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Old
02-21-2013, 06:48 PM
  #26
STLBLUES44
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
So you want 3 guys who are over the hill and only getting worse?

You need to be able to skate in our system, and none of those are good enough skaters IMO.
not to mention neither of them are quality first pass players. Murray is just garbage now, regehr would just be a bigger redden with less offensive potential.

Kimzey is vastly underrating guys like yandle, gardiner, and greene. Greene is solid in his own end and smart with the puck. We need a guy who's solid in his own zone and can move the puck quickly. that's what a top pairing dman is. all the best d pairings consisted of two guys who could move the puck as well as anyone and took acare of their own zone first. Example: Suter-Weber, Lidstrom-Rafalski, Pronger-Macinnis. Not a Pilon(douglas Murray) and pietrangelo as a top unit. Petro's great, he's my favorite player and is THE best defenseman under 26. But he can't do it all by himself especially in the playoffs.

I don't want us to trade for a guy like murray, regehr etc.. who would all be downgrades on cole just for their physicality, especially considering we have a bunch of physical defenseman in our pipeline. If we trade for a LHD it better be for a legit player who can play top minutes and has proved it in the RECENT past, not like 8 years ago like Robyn Regehr. Maybe they could work on the third pair but not the 1st. I just wish we still had Pronger and he was healthy. can't even imagine how good we'd be with a healthy pronger.

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02-21-2013, 07:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
If you haven't noticed all the pirouettes aren't amounting to W's and won't in the playoffs either. Needs some brawn to go with the figure skaters. Sorry...still ticked about the lack of heart and leadership after Tarasenko got hit.
And we would have gotten a penalty for retaliation which could have led to a loss. The hit was clean too

Our only figure skater is Russell. Just because they aren't super tough, doesn't mean they are figure skaters.

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02-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
not to mention neither of them are quality first pass players. Murray is just garbage now, regehr would just be a bigger redden with less offensive potential.

Kimzey is vastly underrating guys like yandle, gardiner, and greene. Greene is solid in his own end and smart with the puck. We need a guy who's solid in his own zone and can move the puck quickly. that's what a top pairing dman is. all the best d pairings consisted of two guys who could move the puck as well as anyone and took acare of their own zone first. Example: Suter-Weber, Lidstrom-Rafalski, Pronger-Macinnis. Not a Pilon(douglas Murray) and pietrangelo as a top unit. Petro's great, he's my favorite player and is THE best defenseman under 26. But he can't do it all by himself especially in the playoffs.

I don't want us to trade for a guy like murray, regehr etc.. who would all be downgrades on cole just for their physicality, especially considering we have a bunch of physical defenseman in our pipeline. If we trade for a LHD it better be for a legit player who can play top minutes and has proved it in the RECENT past, not like 8 years ago like Robyn Regehr. Maybe they could work on the third pair but not the 1st. I just wish we still had Pronger and he was healthy. can't even imagine how good we'd be with a healthy pronger.
Lidstrom and Rafalski only played together on the PP.
Lidstrom played primarily with Kronwall, Rafalski primarily with Stuart or Ericsson.

Pronger and MacInnis only played together on the PP.
MacInnis played with guys like Jackman, Salvador, Bergevin and Baron.
Pronger played with guys like Persson, Reirden, Finley and whoever our scrub of the day was at the time(Sean Hill, Dave Ellott, etc...).


Let's look at the top pairings from the last 10 Cup Champs.
Doughty-Mitchell
Chara-Seidenberg
Keith-Seabrook
Letang-Orpik
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Pronger-Neidermayer
Kaberle-Ward
Kubina-Sydor
Neidermayer-Stevens
Lidstrom-Chelios

I don't know about you, but I see a pattern with all of those pairings; a PMD and a crease clearer.

You might want to talk up the puck moving ability of guys like Chara, Pronger, and Weber; but their main attribute was their ability to effectively clear the crease, not their offensive prowess. What we need next to Pietrangelo is an effective creae clearer; not another PMD. Learn from history people and quit chasing after the "next big name".

This is about what we need, not how good an individual player might be. Guys like Yandle, OEL, Greene and Gardiner are great players; but they are the exact opposite of what we need. What we need is some legit beef on the blueline who can throw down when games start getting physical. Jackman and Polak have proven they can't fill that role. This team already has more than enough offensive ability on the Blueline. Adding more offense isn't going to help us. We need size and a willingness to use it.

As I said; for what we need, give me the Volchenkov/Regehr/Murray/Grossman type over a Gardiner/OEL/Yandle/Greene type any day. Another stud offensive D man isn't going to help us clear the crease or win a battle in the corners and THAT is what is costing us games.

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02-21-2013, 08:12 PM
  #29
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Volchenkov, Regher, and Murray would be an utter disaster on the top pairing.

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02-21-2013, 10:36 PM
  #30
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Wish Vlasic was available but Sharks fans have said multiple times no way they get rid of Vlasic due to how much he means to the team.

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02-21-2013, 11:09 PM
  #31
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Lots of insights here.

If I'm reading this correctly, Pieterangelo's partner has to be more of a complimentary peice then a top two defenseman due to the assets that would be required and the top dollars that he would command.

As for the second half of my original post that seemed to be read over, could this be the window for the Blues for a cup run. If so, would it be time to mortgage the futur for the missing peices, and which prospects would be used as trade bait?

Thanks

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:18 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Keith Yandle
Undersized PMD, no physical game, average defensively
No thanks

Andy Greene
Undersized PMD, no physical game, average defensively
No thanks.

Jake Gardiner
Undersized PMD, no physical game, below average defensively
No thanks.

Andrew McDonald
Undersied PMD, no physical game, average defensively

Mark Streit
Undersized PMD, no physical game, average defensively, pending UFA
No thanks

Andrej Sekera
Undersized PMD, no physical game, good defensively
Wouldn't pay what Buffalo would want.

ME Vlasic
Undersized stay at home type, no physical game, very good defensively
Wouldn't pay what SJ would want

Marc Staal/Ryan McDonagh
Good sized 2-way D men, decent physical game, very good defensively
I'd love either, but the Rag's will want a fortune for them.

I'd prefer a guy like Grossman, Regehr, Murray or Volchenkov over most of this group.
Whoa

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02-22-2013, 12:21 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Lidstrom and Rafalski only played together on the PP.
Lidstrom played primarily with Kronwall, Rafalski primarily with Stuart or Ericsson.

Pronger and MacInnis only played together on the PP.
MacInnis played with guys like Jackman, Salvador, Bergevin and Baron.
Pronger played with guys like Persson, Reirden, Finley and whoever our scrub of the day was at the time(Sean Hill, Dave Ellott, etc...).


Let's look at the top pairings from the last 10 Cup Champs.
Doughty-Mitchell
Chara-Seidenberg
Keith-Seabrook
Letang-Orpik
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Pronger-Neidermayer
Kaberle-Ward
Kubina-Sydor
Neidermayer-Stevens
Lidstrom-Chelios

I don't know about you, but I see a pattern with all of those pairings; a PMD and a crease clearer.

You might want to talk up the puck moving ability of guys like Chara, Pronger, and Weber; but their main attribute was their ability to effectively clear the crease, not their offensive prowess. What we need next to Pietrangelo is an effective creae clearer; not another PMD. Learn from history people and quit chasing after the "next big name".

This is about what we need, not how good an individual player might be. Guys like Yandle, OEL, Greene and Gardiner are great players; but they are the exact opposite of what we need. What we need is some legit beef on the blueline who can throw down when games start getting physical. Jackman and Polak have proven they can't fill that role. This team already has more than enough offensive ability on the Blueline. Adding more offense isn't going to help us. We need size and a willingness to use it.

As I said; for what we need, give me the Volchenkov/Regehr/Murray/Grossman type over a Gardiner/OEL/Yandle/Greene type any day. Another stud offensive D man isn't going to help us clear the crease or win a battle in the corners and THAT is what is costing us games.
Need I point out that the two bolded groups aren't related to each other (Cup champs and guys you'd want to get)? I'm talking quality not type.

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02-22-2013, 12:24 AM
  #34
bluemandan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Lidstrom and Rafalski only played together on the PP.
Lidstrom played primarily with Kronwall, Rafalski primarily with Stuart or Ericsson.

Pronger and MacInnis only played together on the PP.
MacInnis played with guys like Jackman, Salvador, Bergevin and Baron.
Pronger played with guys like Persson, Reirden, Finley and whoever our scrub of the day was at the time(Sean Hill, Dave Ellott, etc...).


Let's look at the top pairings from the last 10 Cup Champs.
Doughty-Mitchell
Chara-Seidenberg
Keith-Seabrook
Letang-Orpik
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Pronger-Neidermayer
Kaberle-Ward
Kubina-Sydor
Neidermayer-Stevens
Lidstrom-Chelios

I don't know about you, but I see a pattern with all of those pairings; a PMD and a crease clearer.

You might want to talk up the puck moving ability of guys like Chara, Pronger, and Weber; but their main attribute was their ability to effectively clear the crease, not their offensive prowess. What we need next to Pietrangelo is an effective creae clearer; not another PMD. Learn from history people and quit chasing after the "next big name".

This is about what we need, not how good an individual player might be. Guys like Yandle, OEL, Greene and Gardiner are great players; but they are the exact opposite of what we need. What we need is some legit beef on the blueline who can throw down when games start getting physical. Jackman and Polak have proven they can't fill that role. This team already has more than enough offensive ability on the Blueline. Adding more offense isn't going to help us. We need size and a willingness to use it.

As I said; for what we need, give me the Volchenkov/Regehr/Murray/Grossman type over a Gardiner/OEL/Yandle/Greene type any day. Another stud offensive D man isn't going to help us clear the crease or win a battle in the corners and THAT is what is costing us games.
I read that whole thing, and the only thing I could think was "beef on the bun." Damn Hitchcock and Panger.

Seriosuly though, I agree with you. We need someone to compliment Pietrangelo, not someone who can fill his shoes if he goes down. We have that guy in Shattenkirk. I understand he didn't last playoffs, but he is still very young and developing. Shattenkirk can be the Rafalski to Pietrangelo's Lidstrom. What the Blues need is a bigger, faster version of Barret Jackman. Someone who is going to make opposing forwards look over their shoulder as they go into a corner, make them willing to stand a foot or two off the crease instead of right on top of it, etc.

EDIT: I want to add that while stylistically the guys you mentioned are the type I'd target, I'm not sure that those specific players are a big enough upgrade over Jackman to be worth pursuing outside of free-agency. It seems like there simply isn't the style of player that the Blues need of the quality that the Blues need available.


Last edited by bluemandan: 02-22-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old
02-22-2013, 04:09 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Need I point out that the two bolded groups aren't related to each other (Cup champs and guys you'd want to get)? I'm talking quality not type.
Before landing next to Chara; Seidenberg was considered a #4/5 PMD D man in the same mold as Colaiacovo. Stick him next to Chara and all of a sudden he's some great steady D man who plays a "simple game" and keeps the puck out of danger area's.

Much as I love Brooks Orpik, he has never been considered anything more than a good #3. Everybody knows he has nothing to offer on offense.
Much as I love Willie Mitchell, he has never been considered more than a good #3. He has durability issue's when you ask him to play more than 20-22 minutes a night(sounds a lot like Jackman if you ask me).


And Aaron Ward? Are you seriously trying to give Aaron Ward some kind of hype here?
The guy was a fringe #5 guy who made a road pylon look mobile and couldn't keep himself off the IR. He played next to Frank Kaberle because he was the only D man on their team who Kaberle felt comfortable "roaming" next to.


Sorry; Seidenberg, Orpik, Mitchell and Ward are every bit the same type and caliber of D men that Volchenkov/Grossman/Murray/Regehr are. Put any of them next to Pietrangelo, let them simplify their game and you'll be surprised at just how much they "improve".

Also, I'd argue that Grossman might be a perfect fit both stylistically and in terms of Quality. The guy has turned himself into an extremely solid defensive D man, is every bit as mobile as Cole is and has an extremely heavy shot when he manages to get it through. I don't hesitate for a second in saying he's on the same level as Polak, and Polak would be an ideal partner for Pie if he could play the left side. Right now, Grossman is my #1 target if I'm Army. He's exactly the caliber and style of D man that we need next to Pietrangelo and he has a team friendly contract for the next 3 years.

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02-22-2013, 06:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Before landing next to Chara; Seidenberg was considered a #4/5 PMD D man in the same mold as Colaiacovo. Stick him next to Chara and all of a sudden he's some great steady D man who plays a "simple game" and keeps the puck out of danger area's.

Much as I love Brooks Orpik, he has never been considered anything more than a good #3. Everybody knows he has nothing to offer on offense.
Much as I love Willie Mitchell, he has never been considered more than a good #3. He has durability issue's when you ask him to play more than 20-22 minutes a night(sounds a lot like Jackman if you ask me).


And Aaron Ward? Are you seriously trying to give Aaron Ward some kind of hype here?
The guy was a fringe #5 guy who made a road pylon look mobile and couldn't keep himself off the IR. He played next to Frank Kaberle because he was the only D man on their team who Kaberle felt comfortable "roaming" next to.


Sorry; Seidenberg, Orpik, Mitchell and Ward are every bit the same type and caliber of D men that Volchenkov/Grossman/Murray/Regehr are. Put any of them next to Pietrangelo, let them simplify their game and you'll be surprised at just how much they "improve".

Also, I'd argue that Grossman might be a perfect fit both stylistically and in terms of Quality. The guy has turned himself into an extremely solid defensive D man, is every bit as mobile as Cole is and has an extremely heavy shot when he manages to get it through. I don't hesitate for a second in saying he's on the same level as Polak, and Polak would be an ideal partner for Pie if he could play the left side. Right now, Grossman is my #1 target if I'm Army. He's exactly the caliber and style of D man that we need next to Pietrangelo and he has a team friendly contract for the next 3 years.
100% agree. The strongest D the Blues ever had was when we had Scott Stevens...not just because of Scott Stevens, but because you had Snepsts, Dirk, Featherstone, as well. No one WANTED to get in front of the net or even close to it. Then you add in a Jeff Brown and Paul Cavallini that could move the puck. They complemented each other. Russell and Shattenkirk? Park your camper in front of the net. Grossman is an ideal fit for the Blues.

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02-22-2013, 06:59 AM
  #37
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It was a scoreless game. You want the Blues players to do what?

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02-22-2013, 07:28 AM
  #38
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It was a scoreless game. You want the Blues players to do what?
It was a lower tier team...beat them. They are missing their best player from a year ago.

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02-22-2013, 07:40 AM
  #39
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I am really concerned about the C spot for the Blues. Faceoffs continue to be a big issue. We dominate possession, force a FO in the other teams zone, just to lose the FO and let the other team off the hook. Late in the game or in OT where every FO is important, I have no confidence that our guys are gonna make life easier on themselves and win the FO.

I also think the lines aren't quite right. Backes, to me, even when he scores more, isn't a first line center...winger, maybe, if he's the complementary physical guy. We have too many guys who are hybrid C/Winger and seem more suited to wing: Steen, Backes, MacDonald. (Sobotka actually looks pretty good in either role, but less expectation is placed on him as well).

Not sure what the answer is or who would be available, but seems like we have a glut of wingers and need help on the D and C.

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02-22-2013, 07:54 AM
  #40
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I am really concerned about the C spot for the Blues. Faceoffs continue to be a big issue. We dominate possession, force a FO in the other teams zone, just to lose the FO and let the other team off the hook. Late in the game or in OT where every FO is important, I have no confidence that our guys are gonna make life easier on themselves and win the FO.

I also think the lines aren't quite right. Backes, to me, even when he scores more, isn't a first line center...winger, maybe, if he's the complementary physical guy. We have too many guys who are hybrid C/Winger and seem more suited to wing: Steen, Backes, MacDonald. (Sobotka actually looks pretty good in either role, but less expectation is placed on him as well).

Not sure what the answer is or who would be available, but seems like we have a glut of wingers and need help on the D and C.
The idea of what a #1C, #2C & #3C are really need to change. If the Backes line can shut down the opposition first line and our second and third lines are better than the opposition... we are in a good position. Faceoffs are certainly an issue, but I don't really care that we aren't built with the traditional idea of what a certain player is.

We do need another C, but I'd be a little surprised to see us make a move big enough to address that need before the deadline.

It is frustrating that the NHL rules don't allow us to sign Lehterä for the remainder of the season, despite the fact it looks like his KHL season will be over in a week or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibs View Post
Lots of insights here.

If I'm reading this correctly, Pieterangelo's partner has to be more of a complimentary peice then a top two defenseman due to the assets that would be required and the top dollars that he would command.

As for the second half of my original post that seemed to be read over, could this be the window for the Blues for a cup run. If so, would it be time to mortgage the futur for the missing peices, and which prospects would be used as trade bait?

Thanks
We are certainly not going to go down that route. Keeping our picks and developing our prospects is the best way to keep costs down while putting out a competitive team. Everyone is available in the right deal, but I expect moving our high picks/prospects will be a rarity.

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02-22-2013, 08:33 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Lidstrom and Rafalski only played together on the PP.
Lidstrom played primarily with Kronwall, Rafalski primarily with Stuart or Ericsson.

Pronger and MacInnis only played together on the PP.
MacInnis played with guys like Jackman, Salvador, Bergevin and Baron.
Pronger played with guys like Persson, Reirden, Finley and whoever our scrub of the day was at the time(Sean Hill, Dave Ellott, etc...).


Let's look at the top pairings from the last 10 Cup Champs.
Doughty-Mitchell
Chara-Seidenberg
Keith-Seabrook
Letang-Orpik
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Pronger-Neidermayer
Kaberle-Ward
Kubina-Sydor
Neidermayer-Stevens
Lidstrom-Chelios

I don't know about you, but I see a pattern with all of those pairings; a PMD and a crease clearer.

You might want to talk up the puck moving ability of guys like Chara, Pronger, and Weber; but their main attribute was their ability to effectively clear the crease, not their offensive prowess. What we need next to Pietrangelo is an effective creae clearer; not another PMD. Learn from history people and quit chasing after the "next big name".

This is about what we need, not how good an individual player might be. Guys like Yandle, OEL, Greene and Gardiner are great players; but they are the exact opposite of what we need. What we need is some legit beef on the blueline who can throw down when games start getting physical. Jackman and Polak have proven they can't fill that role. This team already has more than enough offensive ability on the Blueline. Adding more offense isn't going to help us. We need size and a willingness to use it.

As I said; for what we need, give me the Volchenkov/Regehr/Murray/Grossman type over a Gardiner/OEL/Yandle/Greene type any day. Another stud offensive D man isn't going to help us clear the crease or win a battle in the corners and THAT is what is costing us games.

Look at the King's last season. Scuderi, Greene, and Mitchell were part of every pairing. Our forwards could not get any traffic in front of Quick. I think Grossman would be a great fit but the Flyers need defense and I cannot see him being moved. What about O'Byrne or O'Brien with Colorado? I do not want to make a deal that costs us Cole or Schwartz. A deal for a Giordano-type will cost us that. I think the pairing of Russell and Shattenkirk needs to go. Cole has had some struggles but we are not losing because of him.

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02-22-2013, 09:25 AM
  #42
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Cole is a superior player to any of Pietrangelo's partners last year, and he is only going to get more consistent. He's got physical tools and can make a surprisingly good breakout pass(to me, at least). He will suffice on the first pairing if Pietrangelo can pick his play up to where it was in the last 50 games of last regular season. He is also playing far better than Russell and Redden, and putting either of them on first pairing would be a giant mistake. Jackman and Shattenkirk's play is absolutely amazing right now, if they can keep that up all season, and god forbid the playoffs as well, that will be the ideal 2nd pairing for us.

If we can somehow make a trade for a crease-clearing DMan to edge out Cole on the top pairing without actually losing Cole, that would definitely be our best bet. I get the feeling that a Cole/Polak 3rd pairing would be quite successful, considering both of their natural physical ability, and that Cole seems to be able to move the puck fairly well.

As for the center issue, I'm of the opinion that Sobotka needs to be playing center instead of Steen. He can obviously be relied upon in a defensive situation and isn't horrible at faceoffs, and that would allow Steen to move back to wing, where he clearly thrives in comparison to his play at C. Sobotka has also proved in the last few games with Berglund that his ability to battle and ability to quickly turn and create opportunities is far better than I expected, so he will be fine in a top-9 role. Schwartz looks like he deserves a top-9 spot as well with how hard he has been playing, and he seems fine on the 4th line as well which honestly shocks me, but I will not complain. Porter can be called up if necessary, because his play last season was is deserving of a 4th line role, without question.


Last edited by ManyIdeas: 02-22-2013 at 09:31 AM. Reason: derp
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Old
02-22-2013, 10:15 AM
  #43
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it seems to me that the pens have what you are looking for with d-men all over the place....and the pens need what you have in spades good young wingers. the only d-man thats off limits would be letang...and you could even get him but it would take a massive over payment. imo

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02-22-2013, 06:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
The idea of what a #1C, #2C & #3C are really need to change. If the Backes line can shut down the opposition first line and our second and third lines are better than the opposition... we are in a good position.
I get what you're saying, but what you're describing is having your shut down line (3rd line) start games against a teams first line, and that's basically how I see Backes, as a high-end grinder. Berglund really is a #2 center. Not sure Steen is even a center.

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02-22-2013, 11:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Before landing next to Chara; Seidenberg was considered a #4/5 PMD D man in the same mold as Colaiacovo. Stick him next to Chara and all of a sudden he's some great steady D man who plays a "simple game" and keeps the puck out of danger area's.

Much as I love Brooks Orpik, he has never been considered anything more than a good #3. Everybody knows he has nothing to offer on offense.
Much as I love Willie Mitchell, he has never been considered more than a good #3. He has durability issue's when you ask him to play more than 20-22 minutes a night(sounds a lot like Jackman if you ask me).


And Aaron Ward? Are you seriously trying to give Aaron Ward some kind of hype here?
The guy was a fringe #5 guy who made a road pylon look mobile and couldn't keep himself off the IR. He played next to Frank Kaberle because he was the only D man on their team who Kaberle felt comfortable "roaming" next to.


Sorry; Seidenberg, Orpik, Mitchell and Ward are every bit the same type and caliber of D men that Volchenkov/Grossman/Murray/Regehr are. Put any of them next to Pietrangelo, let them simplify their game and you'll be surprised at just how much they "improve".

Also, I'd argue that Grossman might be a perfect fit both stylistically and in terms of Quality. The guy has turned himself into an extremely solid defensive D man, is every bit as mobile as Cole is and has an extremely heavy shot when he manages to get it through. I don't hesitate for a second in saying he's on the same level as Polak, and Polak would be an ideal partner for Pie if he could play the left side. Right now, Grossman is my #1 target if I'm Army. He's exactly the caliber and style of D man that we need next to Pietrangelo and he has a team friendly contract for the next 3 years.
First of all, Murray is done. He is not the Murray of Sweden's Olympic team in 2010. He's just a player worse than Russell at this point. He's basically a disaster. So slow.

Volchenkov is a guy on a 6yr x 4.25M contract who plays 17-18 minutes a night behind Salvador, Greene, Zidlicky, Fayne and Larsson. No thanks.

Philly, whose D is a mess and are craving solid D men, play Grossman 18 minutes a night, behind Coburn, Timonen, Schenn and Gustafsson/Meszaros. He makes 3.5M this and the next three seasons.

Regehr makes over 4M and has made himself exependable in Buffalo with his play. He gets fewer minutes than Ehrhoff, Leopold, Myers, Sekera, M.Weber and Alexander Sulzer.

You listed 10 guys, then picked the four worst and said these guys are comparable to that because Aaron Ward once was a #5 dman. Right now all four are getting #5-#6 dman minutes, one is absolutely atrocious and the other three are on the fringe. By your reasoning you could pick any large #5 dman and say if Aaron Ward could be on the top pairing, then so could Player X and thus we need him.

Not to mention the listing of Chelios, Stevens, prime Sydor, Niedermayer, Kronwall and Seabrook (most of the time this is the caliber top pair it takes to win).

Also Willie Mitchell is one of the best defensive dmen in the game, and comparing him to Volchenkov, Murray, Regehr and Grossman is a straight up insult to Mitchell.

Moreover you said, Orpik was a #3, not some bottom pairing guy like this highly compensated lot.

Sorry, I don't buy the idea that any bottom pairing big man (espcially the grossly overpaid ones you listed) is the remedy because Aaron Ward and Seidenberg were #5s once.

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02-23-2013, 08:19 AM
  #46
PerryTurnbullfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC_Fan View Post
Look at the King's last season. Scuderi, Greene, and Mitchell were part of every pairing. Our forwards could not get any traffic in front of Quick. I think Grossman would be a great fit but the Flyers need defense and I cannot see him being moved. What about O'Byrne or O'Brien with Colorado? I do not want to make a deal that costs us Cole or Schwartz. A deal for a Giordano-type will cost us that. I think the pairing of Russell and Shattenkirk needs to go. Cole has had some struggles but we are not losing because of him.
ditto....

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02-26-2013, 08:14 AM
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Given the Blues' financial limitations, it is important for us to have draft choices come through. Cole is one of those draft choices we need to come through.

Cole is not yet a quality defenseman, but he is working on it. He is playing a pretty conservative game these days, learning what will be called a penalty and what won't, and not stepping up to make hits but hanging back some. Playing with Petrangelo will obviously help him.

I think he is improving. Let's hope that by the end of this shortened season, he will be ready to be a big contributor.

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02-26-2013, 08:42 AM
  #48
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What about in a minor deal swap D'Agostini to Florida for Zach Hamill or maybe another possible late blooming center prospect? or a Louis LeBlanc from the Canadiens?

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02-26-2013, 12:00 PM
  #49
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As a Flyers fan, if you're looking for someone to play first pairing minutes, then Grossmann isn't your guy. He's been great as 4/5 guy for us, but no where near someone who can play on a first pairing.

Would Braydon Coburn interest you guys? While not as physical or as good as a shot blocker as Grossmann, his puck skills are much better (although they are average at best) and he is easily the most mobile Flyers defenseman. I'm not sure exactly what the Blues' financial situation is, but Coburn has 3 more years left on his contract after this year ($4.5 million cap hit) with an actual salary of $5.5 million, $4.5 million, and $4 million.

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02-26-2013, 01:45 PM
  #50
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I'd try to obtain Defenseman Hainsey from the Jets for a 2nd round pick myself.

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