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Old
02-22-2013, 10:06 AM
  #26
Synergy27
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I'd fire Torts for very selfish reasons. Regardless of results, which obviously haven't been very good this year, the collapsing defensive system is heart attack inducing and just plain old frustrating and not fun to watch. It has never made sense to me in light of the fact that there is an all-world player standing between the pipes. His presence should allow for more aggression and risk taking, and the Rangers do just the opposite at the risk of both the player's and the fan's health.

The PP is abysmal, and while I want to pin it on the coaching, we can't ignore the personnel contribution completely. The Rangers lack a pure shooter, have for awhile now, and that's what the PP was all about. They have lacked a true PMD since Leetch left, but that was OK during the Jagr years because he was deadly with the one-timer from just about anywhere. The mix right now is just not right.

The other thing we need to realize, and I think a lot of us already do, is that last season was a massive missed opportunity. The team was overachieving collectively, perhaps motivated by the HBO cameras, and injuries and underachieving around the rest of the league helped a lot too. The team we see today is about what we expected to see out of last year's team, so their struggles should not be such a surprise. My main goal for the remainder of this season and next would be to establish chemistry by keeping lines relatively consistent and minimizing turnover in the off-season. That's the major common theme for teams that are always good.

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02-22-2013, 10:06 AM
  #27
Harold86
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Longevity doesn't really impress me.
i guess they wanted to waste their time for 15 years

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02-22-2013, 10:08 AM
  #28
Doctor King Schultz
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Bring Nash back. Bring back the Kreider - Miller - Callahan line. Move Boyle to the 4th line. Fix the PP. Stump dumping and chasing every time.

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02-22-2013, 10:10 AM
  #29
tjs252
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There's too much talent to struggle like we do to score.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the players here, I don't think there needs to be a huge roster shakeup, though whenever an upgrade is available that won't cause cap concerns, I think it's a move to make.

The easiest answer is patience. There are a lot of new players here and they're playing without the benefit of a camp. They're also playing under a coach who doesn't allow for line consistency.

If it were up to me, I'd make the top-6, in whatever iteration of Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Stepan, Hagelin, and Callahan get and stick with linemates and ease the defensive expectations of that group. Not to say they should go out and cherrypick, but just open up the offense. As Montreal showed (and the Devils of late) with such an emphasis on having our forwards backcheck to an extreme degree, we're overly susceptible to teams that want to play the trap. We'll never get any offensive flow that way. Open it up, see what happens. At least Lundqvist gives you a better safety net.

And the powerplay. That needs to be fixed. More shooting, less trying to make the perfect pass.

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02-22-2013, 10:12 AM
  #30
Harold86
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
There's too much talent to struggle like we do to score.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the players here, I don't think there needs to be a huge roster shakeup, though whenever an upgrade is available that won't cause cap concerns, I think it's a move to make.

They're also playing under a coach who doesn't allow for line consistency.

And the powerplay. That needs to be fixed. More shooting, less trying to make the perfect pass.
thank you

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02-22-2013, 10:12 AM
  #31
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There is nothing major wrong.

They have had more scoring chanes than the opposition in each of the three games that they have lost recently.
That is really all you can do is out chance the opposition.
So much luck involved and the games are so low scoring that the margin between what the Rangers did last year and this year is not much.

Look at the OT/SO last night. gaborik hits a post, Miller fans on empty net, Hank has one go in off his glove, then Kreider hits a cross bar.

If any one of those random, arbitrary (lucky) things goes our way, we in.

Just get in the playoffs. If they do that, this team as currently constitued will be a VERY tough out in the playoffs.

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02-22-2013, 10:14 AM
  #32
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First and foremost I think that we have been fed a lie in the "Safe is Death" statement from Torts when initially taking over. In my opinion, there's not a safer system out there than dump and chase and grind along the wall, down below the goal and hope that a puck springs loose in front for a stuff in.

While the Rangers have improved defensively, they have not improved offensively even if their place in the league has gone from 20th in goals in 09-10 (222 goals) to 13th in 11-12 (226 goals) That just tells me that overall scoring is down.

I do not believe we have a team offensively talented enough to play a straight run and gun system, but I believe that we have talented enough players to open it up a bit more than we do now.

What I would do if I were in charge of the Rangers is to Send Kreider back to the minors. He is not engaged often enough and seems a bit lost right now. I believe he's focused so much on not screwing up defensively that his offence is suffering. I believe that he needs to be more imposing with his size and he has to be a bit more selfish (something I think is missing team wide really).

I like what JT Miller has done so far at the NHL level. There's things that he does during that game that displays his Hockey IQ like when he is after a loose puck. He's not a stick checker. I've seen him on a regular basis position himself between the puck and the opposition where as alot of other players (Stepan/Gaborik/Richards/Boyle/Kreider) reach with a stick. These are the things that I like to see from players. Use your body to seperate the puck from the opposition. Not your stick.

I think that the team needs players that are more interested in imposing their physical will on opposing players than what we have right now and they are the guys I would be targeting.

With the short season, I would not make any wholesale changes this year and while I am not a complete fan of trading MDZ, I think that I would pull the trigger on a straight swap for RO'R. This would be a precursor to moving Richards later.

I would then allow the season to play out and hope for the best THIS season.

After the season was over, I would remove Torts and Sully from their positions on the coaching staff. I would hire Joey Mullen to be the teams HC. Nostalgia in getting a local kid from the neighborhood to be the teams HC and for the fact that he has been running the Flyers PP since 07 and they have consistently been top 10. His short HC career was a 52 game minor league stint in the Pens Org. where his team went 28-16-3-5 for a .615 winning percentage. I think we need to stop with the re-treads and think outside of the box with the next choice of HC. Joey knows offence and I think he would do a good job.

At the draft, I move Gaborik for a 1st and a prospect or a solid 4-6 defenceman. In this instance, I target Nashville. Nashville's 1st and a player like Kevin Klein.

If Richards play didn't pick up, he would be a compliance buyout THIS summer. No need to wait till the summer of 2014.

Would look to try to sign both Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry to contracts. 7X7 for Getzlaf and 7X6 for Perry.

If we got Getzlaf and not Perry, I then look to trade Stepan. If we got Perry and not Getzlaf, Stepan remains on the team

Assuming we get both guys. Stepan would be traded. Perferrably out west. With Koivu and Granlund, I don't think Minnesota would have a need for him so sending him to his home state may not be an option. Edmonton could be an option. Oilers 1st in 2014 and MPS (assuming he's still struggling)

I would have the lines look as follows:

Hagelin - Getzlaf - Nash
Kreider - O'Reilly - Perry
Fasth - Miller - Callahan
the 4th line would be made up from the following

MPS, Yogan, Fogarty, Lindberg, St, Croix

Defence

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Klein
Stralman, McIlrath, Sauer (hopefully)

I know I asked to be a little realistic, and I kind of got away from that here myself.

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Old
02-22-2013, 10:21 AM
  #33
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This. Get Nash back and give Kreider top 6 minutes and LEAVE HIM THERE for the whole ****ing game. Kreider drew 2 penalties in the first and should have drawn another one when he was tripped out near Anderson and 10 minutes later he's on a line with Boyle and Halpern. No minutes in OT. I generally like the majority of Torts' decisions but he needs to let this kid play.
yes. for the love of god, let the kid play and make some mistakes and learn from them. he's not gonna play with any calmness or swagger that we know he has if he thinks one minor slip-up will cut his minutes in half or even result in NO minutes.

the juggling of the lines needs to be done REASONABLY. NEVER PUT A GUY LIKE BOYLE ON THE SAME LINE AS A GUY LIKE GABORIK. serious waste of gaborik's talent. if you wanna put the grinders out, go ahead- but don't do it at the expense of an elite player.

also, and i'll admit he has had a good couple games since being scratched, i strongly feel we should deal boyle (and even richards if he can't step it up) and go for 1/2 big bodies who can do things with the puck. someone mentioned penner. perfect! i have a terrible feeling that we got gomez'd with the richards deal. maybe we need to get into the business of getting out of the business of signing older guys to such long term contracts. some people will say "but then nobody who's proven will sign with us!" so what. if a guy & his agent will only agree to 5+ years, we should be suspicious that he is on the decline and/or just doesn't have it anymore. you don't wanna play in new york? **** off. this is a team that can win a cup with or without you. i feel like we cave too often with these signings.

PP obviously needs to be fixed. good PP goal last night. work with that. the rangers don't MOVE as much as other teams while in the offensive zone when they have the puck. passing looks good, even great, at times but players like gaborik need to actually skate a little WITH the puck and then pass/shoot/make a move then shoot in order to truly wear the other team down while they're pinned in their zone. this PP i see from teams like the sharks, edmonton, vancouver, ottowa and it works.

we need to shake things up. wtf is with blowing all these leads? it's insane.

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Old
02-22-2013, 10:21 AM
  #34
Vinny
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Step away from dump the puck, grinding and start create plays, pass and play open hockey.

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02-22-2013, 10:27 AM
  #35
5 4 Fighting
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I would dump Torts and Sully, and then see where it goes from there. Take a look at Ruff's system, interview head coaches and the style they see for our club. I'm sure one of those coaches can get this team to be a 4-5 seed at the least. Right now we are 8-9. Inexcusable.

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02-22-2013, 10:29 AM
  #36
Mio41
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Originally Posted by Garian Maborik View Post
Bring Nash back. Bring back the Kreider - Miller - Callahan line. Move Boyle to the 4th line. Fix the PP. Stump dumping and chasing every time.
I agree, and I never thought we would miss last years line of Feds- Boyle- Prust, but though they couldn't score they played alot of minutes and were reliable defnsively. Hank last year covered up for the big mistakes, this year it's not happening...take Richards off the PP point, put Nash on the point and set him up in the high slot and keep firing...

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02-22-2013, 10:30 AM
  #37
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Avery!!!!

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Old
02-22-2013, 10:32 AM
  #38
Mio41
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Avery!!!!
Sad but true, at least he tried...a Chris Neil like energy player, besides Cally

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02-22-2013, 10:35 AM
  #39
RangerBoy
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For the Rangers not to make the playoffs in this conference,Lundqvist will need to suffer a major injury.

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02-22-2013, 10:36 AM
  #40
RangerBoy
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Buffalo missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years with Ruff as head coach.

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02-22-2013, 10:40 AM
  #41
Glen Teflon Sather
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I don't think you can do much to fix the team in a shortened season. I think if there is any fixing, it should be done at the draft. I'd look to move Gaborik, Minny seems like a logical choice, lots of prospects. Vancouver tried to sign him, maybe swing a deal for Kassian? Might be tough considering Gabby only has 1 year left on his contract. I'd even consider San Jose. Maybe they'd move Pavelski and a d-man (Braun/Demers) for Gaborik? Pavelski is a clutch 2 way player, Torts is familiar with his style from the Olympics. If and only if the chance presents itself, and Getzlaf is out there for the taking, I think you have to buy Richards out and go for Getzlaf. I know, typical Rangers fan mentality here.

As far as fixing to the current team goes, Torts needs to lighten up on the young guys(Kreider/Miller), I think they're so afraid to make a mistake they're not playing up to their potential. The power play has to be addressed, come playoff time a successful power play might be the thing that puts you over the edge to win the Cup.

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02-22-2013, 10:40 AM
  #42
OverTheCap
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Not sure why some believe Ruff would be a better coach than Torts. He juggles lines more than Torts and employs the trap, seems antithetical to what the people who want a coaching change would like to see out of this team.

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02-22-2013, 10:42 AM
  #43
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
For the Rangers not to make the playoffs in this conference,Lundqvist will need to suffer a major injury.
Tru dat.

If the Rangers don't make the playoffs I will post a video of me singing "Call Me, Maybe" in the nude.

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02-22-2013, 10:52 AM
  #44
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Patience. The ship is gonna be righted soon, I feel it. This team needs to play with more heart and desparation and after these losses to Ottawa and Montreal, I think they are gonna do just that.

Oh yeah, and fix the damn Powerplay.

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02-22-2013, 10:52 AM
  #45
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Tru dat.

If the Rangers don't make the playoffs I will post a video of me singing "Call Me, Maybe" in the nude.
Lets hope they make it then....

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02-22-2013, 10:53 AM
  #46
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Shooting the puck from the point and getting traffic in front. The D have to get shots through. I feel they are getting better with the traffic.

On the PP, get off one timers. Look at last night, even missing the net but shooting quickly will give good results. Make them have to kill the penalty. Right now, they shoot themselves in the foot by over passing. The more you shoot, the more the passing lanes will open up.

At ES, the style they have is great for the lower lines to keep that going, but I'd like to see more on the rush when they actually get an odd man chance. Too many times they are all in a line. That doesn't work. Middle lane drives and have 3 options. They limit themselves too often not playing that way on the rush.

For defense, blocked shots work well. I'd like to see more aggressiveness from the wingers being up higher in the zone, but defense is not the issue. Neither is Hank.

More forechecking and aggressive forechecking. Take the middle of the ice away. To me they often take the boards away, which is exactly the opposite that should be done. Give a team the boards. They will not hurt you there. Take away the center of the ice and it will make it tougher for them and limit chances.

Have Kreider play a bigger role in the offense and go back to the long stretch plays off the glass for Hagelin, Gaborik and Kreider that worked last season. They have speed on this team, but they do not use it.

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02-22-2013, 10:53 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Harold86 View Post
...thoughts?
This is simple and i know everyone is going to hate the answer.

Quote:
Torts and sullivan... they have to go ("great" coaches get fired all the time) IE: Ruff
I'm flexible about Sullivan but leaning him out.
The floor is open as to Ruff
There could be a worse stopgap for a coach.

Quote:
the tortellini system doesn't work anymore. Offense from behind the net and wrap arounds are garbage. Especially with the quality of players we have. 2 "40 goal" scorers are combined for 10 goals in 30 man games and that is awful.
100% agree, except that the system NEVER worked. Any success we had was a temporary illusion in spite of it. If it were truly successful, we would be able to dominate at least to some level, and that would have enabled us to prevail last year. Instead, as you all know, we crapped out from exhaustion, and I don't want to hear the BS about injuries because the system was responsible for the overall and extensive exhaustion, and even when we did win, we had to go full pretty much every series to do it, usually, just barely.

Quote:
Our star players simply aren't providing the offense we need to win a game. We have to rely on 2nd line players to score goals because Richards and Gaborik can't produce. The goals we scored yesterday were almost all luck.. a bounce off the boards for a scrappy goal and a shot that wasn't redirected should have been stopped and we should have been shutout. This team should have one of the most potent offenses in the league with the guys we have ON PAPER. Yet nobody can score a goal because of this **** system that we use.
Again almost 100% correct, except I think Gabby has tried and generally done a good job despite the handicaps of the system, grading him with that curve.


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It's time to let our players like the creative ones that we have be creative (someone said that above and i completely agree).
1111% bingo!

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It pains me to see that Tavares has 1 less goal then RICHARDS GABORIK AND NASH combined. our "top scorers." I'm not trying to flame Nash because him and Hagelin have been the only ones that look like they know what they're doing.
Good point.

Quote:
Overall our big guns are not performing because of the garbage system we use which stems down to Tortellini and Sullivan. theres another hot topic Watch an islanders game and take a page out of their book. Their PP is effective and we definitely possess skilled guys that can do what the islanders do. Is it really that hard to adopt what they do? I am not a coach so i wouldn't know but i've played my whole life and have some idea.
These facts speak for themselves....

Additionally,

we need more and better proverbial horses, so to speak, the objective is to not just be in every game, but rise above competition and DOMINATE. Look at the great franchises in sports --- Yankees, Canadiens.

Don't be afraid to go 2 steps backwards today if it seriously increases our chances of going 5/5+ steps ahead in the near future.

There are no sacred cows.
Trade or don't trade anyone, including our most marketable chip Stepan, based upon whether or not the return justifies it. That is a legitimate discussion based on what's coming back, and that is so for every player.
In the case of guys like Kreider, be careful, because they are not untouchable but their ceiling is so high that we want to be careful not to send it packing at a discount.

Edit add:
one other thing. I would be more inclined to go with best talent available, particularly since salary cap restricts personnel choices. That said, to the extent possible, we should try to be balanced, and not just heavy in one part of the team. An isolated partial exception to this general rule is as to snipers. They are at a premium, so you take 'em where you get 'em.


Last edited by bernmeister: 02-22-2013 at 10:56 AM. Reason: further input
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Old
02-22-2013, 10:55 AM
  #48
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The Rangers should be embarrassed to show their faces in Manhattan if they can't make the playoffs in this conference. They obviously need Ranger Rick to return from whatever ailment he has. Richards needs to start playing. Maybe the flu he had in January bothered more than we thought. All of them need to play better except Hagelin. I had a dream this morning Kreider scored a big goal. Sam Rosen was yelling What a goal by Chris Kreider. Then my alarm went off.

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02-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #49
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Here is what has to happen...

Keep Tortorella. We came thisclose to the Stanley Cup finals last year. He definitely has a shelf life, but we are at least a year away from that, if not more. I do wish he would stop acting like such a jerk at press conferences, but it is what it is.

I do wish he would let the team open it up more. We have the Vezina Trophy goalie....he doesn't need to be protected like he's an egg shell. Let's see what the other goalie is capable of.

Gaborik has to play harder. Go to the 'mean' areas on the ice. Stop doing fly-by's around the net, and stopping when you get over the blue line.

Kreider has to play and keep playing...his 'defensive defincies' are not hurting us anymore than the mistakes guys like Callahan, Girardi, Stepan, Nash, Staal, and all of our other heroes make from time to time. His speed is a game changer.

Richards....I don't know. We'll hope for the best until we buy him out.

The power play needs a REAL quarterback...this one is on Sather. I never liked Richards for that role, even though so many people here said he was the answer to our power play woes when he was a free agent.

Stop playing painfully boring games....jeez, we could have won both of the last two games, but even if we did it's just not the kind of hockey I want to watch. I always make fun of Devil fans for winning Stanley Cups while they were killing hockey, and now we're just as bad.

Keep the faith....there are ebbs and flow in evey season, even shortened ones. Don't do anything crazy based on the last couple of games to rearrange what should still be a Stanley Cup contender.

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02-22-2013, 11:11 AM
  #50
Ail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers should be embarrassed to show their faces in Manhattan if they can't make the playoffs in this conference. They obviously need Ranger Rick to return from whatever ailment he has. Richards needs to start playing. Maybe the flu he had in January bothered more than we thought. All of them need to play better except Hagelin. I had a dream this morning Kreider scored a big goal. Sam Rosen was yelling What a goal by Chris Kreider. Then my alarm went off.
I had the same exact dream...






except that he was playing for the other team.

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