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DW looking for another winger

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:37 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
You misspelled the word "their" haha.
"supposed to me" as well, I'm guessing. Similarily, English is not my mother tongue as well. Just saying Nothing serious.

On a serious note; what do you guys think of a deal for either Stafford or Kulemin? Both may benefit from a change of scenery. Kulemin could as well replace some of the toughness we get from Clowe 'if' Clowe is involved in some deal or simply be a nice addition alongside Clowe on a revamped third line per say.

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02-21-2013, 08:30 PM
  #802
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The off-season will be tough. They have only 10.5 mil in cap space with four 'regulars' as RFA's, Clowe, Handzus, Gomez, Kennedy, Murray, and Greiss as UFA's. They will probably find a way to re-sign Irwin and put him on the big club. That means they will have to trade or buyout a d-man. If it's not Boyle then it's Braun or Demers. I would prefer Boyle but chances are it will be Demers the way they have handled him.

The only way this team will get another superstar is via the draft one way or the other. Either they draft and develop one themselves or they accumulate solid draft picks and trade them for one like how Thornton was originally acquired. Problem is, they will still be good enough to make the playoffs next year to do a rebuild since neither Marleau nor Thornton will be traded, I feel. I think Havlat could be dealt since his clause seems to have windows but I wouldn't since his speed and puck-handling are needed on this team.

I'm hoping the team finally gets it in their head that they need to build a scoring 3rd line rather than a pathetic attempt at a shutdown line. If not, they will be a two-line team again that is streaky.

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02-21-2013, 08:40 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The off-season will be tough. They have only 10.5 mil in cap space with four 'regulars' as RFA's, Clowe, Handzus, Gomez, Kennedy, Murray, and Greiss as UFA's. They will probably find a way to re-sign Irwin and put him on the big club. That means they will have to trade or buyout a d-man. If it's not Boyle then it's Braun or Demers. I would prefer Boyle but chances are it will be Demers the way they have handled him.

The only way this team will get another superstar is via the draft one way or the other. Either they draft and develop one themselves or they accumulate solid draft picks and trade them for one like how Thornton was originally acquired. Problem is, they will still be good enough to make the playoffs next year to do a rebuild since neither Marleau nor Thornton will be traded, I feel. I think Havlat could be dealt since his clause seems to have windows but I wouldn't since his speed and puck-handling are needed on this team.

I'm hoping the team finally gets it in their head that they need to build a scoring 3rd line rather than a pathetic attempt at a shutdown line. If not, they will be a two-line team again that is streaky.
Assuming all the RFA's (except Demers) are qualified, they'll have $6.5M with 10 forwards and 6 defenseman signed. Unless Demers and/or Clowe take a discount, I don't see how they could keep both. They'll likely let Clowe walk. Say they get a 4th liner + 13th forward for $1.5M, they leaves $5M to replace Clowe and re-sign Demers. Next season will hinge on whether one of Galiardi/Sheppard/Wingels, or maybe even Kennedy can step into that role before this season is over.

This is also hoping that none of the RFA's have delusions of grandeur and holdout, but I don't think that will happen considering they're all project players.

Knowing DW, though, I'll bet he gives Clowe, Murray, and Handzus raises and deals Boyle for a 2nd to clear cap space.

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02-21-2013, 09:15 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by TealManV View Post
I've always been a big fan of Nino Niederreitter and was hoping that DW would have made a move up to draft him a few years back. Now he reportedly wants a deal because the Islanders are keeping him in the minors. The Isles could use a good, young, puck moving d-man and we could use a good, young, talented winger. Maybe a Demers for Nino? Thoughts?
Honestly, I'm not interested. He was rushed pretty badly into the league, and even before that he was overhyped because he played well vs Canada at the World Juniors.

I doubt the org is interested either considering we have as many Swiss players as Russians. I'm sure there's some Kopitar-logic involved there too. Right or wrong, this is how they think: How many Swiss players are there in the NHL?

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02-21-2013, 09:22 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Honestly, I'm not interested. He was rushed pretty badly into the league, and even before that he was overhyped because he played well vs Canada at the World Juniors.

I doubt the org is interested either considering we have as many Swiss players as Russians. I'm sure there's some Kopitar-logic involved there too. Right or wrong, this is how they think: How many Swiss players are there in the NHL?
Swiss players are trending upward like crazy, they obviously have made huge strides in their development programs the last few years.
I watched their national team play USA in Vancouver, fast and disciplined.
I would do a Demers for Nino trade, for sure. idk who has more value honestly.

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02-21-2013, 09:32 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Honestly, I'm not interested. He was rushed pretty badly into the league, and even before that he was overhyped because he played well vs Canada at the World Juniors.

I doubt the org is interested either considering we have as many Swiss players as Russians. I'm sure there's some Kopitar-logic involved there too. Right or wrong, this is how they think: How many Swiss players are there in the NHL?
I like Nino, he's done really good in the AHL this season. He was certainly overhyped because of the WJC, but I still like him.

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02-21-2013, 10:07 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The only way this team will get another superstar is via the draft one way or the other.
You're probably right, but I wish one of these years (or should I say, one of these decades) I'd like to see the Sharks trade (or acquire through waivers or even free agency I suppose) for another team's garbage and then such player in our system flourishes into a superstar (or very good), like the Panthers waiving Grabner and the Isles pick him up and he scores 34 goals that year. I know Grabner was a 1st round pick, but still, somehow he was exposed on waivers and showed up huge for the Isles.

I say once a decade because it doesn't happen often, but when it does it's beautiful. Would be spectacular if you do it when you are a contender and it elevates you to a Cup contender/champion.

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02-21-2013, 11:15 PM
  #808
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I see no reason why Demers wouldn't take a qualifying offer of 1.4 - while we all know his potential he has done little to deserve a bigger raise. Same goes for the other RFAs (Sheppard, Galiardi, Desjardins) the lone exception in my mind is Wingels - and even then it would be a very modest raise.

Assuming all the RFAs are signed to qualifying offers it leaves the DW with about 5.5 mil to sign a 3C and a second line center.

Also with the cap dropping significantly I could see the going rate for UFAs dropping a bit. One player I would target is V. Stalberg as he could be an affordable winger that could give the team more speed and possibly with the development of his brother get a family connection going.

Also of note is that Greiss is an UFA after this season - I can't see him re-signing at the same or similar contract and probably the Sharks are going to have to promote one of the AHL guys to take his place.

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02-21-2013, 11:16 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by jMoneyBrah View Post
Assuming all the RFAs are signed to qualifying offers it leaves the DW with about 5.5 mil to sign a 3C and a second line winger.
Oops

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Old
02-21-2013, 11:35 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by jMoneyBrah View Post
Oops
You know you could just edit your post right?

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02-21-2013, 11:36 PM
  #811
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My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Martin Havlat ($5.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.998m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / James Sheppard ($0.866m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.704m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m)
John McCarthy ($0.613m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($1.400m)
Matt Irwin ($0.715m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
J.P. Anderson ($0.537m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,096,639; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $203,361


My attempt at a lineup. Someone has to step it up to take Clowe's spot...

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02-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Martin Havlat ($5.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.998m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / James Sheppard ($0.866m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.704m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m)
John McCarthy ($0.613m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($1.400m)
Matt Irwin ($0.715m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
J.P. Anderson ($0.537m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,096,639; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $203,361


My attempt at a lineup. Someone has to step it up to take Clowe's spot...
I'm confused. Is this a lineup for this season or next season? If it is for next season there are a couple of issues. JP Anderson can't back up. I don't think he even has 1 AHL game played. It would most likely be Stalock or Sateri. The other issue is that Stephen Weiss is going to be severely overpaid by a team. No way we could get him for 3.1 and he wouldn't want to be a 3C.

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02-22-2013, 12:07 AM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Martin Havlat ($5.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.998m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / James Sheppard ($0.866m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.704m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m)
John McCarthy ($0.613m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($1.400m)
Matt Irwin ($0.715m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
J.P. Anderson ($0.537m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,096,639; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $203,361

My attempt at a lineup. Someone has to step it up to take Clowe's spot...
The Sharks get a lot more flexibility if they are able to buy-out Burish. 1.8 million for a 4th liner is just too much.

On the actual salaries, you don't really need 14 forwards. Could take one out and have more flexibility cap-wise. Replace Anderson with Stalock (Stalock making anywhere from 650k-800k). I also don't see Sheppard or Desjardins making that little money. Those are very miniscule raises. I'm fine with the choices of Miller and Weiss, but Miller isn't going to take that little either and Weiss is definitely getting a raise.
I also don't want Wingels in the Top-6. He isn't a Top-6 player. If everyone plays up to potential, a Galiardi - Sheppard - Wingels line is a fine 3rd line. Then move Weiss to 2C and Couture to LW.

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02-22-2013, 12:13 AM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I'm confused. Is this a lineup for this season or next season? If it is for next season there are a couple of issues. JP Anderson can't back up. I don't think he even has 1 AHL game played. It would most likely be Stalock or Sateri. The other issue is that Stephen Weiss is going to be severely overpaid by a team. No way we could get him for 3.1 and he wouldn't want to be a 3C.
Right, Anderson was just a capgeek slipup.

Weiss has had a poor start to this year...and many other teams are having cap issues. I'm hoping SJ will be able to scoop him up.

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02-22-2013, 12:16 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
The Sharks get a lot more flexibility if they are able to buy-out Burish. 1.8 million for a 4th liner is just too much.

On the actual salaries, you don't really need 14 forwards. Could take one out and have more flexibility cap-wise. Replace Anderson with Stalock (Stalock making anywhere from 650k-800k). I also don't see Sheppard or Desjardins making that little money. Those are very miniscule raises. I'm fine with the choices of Miller and Weiss, but Miller isn't going to take that little either and Weiss is definitely getting a raise.
I also don't want Wingels in the Top-6. He isn't a Top-6 player. If everyone plays up to potential, a Galiardi - Sheppard - Wingels line is a fine 3rd line. Then move Weiss to 2C and Couture to LW.
1.8 is too much, but I cannot see the Sharks buying a player out.

Sheppard is interesting. If he deserves to make more, that means he is playing better, which means he can play in the top-6. But otherwise, I can't see him making more than 1.3-1.5 million in any case.

In regards to Desjardins, history teaches us this. 4th liners get paid like fourth liners; there are numerous players that could take Desjardins's spot; he gets his qualifying offer and nothing more. After all, Scott Nichol played well for San Jose (plus he brought penalty killing), and he never got a raise over his very modest salary.

As good as Drew Miller is, he is still basically a 4th liner. With teams facing a cap crunch, I can't see him getting that much of a raise. In any case, he's not a vital acquisition.

I've explained my reasonings for Weiss. Another player I'd like to target on the cheap is Simon Gagne...

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02-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
1.8 is too much, but I cannot see the Sharks buying a player out.

Sheppard is interesting. If he deserves to make more, that means he is playing better, which means he can play in the top-6. But otherwise, I can't see him making more than 1.3-1.5 million in any case.
Yeah, they probably won't buy him out. I'm saying they should though.
I could see Sheppard getting 1-1.2. His contract right now was mostly just a "here's some money, prove to us that you deserve it". From what I've seen, he looks really good out there. A slight raise just to keep him happy. 100-300k won't break the bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
In regards to Desjardins, history teaches us this. 4th liners get paid like fourth liners; there are numerous players that could take Desjardins's spot; he gets his qualifying offer and nothing more. After all, Scott Nichol played well for San Jose (plus he brought penalty killing), and he never got a raise over his very modest salary.

As good as Drew Miller is, he is still basically a 4th liner. With teams facing a cap crunch, I can't see him getting that much of a raise. In any case, he's not a vital acquisition.
Fair enough. Desjardins/Nichol isn't a great comparison though. Nichol was an aging player on the decline. Players in the 35+ range typically don't get raises. Desjardins is a young player entering his good years. A 100-200k raise builds a better relationship. It really depends on how well he improves this season though. Right now, he hasn't shown that he deserves a raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I've explained my reasonings for Weiss. Another player I'd like to target on the cheap is Simon Gagne...
Even with cap-troubles, I seriously doubt Weiss is going to go for the exact same contract. He'll definitely look for a raise and a team will give it to him.

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02-22-2013, 12:28 AM
  #817
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He should be looking for another job.

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02-22-2013, 12:47 AM
  #818
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Even with cap-troubles, I seriously doubt Weiss is going to go for the exact same contract. He'll definitely look for a raise and a team will give it to him.
This is going to be the issue with the Sharks. They don't have the money to sign the players they need, regardless of the source. Assuming they fill their fourth line and a spare with approproiate players (a spare from Worcester, Desjardins at ~700,000, Burish, and then either Galliardi or a UFA at ~800,000), the team will have around 5.5 million to fill two 3rd line-spots, and one second-line spot.

The best hope is that Galliardi and Sheppard can claim those spots, because then you can get a bit of a discount. For example, since at best Sheppard is a longshot to be able to get 2nd-line-duty, you could probably get both on the 3rd line for 3 million. That doesn't give you enough to sign a quality 2nd-liner.

My bet would be that Sheppard takes that 3rd line spot at around 1.1-1.3, and the Sharks have to get a 2nd and third liner player from free agency. If they went league minimum on the 3rd liner, they'd have just enough to get a good 2nd liner who wasn't in a bidding war. If they get in a bidding war, they'll have to settle for Miettinen or Brunner...I'm hoping they could snag someone like Weiss or Gagne for a reasonable price.

On the positive, the rest of the league is going to be facing these same issues.

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02-22-2013, 12:58 AM
  #819
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A potentially offensive suggestion:

Last year, there was a rumor that Dan Boyle was going to be traded for Gaborik. Let us assume that Dan Boyle has that similar kind of value.

What if the Sharks traded Boyle? Assuming they got no rosterable assets back, they'd have a lot more to play with; money I would use to sign a replacement D-man:





CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
John McCarthy ($0.613m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.704m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Clarke MacArthur ($4.250m) / James Sheppard ($1.300m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m)
Antti Miettinen ($1.800m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Ian White ($4.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.600m)
Justin Braun ($1.250m) / Jason Demers ($1.400m)
Matt Irwin ($0.715m) /
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.722m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.104% of upper limit)
Dan Boyle ($0.067m—1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,467,542; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $832,458
------
CALCULATOR LOG
* Jason Demers signed as free agent for $1,400,000.
* Matt Irwin signed as free agent for $715,000.
* Alex Stalock signed as free agent for $721,875.
* Andrew Desjardins signed as free agent for $704,000.
* John McCarthy recalled.
* Drew Miller signed as free agent for $837,500.
* Traded Dan Boyle and retained 1.000% of cap hit.
* Ian White signed as free agent for $2,875,000.
* Cap hit for Ian White set as $4,000,000.
* Clarke MacArthur signed as free agent for $3,250,000.
* Cap hit for Clarke MacArthur set as $4,250,000.
* James Sheppard signed as free agent for $866,250.
* Cap hit for James Sheppard set as $1,300,000.
* Antti Miettinen signed as free agent for $1,351,293.
* Cap hit for Antti Miettinen set as $1,800,000.

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02-22-2013, 01:35 AM
  #820
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^ Is there some ultra talented prospect coming up 2014 draft?

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02-22-2013, 02:36 AM
  #821
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^ Is there some ultra talented prospect coming up 2014 draft?
I don't follow. Were there an ultra-talented prospect next year, that roster isn't going to be bad enough to get that 1st-overall pick....

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02-22-2013, 02:40 AM
  #822
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On the positive, the rest of the league is going to be facing these same issues.
This is spot on. The bidding for second tiers players should not be as aggressive this off-season.

I disagree about JT/Marleau decline. I have gone over it with players with similar physical attributes. They should decline on the same timeline. And they are already declining although it isn't entirely visible in their point totals. The decline will actually be more in their ability to drive possession and react defensively than in their ability to score.

I liked the thought on Weiss as an option, but wonder if Florida would really part with him.

For others,
If the Sharks rebuild and fall out of the playoffs, they will pay for it at the gate as they did with the Nolan/Selanne/Damp fiasco. It took the surprise WCF and a couple of years to rebuild the STH base. Only TO, NYR, Calgary and Mont are bulletproof locks at the gate. Even Philly failed at the gate when they tanked. Edmonton and Vanc have holes in their attendance history when not competitive. Dallas and Colorado were once considered locks at the gate and aren't now.

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02-22-2013, 04:22 AM
  #823
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
For others,
If the Sharks rebuild and fall out of the playoffs, they will pay for it at the gate as they did with the Nolan/Selanne/Damp fiasco. It took the surprise WCF and a couple of years to rebuild the STH base. Only TO, NYR, Calgary and Mont are bulletproof locks at the gate. Even Philly failed at the gate when they tanked. Edmonton and Vanc have holes in their attendance history when not competitive. Dallas and Colorado were once considered locks at the gate and aren't now.
So we should just accept the fact that the Sharks will never rebuild and be that team that fights for the 8th spot every year and get middle round picks and be stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future unless they get lucky?

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02-22-2013, 09:39 AM
  #824
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Last year, there was a rumor that Dan Boyle was going to be traded for Gaborik. Let us assume that Dan Boyle has that similar kind of value.

What if the Sharks traded Boyle? Assuming they got no rosterable assets back, they'd have a lot more to play with; money I would use to sign a replacement D-man:
Good point. Personally, I am betting that, win or lose this season, this is going to be the case.

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Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
So we should just accept the fact that the Sharks will never rebuild and be that team that fights for the 8th spot every year and get middle round picks and be stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future unless they get lucky?
The D and in the net, we have no re-building to do and up front, Thornton and Patty are still of decent age with a few years ahead of them, followed by some young players in Pav's, Couture, Desjardins, Wingels, Sheppard, Kennedy and Galiardi (aside from any newcomers via free agency and/or trades or one via the system). So, a bit of work in the forwards but, nothing of major necessity other than depth and a skilled addition(s). That is without mentioning Havlat and Clowe in there whom are as well still of decent age but, yet to see what will be done with them this summer 'if' anything. Wondering if Havlat will be a buyout if he cannot turn himself around and bring some much needed offense.

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02-22-2013, 09:53 AM
  #825
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Originally Posted by 19sharks19 View Post
Good point. Personally, I am betting that, win or lose this season, this is going to be the case.



The D and in the net, we have no re-building to do and up front, Thornton and Patty are still of decent age with a few years ahead of them, followed by some young players in Pav's, Couture, Desjardins, Wingels, Sheppard, Kennedy and Galiardi (aside from any newcomers via free agency and/or trades or one via the system). So, a bit of work in the forwards but, nothing of major necessity other than depth and a skilled addition(s). That is without mentioning Havlat and Clowe in there whom are as well still of decent age but, yet to see what will be done with them this summer 'if' anything. Wondering if Havlat will be a buyout if he cannot turn himself around and bring some much needed offense.
You really can't make determinations about who is and is not struggling when the entire team is unable to score. No one is scoring right now, not just Havlat, and until the team as a whole starts putting up goals you can't go pointing fingers at particular players. Havlat looks good on the ice and his underlying stats say he is doing the right things. I expect when we start putting up more than 1-2 goals a night he will start putting up his as well.

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