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Old
02-21-2013, 10:27 PM
  #51
RedMenace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
It is not just Lashoff's fault..you said yourself that he is a stay-at-home d-man that definitely could be a future 3rd pairing guy for us. So WHY is Babcock giving him Power Play time over Big Rig? Why is Babcock giving a 22-yr old minimally skilled defenseman firs-pairing minutes?

How about how Babcock is using Cleary and Abby? We have every right to be frustrated right now. These are unacceptable losses.
Again, I will totally agree with the assessment that Babcock needs to... reassess... his... assessing? of the lineups.

But for whatever reason, he just won't.


Last edited by joe89: 02-22-2013 at 01:57 AM. Reason: ..
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Old
02-21-2013, 10:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Again, I will totally agree with the assessment that Babcock needs to... reassess... his... assessing? of the lineups.

But for whatever reason, he just won't.
So how is it wrong for us to criticize those decisions and in turn criticize the play of those being put in those positions by Babcock?

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Old
02-21-2013, 10:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
So how is it wrong for us to criticize those decisions and in turn criticize the play of those being put in those positions by Babcock?
Criticizing poor play and making outrageously false claims are two totally different things.

Has Lashoff made some rough plays? Hell yeah he has, but people are so keen to pick him apart that they miss the other 75% of his play that's actually pretty damned good considering.

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02-21-2013, 10:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Criticizing poor play and making outrageously false claims are two totally different things.

Has Lashoff made some rough plays? Hell yeah he has, but people are so keen to pick him apart that they miss the other 75% of his play that's actually pretty damned good considering.
I don't think any "outrageous" false claims have been made here. And 75% of good play by Lash is a very big exaggeration.

He has shown some flashes of potential and may end up being a very solid PK minute-muncher somewhere down the line but the reality is that he is out of his league right now and Babcock continues to put him in positions to fail more often than he will succeed.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:18 AM
  #55
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A lot of us are rooting for some different team right now, the Red Griffins and they stink right now and their coach doesn't look like he has a clue what he is doing.

I hate the Holland and Babcock should be fired stuff. But they need to answer some serious questions right now, not be fired but I want a plan and they should be on notice. If we are having the same excuses early into next season some things are going to need to change. The coaching questions need to be answered now on at least what the hell he is thinking half the time.

The defense of Lashoff is one of them. I know you want to cut Lashoff some slack but they are putting him in a position to fail and we need results. The playoffs are slipping away and he doesn't have to be accountable for anything? That doesn't scan, I am generally on the happy side of things. But this is a fair thread and most of these are fair questions that need to be asked.

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:42 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
"Mike, Abdelkader has 1 point in 17 games and is a minus 6 overall. Can you tell us how orgasmic Abdelkader's singular offensive contribution was for you so we can better understand why you persist in playing him in offensive roles?"
I can hear Trevor Thomson's low, calm voice saying this!

My uncle and I have an ongoing joke about Trevor interviewing Babcock during intermission. There was one game he let out a rambling, confusing, "Keating" like question and Babcock gave him the death stare. For 3 or 4 games I swear Trevor was back in the call sam studios! Now he keeps the questions short and sweet.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:30 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
A lot of us are rooting for some different team right now, the Red Griffins and they stink right now and their coach doesn't look like he has a clue what he is doing.

I hate the Holland and Babcock should be fired stuff. But they need to answer some serious questions right now, not be fired but I want a plan and they should be on notice. If we are having the same excuses early into next season some things are going to need to change. The coaching questions need to be answered now on at least what the hell he is thinking half the time.

The defense of Lashoff is one of them. I know you want to cut Lashoff some slack but they are putting him in a position to fail and we need results. The playoffs are slipping away and he doesn't have to be accountable for anything? That doesn't scan, I am generally on the happy side of things. But this is a fair thread and most of these are fair questions that need to be asked.
I'm watching this team and throwing my hands up in the air. I really don't understand Holland's rationale and gameplan.
I have no idea what the hell Babcock is doing.
I mean, if he hates Kindl, fine, I can understand that even if I disagree. But what's with the overuse of Lashoff?

Maybe coach has a good reason for barely using Tootoo and Tatar when they're often among the top 5 forwards on the team.
I'd like to hear it.

And I'd like to know when the sports media became so complacent? Can we at least get some columnists with the ability to drive by and ask some tough questions?

Really, if all the sports media is going to do is TELL US WHAT THE RED WINGS ARE SAYING ... what good are they?

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:55 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I'm watching this team and throwing my hands up in the air. I really don't understand Holland's rationale and gameplan.
I have no idea what the hell Babcock is doing.
I mean, if he hates Kindl, fine, I can understand that even if I disagree. But what's with the overuse of Lashoff?

Maybe coach has a good reason for barely using Tootoo and Tatar when they're often among the top 5 forwards on the team.
I'd like to hear it.

And I'd like to know when the sports media became so complacent? Can we at least get some columnists with the ability to drive by and ask some tough questions?

Really, if all the sports media is going to do is TELL US WHAT THE RED WINGS ARE SAYING ... what good are they?
We have our disagreements, but I am 100% with you on this one. The beat writers need to ask some of this stuff. I know the injuries stink and they can point that out, but they are being flat out coached and the answers from within aren't completely panning out. It isn't out of bounds at all to ask some tougher questions and get some answers. When Babcock says guys aren't showing up ask him who and if he doesn't tell you trash him for it. God forbid things don't go well in Sochi, he is going to be one unhappy dude because no pass is coming there and for the record I don't think things will go well for Canada at the next Olympics so I am at least pretty sure he is going to have to face the music with media at some point in the next year. Holland can also get some heat, I don't think he wants to function as a guy that is micromanaging but he is Babcock's boss and these are his players, he cannot just sit on the sidelines if he has a problem with this either.

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:56 AM
  #59
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If you want to discuss the local reporters or the team, go ahead. Stay away from the personal attacks, consider this the only warning.

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:07 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I'm watching this team and throwing my hands up in the air. I really don't understand Holland's rationale and gameplan.
I have no idea what the hell Babcock is doing.
I mean, if he hates Kindl, fine, I can understand that even if I disagree. But what's with the overuse of Lashoff?

Maybe coach has a good reason for barely using Tootoo and Tatar when they're often among the top 5 forwards on the team.
I'd like to hear it.

And I'd like to know when the sports media became so complacent? Can we at least get some columnists with the ability to drive by and ask some tough questions?

Really, if all the sports media is going to do is TELL US WHAT THE RED WINGS ARE SAYING ... what good are they?
I've never thought much about this part of the game but I feel what you're getting at. There's no transparency as to why decisions are made; all we get is generic, cryptic hockey statements.

Quote:
Before the game, Babcock offered the following to Roose regarding his decision to sit Jakub Kindl for Kent Huskins' sake:

“I know what he’s going to do,” Babcock said, referring to Huskins. “Kuba moves the puck real good, and yet involved in too many plays going in the wrong direction. … Huskins doesn’t move the puck the same, but I know what he’s going to do. … So that’s the balance there.”
It makes me think back to the reasoning during the lockout. What if the city/state or fans had control of the team and we chose the line-ups/roster? No joke I wonder if the RW Forum, by voting, could construct a better game plan?

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:18 AM
  #61
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"Coach, what's your long term plan for the defense and power play? They ARE what's killing this team....you know that right?!!!":

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02-22-2013, 02:21 AM
  #62
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Right now this team is not set up to win. So the question has to be asked of what we are doing for the rest of this season, and a decision needs to be made.

Either

1. Start the rebuild. This means dealing off any spare older parts that the Wings can, and starting to play the kids that are at least mentally ready. This means Smith (once healthy), Lashoff, Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar should all be playing (both 5 on 5 and on special teams). This means that players like Miller, Sammy, Bert, Cleary, and Eaves should all be benched or moved so that the above players have spots. You call up guys like Sheahan, Mrzaek and Ferraro to get in a few games here and there. I'd also consider dealing Flip if the Wings can, especially for a center or dman of a similar age (25-29). I'd also consider dealing Franzen if we could get a solid deal for him. Dats is likely gone in a year and the Wings will be lucky if Zetterberg can remain at season after another season or two. Right now only Jarnkrok is looking like a true top 6 center (perhaps Sheahan). This is why I'd totally accept a Weiss for Flip trade if we could resign him.

2. Say no we are going to make the playoffs and fix this roster. Immediately trade for a defensive D than can play with Kronner. I don't care if he is old or slow. Lashoff is not a number 2 dman (he's probably and ok 6). We need a legit defensive dman that can play heavy minutes on the PK (thus taking Kronner off of it) and will allow Kronwall to play his game. Stop fing around with the offensive voids that are Cleary and Abs and put players that have at least exuded some offensive talent in the top 6. I'm looking at Eaves and Tatar. Heck I'd even try Tootoo up there as he at least can provide an energy spark. Stop putting Brunner out in areas where he will fail defensively IE the point on the PP and out late in tied or close games. If Helm doesn't look like he is going to be back soon, you also need to trade for a center. 4th or 3rd line, I don't care but Abby cannot play center. If cannot do the above then you move to option 1 and start doing something productive.

As a fan I could handle either option but failing to do either is a waste of a season. The Wings cannot afford to lose a season. And Bob you are entirely right, the media needs to start forcing these points/ questions.

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Old
02-22-2013, 02:26 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 for president View Post
Right now this team is not set up to win. So the question has to be asked of what we are doing for the rest of this season, and a decision needs to be made.

Either

1. Start the rebuild. This means dealing off any spare older parts that the Wings can, and starting to play the kids that are at least mentally ready. This means Smith (once healthy), Lashoff, Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar should all be playing (both 5 on 5 and on special teams). This means that players like Miller, Sammy, Bert, Cleary, and Eaves should all be benched or moved so that the above players have spots. You call up guys like Sheahan, Mrzaek and Ferraro to get in a few games here and there. I'd also consider dealing Flip if the Wings can, especially for a center or dman of a similar age (25-29). I'd also consider dealing Franzen if we could get a solid deal for him. Dats is likely gone in a year and the Wings will be lucky if Zetterberg can remain at season after another season or two. Right now only Jarnkrok is looking like a true top 6 center (perhaps Sheahan). This is why I'd totally accept a Weiss for Flip trade if we could resign him.

2. Say no we are going to make the playoffs and fix this roster. Immediately trade for a defensive D than can play with Kronner. I don't care if he is old or slow. Lashoff is not a number 2 dman (he's probably and ok 6). We need a legit defensive dman that can play heavy minutes on the PK (thus taking Kronner off of it) and will allow Kronwall to play his game. Stop fing around with the offensive voids that are Cleary and Abs and put players that have at least exuded some offensive talent in the top 6. I'm looking at Eaves and Tatar. Heck I'd even try Tootoo up there as he at least can provide an energy spark. Stop putting Brunner out in areas where he will fail defensively IE the point on the PP and out late in tied or close games. If Helm doesn't look like he is going to be back soon, you also need to trade for a center. 4th or 3rd line, I don't care but Abby cannot play center. If cannot do the above then you move to option 1 and start doing something productive.

As a fan I could handle either option but failing to do either is a waste of a season. The Wings cannot afford to lose a season. And Bob you are entirely right, the media needs to start forcing these points/ questions.
I'll take option 2 please!

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Old
02-22-2013, 06:16 AM
  #64
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Yea I don't get the marshmallow treatment of the Wings by the local media. The Tigers and Lions certainly don't get handled with kids gloves like the Wings do, especially the Lions. Perhaps it stems from so many years if the Wings being the only good team in town other than a relatively brief run by the pistons. Whatever the case may be I hope the crap changes and SOMEONE starts askin some tough questions.

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Old
02-22-2013, 06:54 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DeYarmond Edison View Post
"Mike, are you single-handedly trying to make Datsyuk leave?"

Saying that Z is the team's best player by a coutry mile

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Old
02-22-2013, 08:53 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
"Coach, what's your long term plan for the defense and power play? They ARE what's killing this team....you know that right?!!!":

This is certainly a relevant question and one that should be asked. We keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I'm sure they think they are working hard at solving it but no results mean changes are required

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Old
02-22-2013, 08:58 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 for president View Post
Right now this team is not set up to win. So the question has to be asked of what we are doing for the rest of this season, and a decision needs to be made.

Either

1. Start the rebuild. This means dealing off any spare older parts that the Wings can, and starting to play the kids that are at least mentally ready. This means Smith (once healthy), Lashoff, Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar should all be playing (both 5 on 5 and on special teams). This means that players like Miller, Sammy, Bert, Cleary, and Eaves should all be benched or moved so that the above players have spots. You call up guys like Sheahan, Mrzaek and Ferraro to get in a few games here and there. I'd also consider dealing Flip if the Wings can, especially for a center or dman of a similar age (25-29). I'd also consider dealing Franzen if we could get a solid deal for him. Dats is likely gone in a year and the Wings will be lucky if Zetterberg can remain at season after another season or two. Right now only Jarnkrok is looking like a true top 6 center (perhaps Sheahan). This is why I'd totally accept a Weiss for Flip trade if we could resign him.

2. Say no we are going to make the playoffs and fix this roster. Immediately trade for a defensive D than can play with Kronner. I don't care if he is old or slow. Lashoff is not a number 2 dman (he's probably and ok 6). We need a legit defensive dman that can play heavy minutes on the PK (thus taking Kronner off of it) and will allow Kronwall to play his game. Stop fing around with the offensive voids that are Cleary and Abs and put players that have at least exuded some offensive talent in the top 6. I'm looking at Eaves and Tatar. Heck I'd even try Tootoo up there as he at least can provide an energy spark. Stop putting Brunner out in areas where he will fail defensively IE the point on the PP and out late in tied or close games. If Helm doesn't look like he is going to be back soon, you also need to trade for a center. 4th or 3rd line, I don't care but Abby cannot play center. If cannot do the above then you move to option 1 and start doing something productive.

As a fan I could handle either option but failing to do either is a waste of a season. The Wings cannot afford to lose a season. And Bob you are entirely right, the media needs to start forcing these points/ questions.

I pick option 1. Like others have said we won't need a "Full Rebuild" in the form of Edmonton, Chicago, Pittsburgh. We have some parts. What we need is a couple of our prospects to turn into what they are projected. Tatar I think is a lock to be at least a top 6 winger, ideally 2nd line. If we play all our young guys now....we will probably get a lottery pick hopefully top 5. It's a short season so we wouldn't have to put up with the ineptitude for very long.

-Trade Filpulla for a pick, hope like hell someone offers a 1st round, but I would settle for a mean stay at home defenseman.
- Trade Kindl or LET HIM PLAY.
- Let Sammy/Cleary/Mursak go or trade them

Hope like hell you can some how land Seth Jones in the draft. We would have to tank hard but for one season I can deal with it.

Throw everything you've got at one of either Getzlaf or Perry if they reach free agency. Don't try the low ball crap. Make an offer that will NOT be beat.

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Old
02-22-2013, 11:12 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Hey coach, you benched Kindl for being in the wrong spot on the Flip/Kronwall debacle, what did you think of Lashoff's positioning on Brunner's giveaway?
Well he looked like he never laced them up. Not his fault (nor Kronwall's) he/they are set up to fail. That pairing does not work it is beyond obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Criticizing poor play and making outrageously false claims are two totally different things.

Has Lashoff made some rough plays? Hell yeah he has, but people are so keen to pick him apart that they miss the other 75% of his play that's actually pretty damned good considering.
I think most of us are fine with Lashoff, but we seem to think he is given a much bigger role than he should. That's the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
I don't think any "outrageous" false claims have been made here. And 75% of good play by Lash is a very big exaggeration.

He has shown some flashes of potential and may end up being a very solid PK minute-muncher somewhere down the line but the reality is that he is out of his league right now and Babcock continues to put him in positions to fail more often than he will succeed.
Agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19 for president View Post
Right now this team is not set up to win. So the question has to be asked of what we are doing for the rest of this season, and a decision needs to be made.

Either

1. Start the rebuild. This means dealing off any spare older parts that the Wings can, and starting to play the kids that are at least mentally ready. This means Smith (once healthy), Lashoff, Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar should all be playing (both 5 on 5 and on special teams). This means that players like Miller, Sammy, Bert, Cleary, and Eaves should all be benched or moved so that the above players have spots. You call up guys like Sheahan, Mrzaek and Ferraro to get in a few games here and there. I'd also consider dealing Flip if the Wings can, especially for a center or dman of a similar age (25-29). I'd also consider dealing Franzen if we could get a solid deal for him. Dats is likely gone in a year and the Wings will be lucky if Zetterberg can remain at season after another season or two. Right now only Jarnkrok is looking like a true top 6 center (perhaps Sheahan). This is why I'd totally accept a Weiss for Flip trade if we could resign him.

2. Say no we are going to make the playoffs and fix this roster. Immediately trade for a defensive D than can play with Kronner. I don't care if he is old or slow. Lashoff is not a number 2 dman (he's probably and ok 6). We need a legit defensive dman that can play heavy minutes on the PK (thus taking Kronner off of it) and will allow Kronwall to play his game. Stop fing around with the offensive voids that are Cleary and Abs and put players that have at least exuded some offensive talent in the top 6. I'm looking at Eaves and Tatar. Heck I'd even try Tootoo up there as he at least can provide an energy spark. Stop putting Brunner out in areas where he will fail defensively IE the point on the PP and out late in tied or close games. If Helm doesn't look like he is going to be back soon, you also need to trade for a center. 4th or 3rd line, I don't care but Abby cannot play center. If cannot do the above then you move to option 1 and start doing something productive.

As a fan I could handle either option but failing to do either is a waste of a season. The Wings cannot afford to lose a season. And Bob you are entirely right, the media needs to start forcing these points/ questions.
I think Holland and Babcock are in a kind of no mans land, and I agree with you, they should choose one of the opsions.
I think we have Z and Dastyuk who are top players in the league and we should go for the playoffs and try the best.
The question is whether Babcock and Holland are on the same page.

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02-22-2013, 11:48 AM
  #69
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This team is now 15-20-7 in their last 42 games (including last season and the playoffs). Almost twice as man losses as wins. You mad yet?

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02-22-2013, 11:53 AM
  #70
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Why do you feel the need to waste internet space? 95% of the other threads have this same crap. I'm sure you can find a way to slip this drivel somewhere else. Better yet, why don't you email them directly about the matter. Ansar Khan's been great with answering my questions whenever I pop him one.
Well he could email the media members and ask them, but how can you grandstand by doing that?

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02-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #71
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great thread. the wings media really does suck.

babcock is just too stubborn. some of the decisions are plain bizarre.

i think it's time for him to go.

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The best Wings beat writer over the past few years was Bruce MacLeod -- he always dug deeper than most of the reporters and often broke news first. It's too bad he moved on.
he really was great.

now we're stuck with Malik's drivel. :(

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02-22-2013, 04:20 PM
  #72
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I don't think Babcock should be let go. We all knew it would be a rough season. This rough, maybe not. But Babs is a great coach with a powerful team in front of him, and after this rebuilding phase is over I think he will be the best coach for the team. I don't think a fire sale abandon ship attitude is the way to go. It's a rough season but we'll get through it, and eventually become a powerhouse contender again.

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02-22-2013, 04:30 PM
  #73
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Lots a bs in this thread, but it doesnt make Bob wrong.

The media in Detroit has done nothing to put any sort of pressure on the Wings. I do not mean in respect to UFAs in the offseason, but with playing time, roles, lineups and line combos (both defense and offense).

I personally do not have a problem with Lashoff. I like the kid...as a second pairing or third pairing PK guy.

But Cleary on the PP, Datsyuk centering Cleary and Abdelkader (da fuk?), Lashoff (rookie) with Kronwall (liability), Kindl not playing over the likes of Huskins (UFA with no job until the Wings called), waiving Mursak over older, more expensive, and equally as ineffective other vets...

These things need to be shoved in the front offices' collective faces, early and often.

The Tigers went to the World Series last year (got that ass kicked) and Leyland cant go a ******* day without having to discuss his lineups. Nary a peep about the Wings lineups and combos that absolutely suck.

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02-22-2013, 04:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
I don't think Babcock should be let go. We all knew it would be a rough season. This rough, maybe not. But Babs is a great coach with a powerful team in front of him, and after this rebuilding phase is over I think he will be the best coach for the team. I don't think a fire sale abandon ship attitude is the way to go. It's a rough season but we'll get through it, and eventually become a powerhouse contender again.
Its my personal take to chalk up this (so far) abysmal season to injuries. It is a legit excuse.

But even a fully healthy roster as currently constructed is no Cup threat by even the most homerific among us.

Let the season play as is for the time being and, inevitably imo, the losses will pile up and we sell at the deadline.

Flip
Kronwall
Samuelsson
Franzen (yeah right...whose going to take that albatross contract)
Howard

...all on the chopping block for the right offer. I would unload as many vets for draft picks as possible (Cleary, Eaves, Miller).

Get younger, faster and hungrier overnight. It would force Babcock to play the kids in more prominent roles (Tatar, Andersson, Emmerton (meh..PK maybe), etc).

Its not tanking, imo. Its realizing and addressing the completely flawed roster that currently exists. Grab Jay-Bo out of Calgary for Kronwall, slip Flip in a deal for Weiss and turn the rest into bonafide NHL defensemen. Call up Nyquist and ride it out.

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02-22-2013, 04:42 PM
  #75
The Zetterberg Era
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Kronwall won't be made available, I just don't see it. They should listen to offers on anyone, but I don't think anybody will come with anything to actually move Kronwall.

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