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MMA General News and Discussion Pt. Deux (Lesnar rumors)

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02-22-2013, 01:13 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Anyone else thing this board could use it's own cuts/signings thread, especially now that we know nearly 100 fighters could be cut from the UFC this year?

Anyways, knowing that more cuts are coming, I'm looking at 157 and seeing who could be cut if they're lost. Schaub has been KO'd twice in a row. If he gets KO'd again vs Lavar, I could see him getting the axe.
Keep in mind they are more likely to cut guys in the divisions that have too many guys, so entertaining heavyweights will still around longer. Guys like Neer and virtually every undercard guy could be candidates though.

As for the other part, I think this thread is just fine as it is. On the topic of threads though, can we delete the 'Spoilers' one? It has zero relevance anymore.

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02-22-2013, 01:25 AM
  #477
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Keep in mind they are more likely to cut guys in the divisions that have too many guys, so entertaining heavyweights will still around longer. Guys like Neer and virtually every undercard guy could be candidates though.

As for the other part, I think this thread is just fine as it is. On the topic of threads though, can we delete the 'Spoilers' one? It has zero relevance anymore.
While it is totally understandable and Brendan has been involved in a KO in every UFC fight but one, three straight KO's would be an easy way to part ways with a fighter.

I am really glad they're doing this. I'm sick of having fights between guys I've never heard about that end up not doing jack **** in their time in the promotion. Let guys build their way up to the UFC moreso than just signing every fighter who shows a lick of skill.

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02-22-2013, 01:39 AM
  #478
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While it is totally understandable and Brendan has been involved in a KO in every UFC fight but one, three straight KO's would be an easy way to part ways with a fighter.

I am really glad they're doing this. I'm sick of having fights between guys I've never heard about that end up not doing jack **** in their time in the promotion. Let guys build their way up to the UFC moreso than just signing every fighter who shows a lick of skill.
Yes, agreed on both. Smaller cards would benefit everyone.

Forgot it would be three for Schaub. So yeah he would be gone with another loss.

Lots of these guys will be back though after they get a few wins.

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02-22-2013, 01:50 AM
  #479
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Don't count on the UFC decreasing the amount of fights per card, it's likely to go the other way in fact. I really don't see the problem with 12 and 13 fights on a card. Those extra fights are basically for the fans in attendance as well as giving the UFC a chance to weed out some of the lower tiered fighters. And if any of the first few fights are good, they'll be shown on either the FX/Sportsnet portion or on the PPV.

http://www.cagepotato.com/report-ufc...rce-transfers/

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02-22-2013, 02:26 AM
  #480
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Don't count on the UFC decreasing the amount of fights per card, it's likely to go the other way in fact. I really don't see the problem with 12 and 13 fights on a card. Those extra fights are basically for the fans in attendance as well as giving the UFC a chance to weed out some of the lower tiered fighters. And if any of the first few fights are good, they'll be shown on either the FX/Sportsnet portion or on the PPV.

http://www.cagepotato.com/report-ufc...rce-transfers/
And therein lies the problem. Why have these low end guys here at all? Most fights are ****ing EMPTY until at least later in the prelims. You watch the Facebook prelims for most fights and it's usually family members of fighters, training partners, and diehard MMA fans.

Weed out these super low level fights. Let them take place on the independent circuit.

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02-22-2013, 07:52 AM
  #481
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i see no reason to lower the amount of fights on a card. i watch bellator amd i think a lot of these prelim fighters are better then half the bellator guys. they defiantly deserve to be in the ufc to see what they got.

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02-22-2013, 09:48 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
And therein lies the problem. Why have these low end guys here at all? Most fights are ****ing EMPTY until at least later in the prelims. You watch the Facebook prelims for most fights and it's usually family members of fighters, training partners, and diehard MMA fans.

Weed out these super low level fights. Let them take place on the independent circuit.
The question I have, is why does it bother you? Because when you make your picks on here you don't know who some of the fighters are? It's really a silly complaint IMO. If you don't care about those fights, don't watch them.

As for your comment about the arenas being empty for the first fights, that's only been the case for the fights I've gone to in Vegas. Both Vancouver cards as well as the recent card in Seattle were at least at half capacity, probably more, when the first fighters entered the octagon. And in the case of the Seattle card the first fight won both sub of the night and fight of the night honors.

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02-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #483
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Fights I've been to are just empty in the 'sponsor' seats. Everything else is pretty full. The bottom part of the arena was empty... but those are the fans that boo when fighters dont box the entire time.

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02-22-2013, 10:56 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
The question I have, is why does it bother you? Because when you make your picks on here you don't know who some of the fighters are? It's really a silly complaint IMO. If you don't care about those fights, don't watch them.

As for your comment about the arenas being empty for the first fights, that's only been the case for the fights I've gone to in Vegas. Both Vancouver cards as well as the recent card in Seattle were at least at half capacity, probably more, when the first fighters entered the octagon. And in the case of the Seattle card the first fight won both sub of the night and fight of the night honors.
It is a huge drain on the media, for one. Most sporting events they attend aren't 6 or 7 hours long. Also it's a long day for everyone working at the event, and that's when you see screwups. Commentators, judges, doctors, etc.

Plus they want to cut costs, this is another way and it's a better way than cutting actual talent.

Like was said, there are tons of empty seats there as well. I don't think most fans want to sit through that long of a card anyway, so saying it's for the fans is a bit much. For the second Vancouver card it was pretty empty for much of the prelims.

Look at the guys fighting in the bottom couple fights on the UFC cards these days. It's not pretty. These guys aren't UFC calibre.

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02-22-2013, 11:19 AM
  #485
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It is a huge drain on the media, for one. Most sporting events they attend aren't 6 or 7 hours long. Also it's a long day for everyone working at the event, and that's when you see screwups. Commentators, judges, doctors, etc.
I think this is really pushing it. An extra 3/4 fights at the start of the show is an extra hour at most, it's hardly going to have much of an affect on the issues you brought up.

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Plus they want to cut costs, this is another way and it's a better way than cutting actual talent.
The guys that were cut for monetary reasons are the Jon Fitch's and Jackob Volkmann's, hardly entertaining "talent".

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Like was said, there are tons of empty seats there as well. I don't think most fans want to sit through that long of a card anyway, so saying it's for the fans is a bit much. For the second Vancouver card it was pretty empty for much of the prelims.
From what I recall the floor seats were barren but the upper bowl seats were quite full. The latest card in Seattle was nearly full at 1pm.

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Look at the guys fighting in the bottom couple fights on the UFC cards these days. It's not pretty. These guys aren't UFC calibre.
Some aren't and some are. At 158 Dan Miller, Jordan Mein, Yves Jabouin, TJ Dillashaw and George Roop are all likely to be fighting in the first 4 fights. I'd argue they're all UFC calibre.

The complaint I don't understand is what's wrong with having extra fights? Because the media, commentators etc have to work an extra hour? Come on. If the fights suck, who cares? Don't bother watching them. Like I've said, some of the fights turn out to be the best of the night. I really don't see a compelling argument for the UFC getting rid of fights. If they want to pay for them to happen, I say let them.

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02-22-2013, 11:32 AM
  #486
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That's at 158, and I'm sure you picked that card because it's a rarity. The card last week, UFC 157, and the Silva/Stann card have horrible bottom end fights. Plus Mein v Miller is currently slotted as the 8th fight on the card so I'm not sure why you would bring it up anyway. Now that I look at 158 there are a number of guys who aren't really UFC level anyway.

Anyways, I've said my reasons and I'm going to leave it at that. I think the UFC will work towards shorter cards once they clean up their roster and the proof will be there when it happens.

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02-22-2013, 11:33 AM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9 View Post
It is a huge drain on the media, for one. Most sporting events they attend aren't 6 or 7 hours long. Also it's a long day for everyone working at the event, and that's when you see screwups. Commentators, judges, doctors, etc.

Plus they want to cut costs, this is another way and it's a better way than cutting actual talent.

Like was said, there are tons of empty seats there as well. I don't think most fans want to sit through that long of a card anyway, so saying it's for the fans is a bit much. For the second Vancouver card it was pretty empty for much of the prelims.

Look at the guys fighting in the bottom couple fights on the UFC cards these days. It's not pretty. These guys aren't UFC calibre.
an argument to cut fights is because the announcers have to work longer

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02-22-2013, 11:45 AM
  #488
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That's at 158, and I'm sure you picked that card because it's a rarity. The card last week, UFC 157, and the Silva/Stann card have horrible bottom end fights. Plus Mein v Miller is currently slotted as the 8th fight on the card so I'm not sure why you would bring it up anyway. Now that I look at 158 there are a number of guys who aren't really UFC level anyway.
I was using wikipedia for the UFC 158 line-up, that was my mistake. That said, UFC 155 had Todd Duffee getting KO of the night and John Moraga, the guy fighting for the next Flyweight belt getting Sub of the night. It also had a good fight between Halloway and Garcia. Some cards will be better than others obviously.

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Anyways, I've said my reasons and I'm going to leave it at that. I think the UFC will work towards shorter cards once they clean up their roster and the proof will be there when it happens.
Fair enough. Personally I think not knowing who some of the fighters on the undercard are or the well-being of the commentators/event staff working an extra hour as being reasons for dropping fights is ridiculous, but to each their own.

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02-22-2013, 11:55 AM
  #489
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I never said anything about not knowing names of fighters, although maybe someone else did. My problem is that I do know who all the fighters are, and these fighters aren't good.

And yes 155 was a very deep card to the bottom. But if you look at the last bunch you have to dig to find those. But it's not like those guys like Moreaga would be cut, they would just be on the previous or next card. Which in his case since he's fighting for a belt next probably should have been done anyway.

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02-22-2013, 12:03 PM
  #490
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an argument to cut fights is because the announcers have to work longer
If that's all you took out of everything I wrote, that's on you. Having 7 hour cards is a drain on everyone involved. Goldberg has started sucking even more since him and Rogan did all the prelims, which in itself isn't a big deal but it is a good tell for the drain on everyone involved.

I have been to a bunch of live UFC's and around 10 fights for 4 or 5 hours is great. Having 12 or 13 so I can watch Jeff Hougland fight Donny Walker isn't. Judging by the empty seats around me at these events, most fans agree.

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02-22-2013, 12:19 PM
  #491
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People wanting to get rid of the prelims will be the first to complain when they dont have those 'fillers' during PPV fights, and have to wait 20 minutes between fights.

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02-22-2013, 02:30 PM
  #492
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The question I have, is why does it bother you? Because when you make your picks on here you don't know who some of the fighters are? It's really a silly complaint IMO. If you don't care about those fights, don't watch them.

As for your comment about the arenas being empty for the first fights, that's only been the case for the fights I've gone to in Vegas. Both Vancouver cards as well as the recent card in Seattle were at least at half capacity, probably more, when the first fighters entered the octagon. And in the case of the Seattle card the first fight won both sub of the night and fight of the night honors.
I just don't see the point in having these fights in the UFC. This organization is supposed to be for the best of the best and the early prelim fights are usually fights that should be happening on the indy circuit. It's not something that really pisses me off or anything. I just don't get why they're there.

And notice that I did say most for arenas. Obviously there's times when there are actually a lot of people there for the prelims but it seems like at least half the time or more, the arena is empty for the earlier prelims.

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02-22-2013, 04:46 PM
  #493
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I just don't see the point in having these fights in the UFC. This organization is supposed to be for the best of the best and the early prelim fights are usually fights that should be happening on the indy circuit. It's not something that really pisses me off or anything. I just don't get why they're there.

And notice that I did say most for arenas. Obviously there's times when there are actually a lot of people there for the prelims but it seems like at least half the time or more, the arena is empty for the earlier prelims.
Guys get caught up in championship clauses with lower organizations. It's a good reason why we probably won't see Curran or Chandler in the UFC for a very long time.

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02-22-2013, 05:06 PM
  #494
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Guys get caught up in championship clauses with lower organizations. It's a good reason why we probably won't see Curran or Chandler in the UFC for a very long time.
No they don't, other than Bellator. Lots of champions ditch their belts to come to the UFC. This is a reason why many ex-UFC guys haven't and won't sign with Bellator.

I agree totally with cnshockey. Gut the bottom of the roster and let these guys fight on the local feeder circuits. 10 fights on a card the norm, 11 tops.

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02-22-2013, 06:07 PM
  #495
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No they don't, other than Bellator. Lots of champions ditch their belts to come to the UFC. This is a reason why many ex-UFC guys haven't and won't sign with Bellator.

I agree totally with cnshockey. Gut the bottom of the roster and let these guys fight on the local feeder circuits. 10 fights on a card the norm, 11 tops.
Well considering that most of this talent would be in Bellator if it weren't in the UFC, that's what I was keying in on.

I believe there's also one in M1 and ONE FC, which is where some of the talent would be as well.

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02-22-2013, 07:55 PM
  #496
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Well considering that most of this talent would be in Bellator if it weren't in the UFC, that's what I was keying in on.

I believe there's also one in M1 and ONE FC, which is where some of the talent would be as well.
Why would you say they would be in Bellator? Lots of guys aren't going to Bellator because of their contracts. If anything guys would be looking at places like WSOF which is quietly establishing itself as a good feeder system. Bellator isn't going to be the landing spot for everyone.

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02-23-2013, 05:32 PM
  #497
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Speaking of WSOF, sounds like they've signed Fitch.

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02-23-2013, 06:03 PM
  #498
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Speaking of WSOF, sounds like they've signed Fitch.
No surprise, and this is where you are going to see guys who want to get back in the UFC going. They aren't going to lock themselves into Bellator's contracts. WSOF have a great relationship with UFC brass as a feeder organization and is the go-to place for guys to get a fight or two and be back in the UFC.

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02-23-2013, 06:14 PM
  #499
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No surprise, and this is where you are going to see guys who want to get back in the UFC going. They aren't going to lock themselves into Bellator's contracts. WSOF have a great relationship with UFC brass as a feeder organization and is the go-to place for guys to get a fight or two and be back in the UFC.
I'm truly curious about Arlovski/Rumble. I wonder if winner will get back to the UFC and if Rumble wins, will he actually come back as a HW? He'll for sure be the only guy to ever fight at 170 AND 265 in the UFC right?

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02-23-2013, 06:20 PM
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Why would you say they would be in Bellator? Lots of guys aren't going to Bellator because of their contracts. If anything guys would be looking at places like WSOF which is quietly establishing itself as a good feeder system. Bellator isn't going to be the landing spot for everyone.
Because Bellator has shown better history for landing talented guys before the break out. Yes, WSOF has guys like Spong, Rumble, Timmeh and Arlovski, but they don't have the kind of history with young talent that Bellator has.

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