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02-21-2013, 09:16 PM
  #101
Markstrom Rules
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
I don't see Versteeg, Goc, Flash or Theodore going anywhere anytime soon. Upshall, Kovalev and Kuba will be nearly impossible to move. I see Weiss and Weiss only as a major move this year. Weiss' trade value keeps going down every game he plays this season. Weaver is fine here for the rest of the year, 6pts so far is not bad for $1.1 million a year. I wouldn't be opposed to a 1yr deal for Weaver in the off-season.
I'm just reiterating what Bobby Mac said, who is the most reputable journalist in the biz when it comes to trade rumors. He said expensive players will move, so it will be more than just Weiss. Kovalev will draw interest, he's cheap, on a 1 year deal and still can chip in some points.

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02-21-2013, 09:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Oh yeah, I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him. If he doesn't turn it around, that contract could become an albatross. If we don't turn it around this week, I'd wouldn't mind trading off as many vets as is feasible to still ice a 21 man roster and loading up for yet another monster draft.
Same. Another monster draft could put us in a sweet position long term. We could become a team like the St Louis Blues in the short term and potentially better with the right moves by Tallon.

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02-21-2013, 09:26 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I'm just reiterating what Bobby Mac said, who is the most reputable journalist in the biz when it comes to trade rumors. He said expensive players will move, so it will be more than just Weiss. Kovalev will draw interest, he's cheap, on a 1 year deal and still can chip in some points.
Oh I know, just giving my .02 cents. I'd be interested to see what Kovalev is worth, if he gets 15-20pts somehow he may fetch a 4th-5th rounder for a Stanley Cup contender that needs help on their PP. I don't see it though, I feel he finishes off his year here and maybe signs in either Pittsburgh, New York or Montreal for a one-day contract next year to retire.

Everyone wants a top 5 pick this year for this team. I've said it can be done even with us competing for a playoff spot. Weiss could fetch a 2nd round pick guaranteed and then Tallon could take our 1st rounder and that 2nd rounder and package it as a trade for a solid top 5 pick? Yes or No? I'd want more for Weiss but right now he's not impressing the buyers that may be interested.

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02-21-2013, 09:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Oh I know, just giving my .02 cents. I'd be interested to see what Kovalev is worth, if he gets 15-20pts somehow he may fetch a 4th-5th rounder for a Stanley Cup contender that needs help on their PP. I don't see it though, I feel he finishes off his year here and maybe signs in either Pittsburgh, New York or Montreal for a one-day contract next year to retire.

Everyone wants a top 5 pick this year for this team. I've said it can be done even with us competing for a playoff spot. Weiss could fetch a 2nd round pick guaranteed and then Tallon could take our 1st rounder and that 2nd rounder and package it as a solid top 5 pick? I'd want more for Weiss but right now he's not impressing the buyers that may be interested.
We can't get a top 5 pick if we are competing for a playoff spot until the end. A 2nd rounder will move you up 2-3 spots at most. Plus, this year's top 5 is better than most years', so those teams will be especially loathe to move those picks.

Kovalev could probably fetch a 4th-5th if he gets a few more points. Last time he was traded at the deadline he returned a 4th. He still has those hands, he can still produce some offense despite being horrible in almost every facet of the game.

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02-21-2013, 09:35 PM
  #105
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I feel like Kovalev is worth a lot of nothing.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind trading any of the guys listed with the exception of Goc, and even he has his own trade value.

I would like to keep Bergenheim too, but I'm not sure what's going on there.

I do not like our first line from last year. It's not just this year, either. They were very good for the first 30 games last year, and then pretty much sucked the rest of the way.

They're not that good. Weiss is a 2nd line center who is an upcoming UFA. Flash is a one-dimensional 2nd line winger. Versteeg is an inconsistent 3rd line winger. There's a reason why Versteeg has been traded so many times. I don't think this is just because of injuries. It's the way he is, apparently.

We need to get bigger.

That line is too flashy and they're not skilled enough to play that way. Not only have they lacked production, they've been this team's biggest liability for awhile now (again, since the first 30 games last year). Look at the +/- #'s, they've been dreadful. It's pretty annoying to watch them play.

The difference between that line and our current #1 line is that this version is more skilled and younger. And while they're also small for the most part, they play hard. Mueller has shown that he's willing to get to the dirty areas and win battles. Huberdeau is the most skilled player we have, and Shore is responsible with some offensive ability.

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02-21-2013, 09:47 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We can't get a top 5 pick if we are competing for a playoff spot until the end. A 2nd rounder will move you up 2-3 spots at most. Plus, this year's top 5 is better than most years', so those teams will be especially loathe to move those picks.

Kovalev could probably fetch a 4th-5th if he gets a few more points. Last time he was traded at the deadline he returned a 4th. He still has those hands, he can still produce some offense despite being horrible in almost every facet of the game.
The chances are slimmer for a top 5 pick competing for a playoff spot but I'm pretty sure all non-playoff teams(14 teams) picks are entered into the lottery with the teams finishing lower in seeds getting more balls and higher seeded teams getting less balls in the lottery draw. We could possibly trade with one of the 14 non-playoff teams. Just wishful thinking on my part. Looks like us, the Islanders, Columbus, Buffalo, Colorado, Calgary and Washington are the front runners for most balls in the lottery right now.

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02-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #107
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We are a lock for 5 goals next game!
0, 5, 0, 5, 0... and now 5 goals. Now, I'm not one for superstition or jinxes, but this is entirely too strange.

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02-22-2013, 12:18 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
0, 5, 0, 5, 0... and now 5 goals. Now, I'm not one for superstition or jinxes, but this is entirely too strange.
A bipolar team for a bipolar fanbase!

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02-22-2013, 01:40 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I feel like Kovalev is worth a lot of nothing.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind trading any of the guys listed with the exception of Goc, and even he has his own trade value.

I would like to keep Bergenheim too, but I'm not sure what's going on there.

I do not like our first line from last year. It's not just this year, either. They were very good for the first 30 games last year, and then pretty much sucked the rest of the way.

They're not that good. Weiss is a 2nd line center who is an upcoming UFA. Flash is a one-dimensional 2nd line winger. Versteeg is an inconsistent 3rd line winger. There's a reason why Versteeg has been traded so many times. I don't think this is just because of injuries. It's the way he is, apparently.

We need to get bigger.

That line is too flashy and they're not skilled enough to play that way. Not only have they lacked production, they've been this team's biggest liability for awhile now (again, since the first 30 games last year). Look at the +/- #'s, they've been dreadful. It's pretty annoying to watch them play.

The difference between that line and our current #1 line is that this version is more skilled and younger. And while they're also small for the most part, they play hard. Mueller has shown that he's willing to get to the dirty areas and win battles. Huberdeau is the most skilled player we have, and Shore is responsible with some offensive ability.
I agree that we could use more size in our lineup. And while you're probably right about Weiss & Fleischmann basically being 2nd liners if they were on a contending team, we just lack 1st line talent and thats not easy to acquire without developing it yourself. Right now in terms of 1st line talent, we really only have Huberdeau. I like Mueller but he's not a true 1st liner on a contending team, and Shore definitely isnt either. Versteeg has always been a bit injury prone and thats mostly why he's been traded so much. That and obviously he's been streaky in his career. I think Tallon isnt going to trade him anyway but if he's used the right way, he's still a worthwhile 2nd/3rd liner on most playoff teams.

If Tallon does decide to blow it up, the names mentioned are all fine with me to get moved. I honestly wouldnt mind Kulikov being included in the list of guys to be moved as well. Maybe we could do a deal like Pittsburgh did with Dallas when they swapped Goligoski for Neal & Niskanen. Thats the type of deal that I would want to do if we were to move Kulikov (we could include something else but not an asset like our 1st rounder or anything like that). I definitely see us not having Bergy, Upshall and possibly Weaver on the squad next yr to open some roster spots.

One thing I've noticed this yr is that we really do lack a d-man with good size but strong positioning to pair with Campbell. Garrison was that guy last yr and Kuba just doesnt have the same qualities as Garrison. Wish we had a chance to have traded for Z.Michalek this offseason as he would've been an awesome fit on our team with same salary as Kuba & fit better for our team.

Looking at the free agents to be, I've seen a few guys that I think make sense for us and have a bit more size. Lets also assume for a min that Weiss doesnt re-sign as well and I could see us targeting the following guys if we did do a blow up:

C Tyler Bozak (Toronto) - 27 yrs old, good size at 6'1" ~200 lbs, wins faceoffs...will transition well to a 2nd or 3rd line center down the line, currently making $1.5M/yr (expect him to get a deal at least similar to Weiss' now)
LW/RW Ryane Clowe (San Jose) - 30 yrs old, another guy with size at 6'2" 225lbs, consistently puts up ~20 g and 50 pts, still good defensively, currently making $3.625M/yr
LW/RW Ryan Jones (Edmonton) - will be 29 yrs old, would replace Bergy on 3rd line with better size, 6'1" 210 lbs, currently making $1.5M/yr

I think those 3 guys would fit us perfectly and still leave spots in the future for prospects. I would expect something like this if we could get those guys in our lineup:

Huberdeau - Bozak - Mueller
Fleischmann - Shore - Clowe
Jones - Goc - Versteeg
Parros - Matthias - Skille

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02-22-2013, 01:45 PM
  #110
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I think we need to find a way to get O'Reilly without giving up Kulikov. Bozak as our #1 center is a joke. I'm not saying your decision is a joke. The market is awful for #1 centers. We'll miss the playoffs with him as our #1 guy.

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02-22-2013, 01:51 PM
  #111
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I wouldn't; mind a guy like Raffi Torres to add some physical play to our bottom 6. We need to become physically difficult to play against.

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02-22-2013, 01:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I wouldn't; mind a guy like Raffi Torres to add some physical play to our bottom 6. We need to become physically difficult to play against.
I agree. And that was why I thought James Wright had a really good shot at sticking in Florida.

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02-22-2013, 02:07 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I think we need to find a way to get O'Reilly without giving up Kulikov. Bozak as our #1 center is a joke. I'm not saying your decision is a joke. The market is awful for #1 centers. We'll miss the playoffs with him as our #1 guy.
I dont think we're gonna get O'Reilly either way, especially if he's asking for $5M+/yr. I personally dont think Tallon can justify signing him for that much. Bozak probably won't command more than $4M/yr and probably someone we can realistically sign. While yes, he's not a true 1st line center, he's still playing 20 mins per night and Toronto with him as their #1 center is a playoff team right now. So I disagree that we miss the playoffs with him as our #1 guy as he's showing you otherwise.

Eventually, he slots in better as a #2 guy...basically just a few yrs younger version of Weiss with better size. But he gives us a bridge for at least 1-2 yrs until Bjugstad gets some pro experience and can develop into a top 6 NHL center himself. And honestly, O'Reilly probably slots in the same way but he is smaller, not as physical, and not as good as Bozak in faceoffs. And again, Bozak will be cheaper in salary & to acquire (no assets since he's a free agent compared to trading for O'Reilly which will require assets).

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02-22-2013, 02:17 PM
  #114
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I dont think we're gonna get O'Reilly either way, especially if he's asking for $5M+/yr. I personally dont think Tallon can justify signing him for that much. Bozak probably won't command more than $4M/yr and probably someone we can realistically sign. While yes, he's not a true 1st line center, he's still playing 20 mins per night and Toronto with him as their #1 center is a playoff team right now. So I disagree that we miss the playoffs with him as our #1 guy as he's showing you otherwise.

Eventually, he slots in better as a #2 guy...basically just a few yrs younger version of Weiss with better size. But he gives us a bridge for at least 1-2 yrs until Bjugstad gets some pro experience and can develop into a top 6 NHL center himself. And honestly, O'Reilly probably slots in the same way but he is smaller, not as physical, and not as good as Bozak in faceoffs. And again, Bozak will be cheaper in salary & to acquire (no assets since he's a free agent compared to trading for O'Reilly which will require assets).
4 mill for Bozak seems like a lot. Plus he's going to want multiple years. He is young and it's nice not to give up assets. Bozak doesn't really play to his size, imo. We shall see. Hopefully if we're out of it, Tallon cleans house and we have money to go after Getzlaf, jk.

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02-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
4 mill for Bozak seems like a lot. Plus he's going to want multiple years. He is young and it's nice not to give up assets. Bozak doesn't really play to his size, imo. We shall see. Hopefully if we're out of it, Tallon cleans house and we have money to go after Getzlaf, jk.
I dont know what it will exactly cost for Bozak but a typical 2nd line forward gets around $4M nowadays so thats about right for him. Him wanting multiple yrs isnt going to be a bad thing either, I'd just want to limit it to 3-4 yrs if we could since that would take him to around the same age as Weiss is now and we should have plenty of guys that can take his spot by then.

And I disagree that Bozak doesnt play his size, he had 117 hits last season which is 30 more than Weiss had last yr and 50 more than O'Reilly had last yr (he's on pace for about 95 hits if this was a full season). If you compare him to Weiss too, you can see he's just as good in most statistical categories so we wouldnt be downgrading IMO. We all know we wont get Getzlaf and Weiss will want closer to $5M+ himself so getting a decent enough center in the $3-4M range is probably worth it for us and realistic as well.

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02-22-2013, 03:03 PM
  #116
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Very good posts by you two. I don't think Bozak is leaving the leafs lineup anytime soon. Alot of Leafs fans like the guy and I feel management does too. The Leafs have to re-sign Kessel as well who will command $6million plus since Grabovski got $5.5million.

Tim Connolly and Dave Steckel will be gone from the Leafs next year which I feel is a good assumption. The leafs need Bozak as their #2 Center behind Grabovski. I wouldn't mind him as a replacement if Weiss is gone and only gets us picks in return. Just don't see the Leafs letting him go without offering him a good contract.

Derek Roy is another possibility but I see Dallas trying to keep him as well because of their lack of depth at Center. Jamie Benn is the #1 guy and Roy would be their #2. Same decision as Bozak in Toronto, Dallas would be silly to let Roy walk.

The list for FA Centers has some solid players but other than Getzlaf is nothing but Centers that are equal to what Weiss is as a player:

Elias, Patrik » C NJD 36 $6,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Getzlaf, Ryan » C ANA 27 $5,325,000 2013 (UFA)
Ribeiro, Mike » C WAS 33 $5,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Connolly, Tim » C TOR 31 $4,750,000 2013 (UFA)
McDonald, Andy » C STL 35 $4,700,000 2013 (UFA)
Antropov, Nik » C WIN 33 $4,062,500 2013 (UFA)
Roy, Derek » C DAL 29 $4,000,000 2013 (UFA)
Koivu, Saku » C ANA 38 $3,800,000 2013 (UFA)
Cervenka, Roman » C CGY 27 $3,775,000 2013 (UFA)
Lombardi, Matthew » C PHX 30 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Cullen, Matt » C MIN 36 $3,500,000 2013 (UFA)
Zubrus, Dainius » C NJD 34 $3,400,000 2013 (UFA)
Weiss, Stephen » C FLA 29 $3,100,000 2013 (UFA)


My dream of Tallon signing Getzlaf dies every game Anaheim keeps playing. What a surprise roll they're on.

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02-23-2013, 11:51 PM
  #117
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Someone mentioned it earlier. Just wanted to throw this up here rather than make a separate thread to confirm.

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Florida Panthers ‏@FlaPanthers
The #FlaPanthers have recalled defenseman @c_robak from the @sarampage.

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