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Brian Burke returns to Ducks in a Part-Time Professional Scouting Position

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Old
02-21-2013, 10:52 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
I have given murray some props for his drafting but it's like he's a Draft genius.
Whats wrong withs Burkes results? Hes had mostly late 1st the only lottery pick he had he hit a homerun
Seguin over Kessel? That was a mistake. That topic is still piping hot for some maple leaf fans.

Edit: Why does Kessel get brought up in almost every Toronto trade proposal? You think they would do the same if Seguin was drafted over the trade for Kessel? I doubt it

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02-21-2013, 10:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Murray has done a fine job, and it's absolutely ridiculous for you to dismiss the drafting Murray has done. Why couldn't Burke get the same results?
I completely agree with this. You are nuts thinking Murray hasn't been drafting well since he started here. Top 9 prospect pool in the NHL so far with acquisitions made by BM.

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02-21-2013, 11:15 PM
  #78
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I think far too much credit is being given to the Gms for our drafting. The scouts are the ones who actually go and watch all of the players and do the analyzing of the players.

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02-21-2013, 11:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Getzy15 View Post
I think far too much credit is being given to the Gms for our drafting. The scouts are the ones who actually go and watch all of the players and do the analyzing of the players.
This

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02-21-2013, 11:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Getzy15 View Post
I think far too much credit is being given to the Gms for our drafting. The scouts are the ones who actually go and watch all of the players and do the analyzing of the players.
Do you think that we just hit a patch where the best players available were almost always from North America, and that Toronto just happened to hit a similar patch while Burke was there? The GMs don't do all of the scouting, though they do a little, but they have a major hand in who gets picked. It's not like the scouts just hand them a list of names to call out on draft day.

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02-21-2013, 11:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Do you think that we just hit a patch where the best players available were almost always from North America, and that Toronto just happened to hit a similar patch while Burke was there? The GMs don't do all of the scouting, though they do a little, but they have a major hand in who gets picked. It's not like the scouts just hand them a list of names to call out on draft day.
No doubt, but I think it's more the scouting team, then the GM. BM clearly has a better team than Burke

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02-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Do you think that we just hit a patch where the best players available were almost always from North America, and that Toronto just happened to hit a similar patch while Burke was there? The GMs don't do all of the scouting, though they do a little, but they have a major hand in who gets picked. It's not like the scouts just hand them a list of names to call out on draft day.
Absolutely. They have a major say in who gets picked. But the info they have to make those decisions is gathered by the scouts.

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02-21-2013, 11:57 PM
  #83
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Is that why Dean Lombardi was at the Plymouth game scouting Ryan Hartman or why nearly every GM in the league was at the Top American Prospects game? Wasn't it reported that Murray and the scouts decided that Hampus was their guy while watching him play at the U-18s? The scouts supply some of the info, but it is not all in the hands of the scouts.

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02-22-2013, 12:16 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
This
And guess who pulls the calls? The GM. I'm sorry but GMs don't only sit on the phones they also scout as well. Have you seen moneyball yah that's about 20 percent arguably of what goes on for a GM. They also scout as well.

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02-22-2013, 12:18 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Is that why Dean Lombardi was at the Plymouth game scouting Ryan Hartman or why nearly every GM in the league was at the Top American Prospects game? Wasn't it reported that Murray and the scouts decided that Hampus was their guy while watching him play at the U-18s? The scouts supply some of the info, but it is not all in the hands of the scouts.
The scouts are watching games night in and night out. You think BM is out watching all the draft eligible players every night? Or flying to Europe to watch players play there throughout the season? Of course not. BM has a huge hand in picking the players in the sense that he decides what needs on the team have to be addressed. But the scouts are the ones telling him the strengths and weaknesses of each player, projected potential, etc. Gms don't have time to be watching and analyzing the players to the extent the scouts do. Of course he's at the top prospects game cause they are all playing at once. But the scouts watch these players throughout the season.

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02-22-2013, 12:19 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Is that why Dean Lombardi was at the Plymouth game scouting Ryan Hartman or why nearly every GM in the league was at the Top American Prospects game? Wasn't it reported that Murray and the scouts decided that Hampus was their guy while watching him play at the U-18s? The scouts supply some of the info, but it is not all in the hands of the scouts.
He also said 5-8 other GMs were going to pull the trigger on him. GM BM has the last say. He scouts internationally! To say our scouts call all the shots is hyposterous without GM BM approval WHO also contributes to our scouting staff and is the maker or breaker for trades and drafting!

Thanks for the post ED I fully support this

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02-22-2013, 12:22 AM
  #87
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Just think about how many players are draft eligible. There is no way BM watches all of them play. Especially the ones in Europe. And how much can you gather from one prospects game.

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02-22-2013, 12:23 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
He also said 5-8 other GMs were going to pull the trigger on him. GM BM has the last say. He scouts internationally! To say our scouts call all the shots is hyposterous without GM BM approval WHO also contributes.
That's exactly what it is.

GM's set the tone of the franchise, the direction. Burke likes NA guys that hit and have some minimum level of skill. Murray likes handsy guys with wheels. But every GM relies on his scouts, because he can't spend all his time watching prospects or sifting through low-def game tapes.

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02-22-2013, 12:30 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
And guess who pulls the calls? The GM. I'm sorry but GMs don't only sit on the phones they also scout as well. Have you seen moneyball yah that's about 20 percent arguably of what goes on for a GM. They also scout as well.
Never said the GM sits on the phones, but the scouts do much more of the actual scouting than the GM. The GM tells them which games/players to keep an eye on mostly

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02-22-2013, 12:33 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
He also said 5-8 other GMs were going to pull the trigger on him. GM BM has the last say. He scouts internationally! To say our scouts call all the shots is hyposterous without GM BM approval WHO also contributes to our scouting staff and is the maker or breaker for trades and drafting!

Thanks for the post ED I fully support this
I'm not saying the scouts call all the shots. I'm saying the scouting staff has the info on all the players. BM goes to watch players the scouting staff are interested in. They all work together

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02-22-2013, 12:48 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Too bad he can't change positions with Murray
I still can't comprehend how a gm that brought us a cup and had a competitive team every year he was here. His drafting record was Ok but that has to do with the staff which BM was a part of.
What a joke
I am not arguing with 90 percent of you. I am arguing with a blatant statement that is foolish like this one. Murray did have a part of our organizational draft and depth. I guess me and other ducks fans will appreciate the Etem, Lindholm, Kerdiles, and Vatanen acquisitions ++ under BM. Lets see Burke pull a 4th rounder in Vatanen into a arguable NHL ready d man. Just laughable. I agree with ya Soj. BM has done a fine job.

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02-22-2013, 01:15 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
I am not arguing with 90 percent of you. I am arguing with a blatant statement that is foolish like this one. Murray did have a part of our organizational draft and depth. I guess me and other ducks fans will appreciate the Etem, Lindholm, Kerdiles, and Vatanen acquisitions ++ under BM. Lets see Burke pull a 4th rounder in Vatanen into a arguable NHL ready d man. Just laughable. I agree with ya Soj. BM has done a fine job.
Your posts make me scratch my head all the time.. It's always about youth and agreeing with people after you flip flop your opinions.

Anyhow it's completely a crap shoot when you get into later rounds so your comment about Vatanen is ridiculous. However if you insist Burke has been there and done that. Drafted Kevin Bieksa in the 5th round. So much for that theory. It's just laughable!

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02-22-2013, 01:20 AM
  #93
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This is a great move. Burke is a player's GM. So I imagine this position allows him to interact with FA's or soon to be FA's which helps us IMO. Just keep him away from the draft boards.

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02-22-2013, 02:39 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Burke

2005
Ryan (2) Mikkelsson (31) (could've drafted James Neal) Bailey (63) could've had Quick or Russell, Bolt (127), Salcido (141), Levasseur (197)

2006
Mitera (19)...Giroux was picked next. Swan (38) Lucic, Petry, Anisimov, McBain passed up. De Gray (83), Beleskey (112) Wirtanen (172)

2007
MacMillan (19) over Pacioretty, Backlund, and Perron. Eric Tangradi (42), Subban was selected next and from the same team. Macenauer (63) Vaive and Kampfer (92 and 93) instead of Martinez, Omark, Frattin, King, Falk, Halishuk. Modig (121) over Jamie Benn.

Not one solid NHLer from that draft.

2008: The one year Burke made some okay picks, but he STILL could've had a better draft.

1.) Jake Gardiner. (17) Trade down from 12 where Tyler Myers was selected. Karlsson went 15th. Jordan Eberle went 4 picks later.
2.) Nic Deschamps (35) something about him having like 37 points in 54 games. Or something. and Eric O'Dell (39) when we could've had our pick of two of Josi, Wiercioch, Adam, Stepan, Hamonic, or even Scandella.
2.) Justin Schultz a good pick, but he was the third of three second round picks Burke made, so I'm not so sure how confident Burkie was in his talent. And the way it worked out for us. I would've been happier with Stepan or Hamonic.
Brittain (71) Cousineau (83) McMIllan (85) Hegarty (113) Warg (143) Pryor (208)
Well I've never liked BB drafting but the GM is more or less responsilbe for round 1 the rest is under heavy influence by the scouting. Being older has some good things as well, that's how I remember the drafts.

2005: he wanted Bobby after the interview (the best he ever had with a prospect) couldn't trade down and took him at #2; Mikkelson > Neal was a safe thing back then. Mikkelsson was a projected first rounder, Neal a physical questionmark. The funny thing, Neal was a prototype Burke player in my opinion. And Levasseur had starter potential due to some scouts.

2006: Mitera, well, I still think this pic was good, the ACL destroyed him. Grioux was not a Burke type of player, that's it, and noone ever expected him to be so good.

2007: This was an interessting draft. Our scouts loved David Perron Burke took MacMillan, who again was more the type of players he like. Big more physical. Perron again was on the small side and of a risky pic while MacMillan was more of a sure thing. Funny isn't it!

2008: Gardiner was off the board a little bit but quite ok. The big mistake and what I still don't understand. All, really all had us taking Myers and BB said there are 12 players and then there was a clear cut in talent. Myers was all he asked for. Big, talented and NA. Trading down brought us Deschamps who was also projected as a firstrounder, O'Dell was a litte surprise and Schultz who was a pure scouts pic, extremly smallish but talented. Overall Burke brought in some interessting assets but just few turned out to be solid.

To sum it up, I'm really pleased that Bob is in charge now and that he built a great scouting team. We will see how good his pics will turn out. So far Cam has been great, Holland and Palmeri good. On the rest, the judges are still out. To complain about players we should have drafted instead, well, we would not have Getzlaf and Perry then. Teams/GM pass on players for certain reasons. You always take a gamble.

Out of all time, I think the current front office is the best the Ducks ever had. Bryan Murray was very good but I think Bob and his team around is great. Honestly, this is not NHL2013. Anaheim is not the hottest destination for FA, the team has an internal CAP and has to rely on drafting.

FA: was solid so far over the last years
Drafting: very good
CAP Management: there is nothing to complain about
Coaching: He was loyal to Carlyle - I thought that was classy, he brought in BB quickly, another good move

Bob deals the media and the fans weaker than BB or Bryan Murray, I can live with that but I understand that leaves a questionmark on him. Bruce is taking a lot of this off him now. So he is even a better fit as a coach Brian Burke, even if it is for a short period of time will be a good addition. I always thought he knows what it takes to make a contender a winner. The last piece, that's the strenght of Brian Burke. So, if Bob can talk to him about this it is great. I also think that Burke can be instrumental to sign both, Getzlaf and Perry!

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02-22-2013, 03:31 AM
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you know what's funny in 2008 the ducks coveted karlsson and thought they could trade down and still get him, imagine if they had never traded down? just goes to show defensemen are incredibly hard to predict, he is probably the best defensemen from that draft

anyways, i feel like Murray does a good job managing the draft, 2010 nobody would have blamed him at all paying the price to move up and grab Fowler but the staff was able to predict correctly he would still be available, and then not having to give up anything to get Etem. 2011 looks like it was managed very well, turning a mid 20's pick into Rakell AND Gibson.

can't hurt to have BB around i didn't care for how he left but i like having his influence around BM


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02-22-2013, 04:25 AM
  #96
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In regards to crediting the team of amateur scouts for good drafting. Sure, they deserve most of the credit. But guess who puts those teams together? Some of them we've had for a while, but the decision to bring someone in who's evaluation you're able to trust and who has such a good shot of making good calls is obviously immensely important. It's not like there's anything holding other teams, especially ones with the means of Toronto, back from assembling the best possible scouting teams. Yet that's obviously a difficult thing to do, so at the end of the day, credit goes back to all people involved, including Murray.

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02-22-2013, 04:50 AM
  #97
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you know what's funny in 2008 the ducks coveted karlsson and thought they could trade down and still get him, imagine if they had never traded down? just goes to show defensemen are incredibly hard to predict, he is probably the best defensemen from that draft

anyways, i feel like Murray does a good job managing the draft, 2010 nobody would have blamed him at all paying the price to move up and grab Fowler but the staff was able to predict correctly he would still be available, and then not having to give up anything to get Etem. 2011 looks like it was managed very well, turning a mid 20's pick into Rakell AND Gibson.

can't hurt to have BB around i didn't care for how he left but i like having his influence around BM
You can predict nothing in the draft unless you have a top3 pick, imo. It`s just a gamble, you never know what anyone else would pick.

BM didn`t predicted that Fowler will be there. We even didn`t had a jersey with his name tag.

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02-22-2013, 06:35 AM
  #98
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I'm not saying the scouts call all the shots. I'm saying the scouting staff has the info on all the players. BM goes to watch players the scouting staff are interested in. They all work together
You said that we should ignore the draft record because it was all the scouts. It isn't. Our GM doesn't see every player that is available, but he does see many of them. That is a part of their jobs. His draft record should be something he gets credit for.


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02-22-2013, 09:33 AM
  #99
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You said that we should ignore the draft record because it was all the scouts. It isn't. Our GM doesn't see every player that is available, but he does see many of them. That is a part of their jobs. His draft record should be something he gets credit for.
I never said ignore their draft record. What I said was too much credit is being given to the GM. I never said they didn't deserve any credit at all.

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02-22-2013, 01:50 PM
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Let's face it, Burke isn't here to help the Ducks. He's here so he can stay involved in the game without staying with the Leafs. It's either this or back to TSN.

As for scouting, the GM CAN play a vital role in the quality of the team's drafting, but ultimately, it's the scouts. Some GMs take a handsoff approach and let the scouts do all the work. Some GMs take more of an active role and either does a lot of scouting himself or sets the direction. You sometimes see clear shifts in draft preferences and that is initiated by the GM. For example, Burke clearly has developed a preference for NA players with size and grit. This could be a big problem if the team's amateur scouts' strengths aren't in identifying players that fits Burke's preferences. That's why I say that GMs can play a vital role in the quality of the team's drafting.

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