-20 year old season Couturier got 13-14 for 27 points in 77 games.

In his 19-20 year old season Bogosian got 10-13 for 23 points in 81 games. As a defenceman.

Last season 21 year old Bogosian outscored 19 year old Couturier by 3 points. In 12 less games.

Common man
Honestly man, you really have to get better with birth-dates and ages.

You messed up really bad in the Scheifele vs Couturier thread (I think that's what it was) and now here.

Couturier was 18-19 last year.

He's 19-20 this year.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:49 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
habs say no. They don't need another center
agreed.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:50 PM
  #130
JetsHomer
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Honestly man, you really have to get better with birth-dates and ages.

You messed up really bad in the Scheifele vs Couturier thread (I think that's what it was) and now here.

Couturier was 18-19 last year.

He's 19-20 this year.
Sorry, thought he was a 91 for some reason. Well either way in his 18-19 year old season Bogosian had 9-10 for 19 points in 47 games. A higher PPG than Couturier. Who plays center as opposed to defence.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:59 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Sorry, thought he was a 91 for some reason. Well either way in his 18-19 year old season Bogosian had 9-10 for 19 points in 47 games. A higher PPG than Couturier. Who plays center as opposed to defence.
Maybe you could trade Bogosian for Giroux++, I mean, Giroux wasn't even good enough to make the NHL at 18.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:05 PM
  #132
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Couts is more valuable to the Flyers than he is in a trade. Teams and fans aren't willing to give up assets to acquire him, and think is is overvalued. What the Flyers see in Sean is something you don't get everyday. This is the same kid who had the highest PPG in JR. for his draft year while playing stellar in his own zone. He's starting to build chemistry with Knuble, and Briere/Talbot. He's now playing the point on the 2nd PP unit and he's starting to get more confidence in the offensive zone. In another year or two, if he works a tad on his speed while getting more ice-time, he's going to become a very dangerous player in this league, in every situation.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:06 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Maybe you could trade Bogosian for Giroux++, I mean, Giroux wasn't even good enough to make the NHL at 18.
Giroux is clearly better than Bogosian. What I am saying is that at 18 Bogosian was better than 18 year old Couturier. At 19 he was better than 19 year old Couturier. At 20 he was better than 20 year old Couturier.

Bogosian is now 22 and much better than he was ever at 20. He's much better than Couturier is, is 2 years more along his development and his potential is as high as Couturier, if not higher. In what universe is Couturier more valuable than Bogosian?

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Giroux is clearly better than Bogosian. What I am saying is that at 18 Bogosian was better than 18 year old Couturier. At 19 he was better than 19 year old Couturier. At 20 he was better than 20 year old Couturier.

Bogosian is now 22 and much better than he was ever at 20. He's much better than Couturier is, is 2 years more along his development and his potential is as high as Couturier, if not higher. In what universe is Couturier more valuable than Bogosian?
Bogo was awful his first 3 years. Lets not try to sugar coat this, Sean Couturier may not be putting up offensive numbers out of this world, but in his own zone there's no other player in this league I trust more. The kids instincts and ability to shut down top players in this league is something you can't teach. As I stated above, he's starting to get confidence in the offensive zone, and is now playing the point on the 2nd PP unit. I've never been impressed with Bogo, he has all the tools and no toolbox. The only thing holding Sean back at this point is his foot speed. If he can work on that, he's going to be a very unique and skilled player.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:24 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyersFan18 View Post
Bogo was awful his first 3 years. Lets not try to sugar coat this, Sean Couturier may not be putting up offensive numbers out of this world, but in his own zone here's no other player in this league I trust more. The kids instincts and ability to shut down top players in this league is something you can't teach. As I stated above, he's starting to get confidence in the offensive zone, and is now playing the point on the 2nd PP unit. I've never been impressed with Bogo, he has all the tools and no toolbox. The only thing holding Sean back at this point is his foot speed. If he can work on that, he's going to be a very unique and skilled player.
Bogosian's third season he did regress when he lost confidence. His first two seasons were much better than Couturiers have been. After a slight regression in the final Atlanta year he bounced back last year big time.

Not really sure how you could say he's awful when he out scored Couturier over the same period. I get that Couturier is a two way forward but Bogosian is not merely an offensive D. He's an awesome shutdown D as well.

Its pretty mind boggling the arguments some of you are trying to make.

Couturiers good, no doubt. But Bogosian is better and was better than Couturier was at the same age. Not sure how people are denying this...

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:39 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyersFan18 View Post
Bogo was awful his first 3 years. Lets not try to sugar coat this, Sean Couturier may not be putting up offensive numbers out of this world, but in his own zone there's no other player in this league I trust more. The kids instincts and ability to shut down top players in this league is something you can't teach. As I stated above, he's starting to get confidence in the offensive zone, and is now playing the point on the 2nd PP unit. I've never been impressed with Bogo, he has all the tools and no toolbox. The only thing holding Sean back at this point is his foot speed. If he can work on that, he's going to be a very unique and skilled player.
hmmmm?

Bogosian had a good rookie year. He was doing pretty well in his 2nd season until an injury slowed him down. Took a big step back in his 3rd season.

Last season (at 21) he was our best shut down defender who got the tough assignments like Sean. He worked on keeping it simple with Huddy and I thought he was our best defensive defenseman by a decent margin.

On top of that he was tied for 11th in the NHL D scoring 5v5 PP/60 minutes (for defenseman who played more than 50 games). So taking power play out of it and facing the other teams best players 5 on 5 he was close to top 10 scoring rate per 60 minutes even strength in the NHL. Bogo was tied for 30th in PPG average with Doughty, Subban, and Seabrook and Zach was doing that off the 2nd PP unit while battling an injury (Doughty and Subban are 1st unit guys). Zach is our future #1 franchise defenseman and already our best all around D man IMHO.

I think Sean will be a productive player offensively and at worst he is going to be a good 2nd line centre but he has yet to prove it.....Zach has already proved it at a young age and he still has allot of runway to get better.

somewhat pointless because neither team is flipping these assets but still sometimes on these boards potential seems to be taken for granted.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:45 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyersFan18 View Post
Bogo was awful his first 3 years. Lets not try to sugar coat this, Sean Couturier may not be putting up offensive numbers out of this world, but in his own zone there's no other player in this league I trust more. The kids instincts and ability to shut down top players in this league is something you can't teach. As I stated above, he's starting to get confidence in the offensive zone, and is now playing the point on the 2nd PP unit. I've never been impressed with Bogo, he has all the tools and no toolbox. The only thing holding Sean back at this point is his foot speed. If he can work on that, he's going to be a very unique and skilled player.
Datsyuk? Toews? Bergeron? Kesler? Kopitar? Etc.

He's not even a top 10 defensive forward, yet there's no other player you'd trust in the league in the defensive zone? Maybe in the future, but now?

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:50 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
The part in the thread where a list of young defenseman was presented at which point several people clamined that they all have more value than Couturier.
How does that translate into:
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Apparently couturier has no value at all.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:55 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Yet you've made two different (awful) proposals for him.

I didn't realize a 40 point player who has a decent upside (maybe Jordan Stall one day) Is worth more than a top 2 puck moving D man.

Giordano on the Flyers becomes one of your best players and helps you out a ton.

You guys make it sound like he is Seguin or Hall or something.

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:45 PM
  #140
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What do you expect his point total to be playing as an 18 year old, on the 4th line of a playoff team, no PP time, against teams best lines???

He has the UPSIDE to be a #1 C. But with Giroux there, he could be a #1B C.

In Jr, we won a scoring title, had the best PPG for draft eligible players, won MVP, named top prospect and had the leagues best +/- Why is he only ever thought of as a defensive player that gets 45 points???????? Just becuase he CAN play defense, doesn't mean he CAN'T play offense!!
Can someone please answer these for me?????

Also, When has he been in an offensive role? Oh yeah...when he won scoring titles. Oh, and in the AHL this year when he had 28 points in 31 games. Weird. It seems like when he is used in an offensive role...he produces. Personally, I want him to be kept in his current role for 1 more year...until he signs a nice lil bridge contract. Then let him loose in years 4-6.

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:47 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Flyers do neither of those for Pietrangelo or OEL.

Also, 50 point potential is his floor, not his ceiling. It'll be interesting to see what happens to him behind Giroux and Schenn.

That said, you saw a lot of his offensive ability tonight; lots of big body work, low on the boards, puck-handling in tight spaces, making clean passes.

Couturier's offense is going to be just fine. People who can't see flashes haven't been watching. Where there's smoke there's fire, especially if there was burning down entire forests in juniors.

The arguments against Couts' offense remind of the ..."Oh, Giroux will never be anything more than a 50 point winger with 40 assists." ...to "Oh, Giroux will never be anything more than a 65 point forward with 40 assists." ...to "Oh Giroux will never be a consistent point-per-game player." ...to "Oh, ****."
Floor is probably what he's already accomplished, not what he's yet to do. I think he does have a lot more potential, but to say his floor is twice as much than he's already done (albeit only one season), he's got a ways to go to say 50 point is his floor.

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Old
02-21-2013, 06:42 PM
  #142
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I'd trade Couturier + for OEL, Yandle, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo but that's about it. And the plus would have to be significant.

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02-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Kangiroux View Post
I'd trade Couturier + for OEL, Yandle, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo but that's about it. And the plus would have to be significant.
that gets none of those players, maybe yandle.

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02-21-2013, 07:31 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
that gets none of those players, maybe yandle.
Did you need him to spell out the "plus" part more clearly?

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02-21-2013, 07:40 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Did you need him to spell out the "plus" part more clearly?
my post had the plus in mind........

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Did you need him to spell out the "plus" part more clearly?
I assume that what he is saying is that there is no package in which Couturier is the most valuable piece that could net those players. That's the consensus definition of "player +"--right? That the "plus" is something less valuable than the first asset.

I agree that Pietrangelo can't be had with Couturier as the centerpiece--not even close.

I'm not as certain about some of the others--but the plus would have to be something far greater than any Flyers fan would want to pay.

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:24 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
I didn't realize a 40 point player who has a decent upside (maybe Jordan Stall one day) Is worth more than a top 2 puck moving D man.

Giordano on the Flyers becomes one of your best players and helps you out a ton.

You guys make it sound like he is Seguin or Hall or something.
He's much closer to Seguin or Hall than a "40 point player who has a decent upside"
And if your going to make a player comparison at least spell his name right.

I don't understand how Couturier is overrated. Him turning out to be a 70+ selke contender isn't far fetched whatsoever.

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Old
02-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
He's much closer to Seguin or Hall than a "40 point player who has a decent upside"
And if your going to make a player comparison at least spell his name right.

I don't understand how Couturier is overrated. Him turning out to be a 70+ selke contender isn't far fetched whatsoever.
I love Coots and all, but 70+..? I feel like you're at least giving him 20+ points than what's realistic. I'm thinking 50 at most.. Perhaps average 40+ season average. Giroux is our top line center, and will most likely stay that way. So being on the second line at best, I just don't see 70+ happening.

So realistically, and in my dreams, I would try and go for that 1st overall at the draft for Seth Jones somehow. But that's just me, I'm positive not many other Flyers fan really care for that idea. Plus finishing in that bottom 14 gives us a chance regardless!

Holy crap, I can't believe some people are really saying Coots has more value than Bogo.. If that were true.. and possible, I'd drive Coots to Peg right now and scoop Bogo. Or better yet, just wait until they play in Philly, leave Bogo here and take Coots with ya!

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:50 AM
  #149
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I'm a flyers fan and it's laughable how much flyers fans overrate Sean "hands of stone" Couturier..


Bogo >>> Coots AINEC.

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:41 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
my post had the plus in mind........
So
Couturier + Coburn

Couturier + Read

Couturier + Mezsaros

Couturier + 1st/2nd

???

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