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Flames will need to go 22-11 to make the playoffs (.666 hockey)

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Old
02-21-2013, 10:45 AM
  #26
Sean Monahan
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Man I hope the people that sat around Ken King booed hard last night. So pathetic

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02-21-2013, 10:55 AM
  #27
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If Iginla is to be gone this season (which most of us agree is for the best), then he should be dealt earlier rather than the deadline.
The longer we keep him, the longer we stay in that midrange. Let him go to a contender, and have time to form chemistry on his new team. The only downside is not knowing right now which teams will be top contenders in a couple months.

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02-21-2013, 10:59 AM
  #28
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Bidding wars start near the deadline tho.

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02-21-2013, 11:00 AM
  #29
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It's been proven that teams don't need to tank to rebuild. We don't need to lose to rebuild. Of coarse drafting is important but so is developing those picks. The Flames HAVE rebuilt the devopmental and scouting.

Now it's time to turn the page with the product on the ice. Changed the coaching philosophy already so now it's players.

Last year when we lost players to injury our call-ups were the best players every game. They fought to stay in the line-up. Problem is there are only 1 or 2 spots to fight for right now. You can't expect Sven to blossom as a superstar if he plays in the 4th line with 4th line guys (see backlund, Boyd, Lombardi, etc)

We need to move Iggy for anything. We cannot re-sign him. Then we are stuck with relying on an aging vet to carry our team. We have to move Kipper because he has value to a contender. Or he can make a bubble team a contender. We have to move Cammy because he doesn't lead by example, he is small, and he seems to have lost a step. He doesn't score big goals and is also a liability injury wise. Plus he can also get us a decent return.

I am against moving Gio but will sacrifice the loss for a great return. But you must keep either him OR JBo. Not both.

The flames can trade those 4 players. Each of them can get you a wide variety of assets.

I mean remove production from those 4.....you can't get any worse than where we are today, right? In fact with the pieces you bring in we could be better with players fighting to stay on the roster.

Plus our cupboards get stocked with 3-4 first round picks in one season.

Then let GlenX, Tangs, the Czecks and our younger prospects run this fast paced hockey and try to add some real centers in FA or in the trades.

It's time, but we don't need to tank, we just need to move those 4 players (and 20mill in salary)

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02-21-2013, 11:06 AM
  #30
PKarey Plekoretty
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Was at the Dome last night, and I know I am a Habs fan and people won't be happy with me coming here to talk *****, but man that was a hard one to watch last night down there. The crowd was absolutely dead, and you can't blame them

Kings are a great team, so there is that, but man the puck possesion last night was just terrible for the Flames. Face offs as well

With the draft being as deep as it is this year, it would be a great year to snag a top 3 pick. Would be awesome to see Mackinnon/Jones/Drouin at the Dome next year

And you have to wonder, if management has the brains and balls to do it, what could the Flames get in return for any or all of Iggy, Kipper, J-Bou?

Trade those guys, get picks/prospects, combine that with a high pick in this draft, then with guys like Baertschi and Backlund coming along, and Gaudreau etc in the system, it could be a relatively quick turn around for the Flames. Certainly faster than the current path management is on

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02-21-2013, 11:10 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Bidding wars start near the deadline tho.
I've said this before, from my standpoint I could care less about bidding wars. I just want a good fit for both teams. If it makes sence let's do it, not hold out and trade him later to a lesser team all for an extra draft pick.

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02-21-2013, 11:16 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
It's been proven that teams don't need to tank to rebuild. We don't need to lose to rebuild. Of coarse drafting is important but so is developing those picks. The Flames HAVE rebuilt the devopmental and scouting.

Now it's time to turn the page with the product on the ice. Changed the coaching philosophy already so now it's players.

Last year when we lost players to injury our call-ups were the best players every game. They fought to stay in the line-up. Problem is there are only 1 or 2 spots to fight for right now. You can't expect Sven to blossom as a superstar if he plays in the 4th line with 4th line guys (see backlund, Boyd, Lombardi, etc)

We need to move Iggy for anything. We cannot re-sign him. Then we are stuck with relying on an aging vet to carry our team. We have to move Kipper because he has value to a contender. Or he can make a bubble team a contender. We have to move Cammy because he doesn't lead by example, he is small, and he seems to have lost a step. He doesn't score big goals and is also a liability injury wise. Plus he can also get us a decent return.

I am against moving Gio but will sacrifice the loss for a great return. But you must keep either him OR JBo. Not both.

The flames can trade those 4 players. Each of them can get you a wide variety of assets.

I mean remove production from those 4.....you can't get any worse than where we are today, right? In fact with the pieces you bring in we could be better with players fighting to stay on the roster.

Plus our cupboards get stocked with 3-4 first round picks in one season.

Then let GlenX, Tangs, the Czecks and our younger prospects run this fast paced hockey and try to add some real centers in FA or in the trades.

It's time, but we don't need to tank, we just need to move those 4 players (and 20mill in salary)
I don't think our management staff has proven a rebuilt drafting and development system. I looks better on paper, sure, but proof is in the pudding. Until Gaudrea, Brossoit, Reinhart, etc. actually pan out as projected, how do you know it's working?

And then examine the development side. What's going on with Irving? Why was Baerstchi on the 4th line?

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02-21-2013, 11:47 AM
  #33
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I don't think our management staff has proven a rebuilt drafting and development system. I looks better on paper, sure, but proof is in the pudding. Until Gaudrea, Brossoit, Reinhart, etc. actually pan out as projected, how do you know it's working?

And then examine the development side. What's going on with Irving? Why was Baerstchi on the 4th line?
I answered your questions. With all this 'talent' on our top six (Iggy, Tangs, Cammy, Hudler, etc) you don't have room for Baertschi. That's why Iggy and Cammy have to go.

As for Irving, we have a top 5 goalie. Nuff said. And Troy ward is not to blame for Irving not playing in the AHL. To breed winners you need a winning team. If Tayor or Brust give u a better shot at winning, they play. You cannot sacrifice an entire lineup of prospects development on one goalie prospect. You can't blame anyone but Kipper really we have a borderline playoff team that relies on his play to get us there.

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02-21-2013, 12:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
I answered your questions. With all this 'talent' on our top six (Iggy, Tangs, Cammy, Hudler, etc) you don't have room for Baertschi. That's why Iggy and Cammy have to go.

As for Irving, we have a top 5 goalie. Nuff said. And Troy ward is not to blame for Irving not playing in the AHL. To breed winners you need a winning team. If Tayor or Brust give u a better shot at winning, they play. You cannot sacrifice an entire lineup of prospects development on one goalie prospect. You can't blame anyone but Kipper really we have a borderline playoff team that relies on his play to get us there.
I completely disagree. Baerstchi brought more energy than Cammy to start the season, perhaps even Iginla, so if we're going to use the "winning" argument, Baerstchi in the top 9 gave us a better opportunity to win than some other people.

And regarding Irving, all I ask is this: How do we know Irving wasn't our best chance at winning? I ask because I'm pretty sure he played lights out the season before last and carried the Heat. He didn't have enough crease time last year to prove he wasn't the best option.

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02-21-2013, 12:46 PM
  #35
Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Remember that King is an expert at talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Of course they didn't invest $80 million for him to win somewhere else and want him to help the Flames win. This tells me at least one thing - he's not going to walk away at UFA for nothing, and that by the deadline if there's no agreement on a contact extension Iginla is as good as gone.


Missing the playoffs year after year will start to drive the fans away, and the team will start losing significant money again. Prior to the "young guns" era, it took six first round exits and another 3-4 years of missing the playoffs before this team got into serious trouble with a disinterested fan base. Guess what? We're almost there now. I suspect that the waiting list for season tickets is starting to get shorter. I know the casual Flames fan (between the lockout and underwhelming performances) doesn't care anymore.

If ownership cares about making money, they need to be concerned about having a competitive team.

Or maybe this is the "blow it up" rebuild that everyone's been clamouring for? Lose a bunch of games, but under the guise of "being competitive" under the watch of Feaster & Hartley (aka: the scapegoats)
Excellent post Stewie! Send this in an email to Ken King please!

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02-21-2013, 01:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I completely disagree. Baerstchi brought more energy than Cammy to start the season, perhaps even Iginla, so if we're going to use the "winning" argument, Baerstchi in the top 9 gave us a better opportunity to win than some other people.

And regarding Irving, all I ask is this: How do we know Irving wasn't our best chance at winning? I ask because I'm pretty sure he played lights out the season before last and carried the Heat. He didn't have enough crease time last year to prove he wasn't the best option.
You misunderstood or I didn't articulate properly. I'm talking a winning atmosphere in the AHL.

No flames coach, GM, owner would ever sit a $6million player and give that spot to a Horak, Baertschi, backlund. I agree, Cammy Iggy etc havnt gotten the job done and Sven, Horak have brought more energy and skill in their time on top 9 roles.

My argument is: if you cannot give our prospects top 6 minutes at NHL level because of our current lineup, you do it at the AHL level with the goalie that can win you games. If our current lineup is not getting the job done, you move the pieces that can give us a high return and then give our prospects a chance at the NHL level.

Irving - I liked his play. I am a firm believer that our team sucks in front of anyone but kipper. We need to change that. We won't have kipper much longer. I think Irving/Ramo could potentially be a great tandom. Combined they may not be as good as kipper is, but we don't know that. This is our first time in almost a decade of having to play without him. The results are poor. It's kippers fault that Irving hasn't been given a chance at this level. He was lights out last year. Because he was the go to guy. This year, not so much.

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02-21-2013, 02:35 PM
  #37
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Excellent post Stewie! Send this in an email to Ken King please!
This. Someone needs to send an email to Ken King telling him we cannot win with this core of players.

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02-21-2013, 02:58 PM
  #38
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I hope we get better 5,6 defenseman. Butler, Sarich and Smith are brutal.

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02-21-2013, 03:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Gord Miller at the end of tonight's broadcast (vs L.A.) said the Flames will need to go 22-11 the rest of the way to make the playoffs. That's a .666% clip! Good night nurse.

I know the Satanic implication is always enticing, but it should be .667.

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02-21-2013, 03:30 PM
  #40
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I hope we get better 5,6 defenseman. Butler, Sarich and Smith are brutal.
I don't mind Butler - Smith but every other combinations has been real bad.

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02-21-2013, 03:34 PM
  #41
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This. Someone needs to send an email to Ken King telling him we cannot win with this core of players.
I don't think that King or the owner's care what a few die hard fans think, they are still making money hand over fist. Did you see last game people were leaving the stands as they were disgusted with the game and then they would stop at the gift shop on the way out. As long as the team is one of the more profitable teams we won't see a change.

The only way we rebuild is if Iggy walks and Kipper leaves then this team will be forced into sucking and getting high picks, it isn't going to be pretty or fun but it is most likely what we will see.

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02-21-2013, 04:57 PM
  #42
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I hope we get better 5,6 defenseman. Butler, Sarich and Smith are brutal.
We need an actual 1st line.

I dont think any of our players crack a playoff teams top line. MAYBE Iginla.

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02-22-2013, 08:04 AM
  #43
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Here's my two cents: if the plan is to move Iginla then King is saying the right things. If the other GM's believe that you're happy to keep him then they'll have to overpay to get him out of Calgary. On the other hand, if they know you want to move him then they don't have to pay top-dollar, they just need to pay more than the next guy in line.

At this point, I don't think that Iginla is "on the block" to be sold to the highest bidder but rather can be available if the right offer comes along.

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02-22-2013, 09:59 AM
  #44
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Here's my two cents: if the plan is to move Iginla then King is saying the right things. If the other GM's believe that you're happy to keep him then they'll have to overpay to get him out of Calgary. On the other hand, if they know you want to move him then they don't have to pay top-dollar, they just need to pay more than the next guy in line.

At this point, I don't think that Iginla is "on the block" to be sold to the highest bidder but rather can be available if the right offer comes along.
I was thinking about something like this too. Ownership has always said they are not going to move Iggy because they simply believed that they are a playoff team or are really close to one. They should realize if we are really out of it, that we are not a playoff team and at that point they should be open to the idea of trading Iginla. Can we really expect them to say that they are open to trade Iginla if they are out of it? It will only distract Iggy and possibly the team (It probably still is).. Lets face it, Iggy is holding the stick a little too tight. Sure he's setting up all kinds of goals but you can tell he's having trouble finishing.. He even missed the empty net when Dallas pulled their goalie. I don't know exactly if he is distracted by his pending UFA status but it definitely must have an impact if he's uncertain about his future in Calgary.

Bottom line, if we continue to stay at the bottom of the standings we could very well see Iginla being traded at the deadline. If there was absolutely no chance, why didn't he sign an extension yet. Look at Sutter a couple years back when he said his team is good the way it is and he won't be making any big trades. He ended up trading for both Jokinen and Leopold. I believe regardless of what management says that they are not trading Iginla, it can still very much happen and we can't listen to every word the owners say because they are only saying this to avoid distractions in the dressing room. Now im not saying thats its guaranteed he will be traded but I personally think that this is the year. 4 years is enough to realize that a change is needed and we'll find out soon enough by april 5 where this team is headed.

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02-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
If Iginla is to be gone this season (which most of us agree is for the best), then he should be dealt earlier rather than the deadline.
The longer we keep him, the longer we stay in that midrange. Let him go to a contender, and have time to form chemistry on his new team. The only downside is not knowing right now which teams will be top contenders in a couple months.
Some of them (Pittsburgh, St Louis, Boston) are locks to be in serious contention at this point, and Pit/Bos are the two teams I'd most like to see him go to.

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02-22-2013, 10:48 AM
  #46
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Here's my two cents: if the plan is to move Iginla then King is saying the right things. If the other GM's believe that you're happy to keep him then they'll have to overpay to get him out of Calgary. On the other hand, if they know you want to move him then they don't have to pay top-dollar, they just need to pay more than the next guy in line.

At this point, I don't think that Iginla is "on the block" to be sold to the highest bidder but rather can be available if the right offer comes along.
Isnt that the Gm's job and not Ken king's?

Once again... who is running this team?

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02-22-2013, 11:02 AM
  #47
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Isnt that the Gm's job and not Ken king's?

Once again... who is running this team?
I think it's everyone's job to ensure that a consistent message is being delivered, no?

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02-22-2013, 11:34 AM
  #48
Janks
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Isnt that the Gm's job and not Ken king's?

Once again... who is running this team?
Simply put, a combination of iggy and the coach du jour.

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02-22-2013, 11:43 AM
  #49
SmellOfVictory
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Originally Posted by berto14 View Post
I think it's everyone's job to ensure that a consistent message is being delivered, no?
Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Isnt that the Gm's job and not Ken king's?

Once again... who is running this team?
Ownership. Yes, the GM is tasked with running the team in theory (and for the most part, in practice) but ownership has the final say and absolutely has the option of telling the GM what to do. Ownership is the reason that Richards and Carter were traded from Philadelphia, for example.

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02-22-2013, 12:24 PM
  #50
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On the bright side.. If there ever was a season where we could bottom out quickly, grab a young impact player and recover, it's this one.. If that means trading Iggy than so be it. He deserves a cup..
Not many (even very high) draft picks make much of an impact to their team immediately after getting drafted. Even guys like Yakabov need time to settle in. The Sedins took an extra year in Sweden before they even played for the Canucks, and 3 more years after that, before they were #1 line players.

And the Flames are more than 1 player from "recoverying".

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