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Avalanche TV ratings on Altitude

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Old
02-22-2013, 12:55 AM
  #51
Av-merican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeslog View Post
Also, the cheap seats are cheaper
EXACTLY. If you make the tickets more affordable, you'll get the good ol' blue-collar fans you want, instead of a bunch of suits.

At least a few of my friends who are die-hard Avs fans look like they could double as roadies for a metal band. If they and others like them were able to afford tickets for more games I guarantee a louder, crazier atmosphere for Avalanche games.

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02-22-2013, 01:35 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Also, aren't there more seats when they convert The Can for basketball?
Basketball capacity is 19,155 and hockey is 18,007. That doesn't cover the 3,000/game difference.

Ticket prices though is a valid argument....It's really difficult to compare the two for the first rows in sections (hockey 1st row is high priced all around the rink, basketball less so unless you're on the court i.e. the side sections), but in the areas where the Avs vs Nuggets tickets are apples to apples (this assumes a season ticket price in 2013):



Interesting...Just another example to me though of Stan taking money from other assets and pumping them into the Nuggets. The Avalanche salaries for 2013 are sitting around $53M (capgeek) while the Nuggets are at $67M (HoopsHype). You'd expect the opposite, wouldn't you? This is the stuff that used to enrage me as a season ticket holder. I'll never buy Avs season tickets again until the numbers make sense. When you go to an Avs game you're essentially building the Nuggets. At least that's how it feels.

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02-22-2013, 05:52 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeslog View Post
Also, the cheap seats are cheaper
That's a big factor, as is the fact that the Nuggets have been the more successful franchise in recent years, getting to the playoffs on a consistent basis (and not doing much more, granted). It's surprising the attendance figures don't have a larger disparity, given we're comparing a perennial playoff team with cheaper tickets to a pricier ticket team that has had two lottery pick tank seasons and one playoff appearance in the last 4 years, without much optimism that success looms on the horizon. I suspect a similar run of mediocrity and ineptitude would have a greater detrimental impact on the Nuggets than it has for the Avs, ticket prices aside.

Of course the reason for this is past success. Even if people "jumped on the bandwagon" during the Sakic, Forsberg, Roy years, dedicated fans who still follow the Avs today were born of it.

Success is a huge factor. The town was over the moon for the Rockies during their World Series run. Then they crashed back to earth and resumed being a middling franchise, and they correspondingly faded back to public irrelevance.

The Avs would be a hot ticket pretty quickly if they generated sustained success again. But I still find it ethically objectionable that the Kroenke's insist on charging ticket prices as if this were still a franchise competing for the Cup every year yet they are unwilling to make a financial commitment to get them back to that level. I can understand fiscal restraint, but it should be reciprocated in what they make people pay to see their product.

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02-22-2013, 10:37 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Not sure about that--I've been to Nuggets and Avs games in recent years, and the energy levels are completely different.

Too often at Avs games (even when they were still a dominant NHL franchise) you get "fans" who only stand when the jumbotron tells them to. I remember going to an Avs game and this couple sat next to me. Any time I even bothered to raise my voice, they both looked at me like I was crazy. They just sat there the whole time like they were at a movie theatre. Every now and then I'm quite pleased when there are fans sitting near us who are actually loud and into the game.

Nuggets games, on the other hand, were always raucous affairs, and the place would EXPLODE after a big basket. Sure, fans cheer whenever the Avs scored, but it's just not the same.

Ticket prices and catering to corporate block sales make a big difference here. The Avs far too often ignore their very passionate fanbase or just plain price themselves out of those fans' price range. So instead you get doofuses who merely got their tickets as a gift from a company and don't know or don't really care about the game. That may be less of an Avalanche problem and more of an NHL problem, but I would (naively) hope that a fringe benefit of two lockouts would be more sensible ticket prices.
I agree that Avs marketing team is trash and it's front office is way to secretive for absolutely no reason what so ever. Also forgive me considering I was a baby during Nuggets golden years, but I don't think they have set the longest sellout streak in the NBA compared to the Avs. That is why if both teams had winning records, the fans would flock back to the Avs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
2013 Attendance:

Nuggets - 17,270 per game
Avalanche - 14,935 per game

It's not TV ratings, but it's obvious the Nuggets draw more than the Avs and I believe they're more popular in general in Denver. I'm definitely not a NBA fan but the numbers speak for themselves.
Nuggets are a decent young team (like the Senators) who just went on a fantastic winning streak. If I was Nugget's fan I would consider those attendance numbers pretty disappointing with just a 3k drop off to a rebuilding club who is like the ginger kid of Stan's family.

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02-22-2013, 01:04 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeslog View Post
Also, the cheap seats are cheaper
Illogical

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Old
02-22-2013, 01:23 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I agree that Avs marketing team is trash and it's front office is way to secretive for absolutely no reason what so ever. Also forgive me considering I was a baby during Nuggets golden years, but I don't think they have set the longest sellout streak in the NBA compared to the Avs. That is why if both teams had winning records, the fans would flock back to the Avs.




Nuggets are a decent young team (like the Senators) who just went on a fantastic winning streak. If I was Nugget's fan I would consider those attendance numbers pretty disappointing with just a 3k drop off to a rebuilding club who is like the ginger kid of Stan's family.

Avalanche were 8th in the league when they won the cup the 2nd time. 18,007 people on average. That's not even 100 more people than what the Nuggets are doing right now. Go back in time 10 years to when the Nuggets were 100x worse than the Avalanche is right now and thy were 20th in the league compared to the Avalanche's 27th, getting 200 or so more people a game. Nuggets were still 20th in the NBA while winning 17 games I believe too? The year before they got Melo? Getting a few hundred more people than the Avs are pulling right now.

Avalanche no doubt peaked higher than the Nuggets have. Finishing 8th one year is something the Nuggets never have, nor will ever do IMO. Basketball is also a far more popular sport in America tho and far harder to compete with. We Avalanche fans are pretty spoiled. Since they've came to Denver, we've been stacked with talent. Joe Sakic just isn't an All-Star, he's an All-Time great. Patrick Roy might be the best goalie of all time, Foppa? Hejduk winning the Richard trophy.

NBA doesn't have as much parody as the NHL, people know this. Nuggets have been out of the first round ONCE this entire decade. In the past 12 years, Nugs have made one playoff run and the city went crazy. One of the best stadiums the entire playoff runs. Nuggets are probably never going to do anything unless they eventually tank and land a superstar ...

IMO that's why the Nuggets are above the Avs in this town. They've had comparable or better numbers since '00 when the talent isn't anywhere close to the same. They are a far less successful of a franchise than the Avalanche, even if Stan is a ******.

Just feels like they are more known in Denver, just my opinion tho. I love all 3 and the Broncos are the powerhouse

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02-22-2013, 04:59 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverNATION View Post
Avalanche were 8th in the league when they won the cup the 2nd time. 18,007 people on average. That's not even 100 more people than what the Nuggets are doing right now. Go back in time 10 years to when the Nuggets were 100x worse than the Avalanche is right now and thy were 20th in the league compared to the Avalanche's 27th, getting 200 or so more people a game. Nuggets were still 20th in the NBA while winning 17 games I believe too? The year before they got Melo? Getting a few hundred more people than the Avs are pulling right now.

Avalanche no doubt peaked higher than the Nuggets have. Finishing 8th one year is something the Nuggets never have, nor will ever do IMO. Basketball is also a far more popular sport in America tho and far harder to compete with. We Avalanche fans are pretty spoiled. Since they've came to Denver, we've been stacked with talent. Joe Sakic just isn't an All-Star, he's an All-Time great. Patrick Roy might be the best goalie of all time, Foppa? Hejduk winning the Richard trophy.

NBA doesn't have as much parody as the NHL, people know this. Nuggets have been out of the first round ONCE this entire decade. In the past 12 years, Nugs have made one playoff run and the city went crazy. One of the best stadiums the entire playoff runs. Nuggets are probably never going to do anything unless they eventually tank and land a superstar ...

IMO that's why the Nuggets are above the Avs in this town. They've had comparable or better numbers since '00 when the talent isn't anywhere close to the same. They are a far less successful of a franchise than the Avalanche, even if Stan is a ******.

Just feels like they are more known in Denver, just my opinion tho. I love all 3 and the Broncos are the powerhouse
A fairly obvious flaw in your number crunching is the fact that you are not factoring in seating capacity. The Avs were ranked 8th in the league in 2001, but they were filling the arena to capacity (in the middle of a league record sellout streak). You seem to be making a big issue of the Nuggets getting close to that number now even though the seating capacity for basketball is 1000+ higher, and the Avs are unable to get a higher attendance than the 18,007 figure. Try looking at percentage of seating capacity filled and the Nuggets would be looking at 90% compared to 100% with the Avs at their peak.

Also you aren't factoring in the already raised issue of ticket prices. The Nuggets are still a more affordable ticket, and more so in the lean pre-Melo years. I've actually been to more Nuggets games than Avs games for that reason alone. (all things being equal I'd go to an Avs game 9 out of 10 times).

I do think more casual fans are drawn to basketball, but the disparity probably isn't that significant in Denver. Winning draws in more casual fans than anything.

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Old
02-22-2013, 07:27 PM
  #58
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Yeah I'm honestly not really "number" crunching, kinda just glancing over simple attendance statistics that are available on ESPN, for all I know there not even accurate as they are going back like 10 years.

Just think all things equal including talent, wins etc. the Nuggets would be the 2nd team, perhaps that's just because basketball is simply the more popular sport so like you said it appeals to the casual fans. I wrote alot and don't feel like re-reading but I believe I did say that the Avalanche did peak higher with the sell out records. Look at that roster tho. Bronco fans might give me **** but the best Denver core of All-Time is that Avalanche core IMO. I'm a huge fan of all 3 so no bias, give me Sakic/Foppa/Roy over Elway and co. Nuggets have what like Alex English? Deke? Carmelo? ... rolling with Ty Lawson and Gallo right now

Just my personal opinion, maybe I'm wrong and the Nuggets are distance 3rd. Just has never seemed that way to me besides those years with the Avs. I also don't believe no matter what teams wins anything that the Broncos will be dethroned. Nuggets/Avs could do whatever and they'd still be the talk of the city. NFL DOMINATES the US and Denver is big on football.

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02-22-2013, 07:52 PM
  #59
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That's an interesting debate - 1997/1998 Broncos or the Avs throughout the late 90's?

The Broncos won 2 in a row. Something no other team in Denver's done (maybe the ABA Nuggets, but I doubt it). The Avs were perennial contenders, although you could argue the Broncos had so-so consistency as well (I think they dipped maybe 1-2 years then came back strong). Those guys on the 97 and 98 Broncos were pretty dang good.

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